Another sad story of a hit and run incident

[Goose]

Well I did say "I can't recall". At age 61 I do have a mild case of CRS (Can't Remember Stuff) Disease. I learned back east - Vermont and a couple of small areas in the Berkshires. I am sure there were close calls on the "boiler plate overcrowded small zoos" .

Been skiing the west since moving to California in 1982. I was an instructor for a few years so learned to not ski on holidays. Have always had a flexible work schedule so have avoided weekends at the busy resorts.

These days I am on replacement body parts (both hips). This has made me more a lot more cautious and increased my awareness, funny how that works!

Goose, I defer to your opinions as you are in the trenches and I am a ski snob. I only go when there is good snow, fewer people and reasonable weather. Hence my username - every run from here on out is a bonus run!

hahaha....very nice lol sounds so very great..... except for the aging part and body parts what can ya do?
Yes Im jealous of your ski snobiness and I hope youll have that snobiness for more decades.

 

[James]

Mid week mountains (East) are completely different. As are many of the people.
I’ve skied with a mid-weeker so set in their ways that in 30 years they had never set foot in this mid mountain lodge. It’s just basic too,nothing fancy. But it was not in the routine.

 

[Guy in Shorts]

My perfect record ended today on Lower Superstar as a snowboarder took me out from behind. I head a good head of steam carving the smooth surface under the snow guns. Out of control boarder bouncing on his backside swept my legs right out from under me. No injuries as I still can bounce. Over two thousand ski days of never having a collision wiped out in a second.

 

[LiquidFeet]

^^So sorry you had to endure this incident, and so glad you are whole afterwards. The ski gods were with you, @Guy in Shorts. How's the kid?

 

[Guy in Shorts]

^^So sorry you had to endure this incident, and so glad you are whole afterwards. The ski gods were with you, @Guy in Shorts. How's the kid?

He was fine. Surprised me that someone was moving faster down the steep section but I was carving. Very lucky for all. Kid apologized and asked if I was OK.

 

[Brad J]

My perfect record ended today on Lower Superstar as a snowboarder took me out from behind. I head a good head of steam carving the smooth surface under the snow guns. Out of control boarder bouncing on his backside swept my legs right out from under me. No injuries as I still can bounce. Over two thousand ski days of never having a collision wiped out in a second.

Glad you were ok, I also had my first collision in 60 years, It was New Years day , Couldn't even blame it on 2020

 

[Goose]

Mid week mountains (East) are completely different. As are many of the people.
I’ve skied with a mid-weeker so set in their ways that in 30 years they had never set foot in this mid mountain lodge. It’s just basic too,nothing fancy. But it was not in the routine.

Oh yea, its a measurable degree more of a pleasant day over all in non peak times ..."Usually" lol we hope.. But we make do and enjoy best we can even if on weekend . Its usually all ive got so it Is what it is. WEe try and ya just be careful of the crowd and speed demons.
Just too bad I havnt tried this covid year yet. But I got the serious itching.

 

[Goose]

Fwiw you folks who mention speed demons are correct. So I just completed two days in probably the best conditions we cna ever have for the Poconos. And I was up both days at just about first chairs. This thread came to my mind for a couple reasons.

It came to my mind as I watched a enough percentage of speed demons fly incredibly fast like nobodies business. And even as the capacity increased there is simply no slowing down for those folks. Its all in or nothing at all. Dont care who is on the slope nor how many folks nor how much room there is. Its just balls to the wall like they are on the streif downhill. And sure some of them darn good skiers while others just flying fast but no real skiing and barely even turning at all. Either way it really got me thinking about this thread as to how dangerous they are being.

 

[Goose]

The other thing got me thinking about this thread relates the uphill skier givung a friendly shout "ON YOUR RIGHT, ON YOUR RIGHT"

Sorry...its a long story but in order to visualize the whole picture.

I know that (giving a shout) is a courteous thing in some regards but some folks take it to mean that because they say it, they then have the right to move you. So here is what happened to me today.

So Im skiing down on the right edge of the run making nice turns about half way down. Varying my turn radius from smaller to medium depending on the slope grade but always coming back to the right edge of the run and never straying far at all from the right edge.

And so at one point after many minutes of continued skiing a make one of my normal left turns away from the right edge. Skiing well and somewhat steep my legs are really beginning to tire (I gained a lot of weight lol ) and at this point Im thinking when ill need to stop and rest for a moment. I always of course (whenever stopping) do it at the very edge.

So as i turn away from the edge towards center (via my normal left turn) Im now with the anticipation that I will turn back right and then stop when I get to the edge again. But I hear a woman say ..."on your right, on your right" ... And so with that info instead of turning back towards the edge like planned and like I normally was doing the entire time I instead maintain and intentionally head even further left towards the center. . But Im tired and I now have to not only look uphill to make sure no one else was coming down from further left but also now I of course dont want to stop in the center of a run. So i have to struggle with my tired legs to make it back over to the edge and also make sure no one was behind her. It was a f'ed up situation because not only was a tiring and readying to stop but as i went further left I ended up in some bumpier terrain that my tired legs couldnt take. lets just say the entire little episode was ridiculous.

She had no right to squeeze through my right side when i was Cleary skiing from the right edge the whole time prior. She acted as though her notification gave her right of way to move me over. But what she did was place me in harm's way. She caused me to leave my lane and with tired legs head further towards center , deal with a bit harder conditions my legs were not up for at the moment as well as make me look uphill to see if anyone was coming left and also look up again before heading back right and to the edge once she passed as I really needed to stop for a rest.

I was pissed because she acted as though yelling out gave her right of way to squeeze me over towards center so she can take over the lane I was in. I should have maintained my right edge lane but I was concerned of collision. I was so angry afterwards because where/when did blurting out "ON YOUR RIGHT" ever mean you have the right of way to push the downhill skier out of your way? thats not the correct intent for a warning. Not when the person your passing is already occupying the edge you wish to squeeze through.

She should have turned left and passed me from much further towards center of run. She was a good skier too and she clearly had control to do that. But All i heard was a "ON YOUR RIGHT" and at that second have no clue who is coming so I naturally headed left. But it placed me in harms way and caused some obstacles for me to endure.

That was real bad ski code on her part. I was actually semi looking at bottom just to (hopefully in a friendly way) discuss it with her. But she must have hit a different lift.

 

[François Pugh]

I always assume the skier turning towards the edge WILL use up all the available space.

I have also quit mind reading while skiing. I was once overtaking a slower skier making turns on the left side of the run while I made turns on the right side. We made eye contact as we approached each other a few times. The look he gave me was clearly, " Yes, I am going to continue making turns on my side of the run. Go ahead and pass on your side."
Maybe it was his accent, his look actually said, " I dare you to try and pass; I have 100 lbs on you, and you will regret it if you do."
Quick reflexes saved me at the last fraction of a second. Prior to that I never imagined anyone would deliberately collide with anyone on skis. I didn't even realize that's what happened until days later. Since then I have heard of some deliberate collisions.

 

[Goose]

I always assume the skier turning towards the edge WILL use up all the available space..

especially when I am skiing the edge for 100's of yards continuously on a highly visible run. Why or how would she even consider what she did? IDK

 

[no edge]

I was overtaking a skier who was on the right side of the trail - center. He was in control and going right along. His path had left me plenty of room and I was skiing faster but in control. As I came nearer he changed radius and headed toward my direction. I was 4 feet from the edge and didn't have much room to work with so I called out very loudly... on your right. Plenty of time for him to change directions but no reaction. He kept coming. Yelled twice more and dumped speed. In the end I reached with my pole and whacked his pole. Then he turned.

He stopped and we spoke at the next trail head. He was friendly and joked about me whacking him with the pole. He was wearing ear buds.

It is my pattern, skiing the edge of the trail. I like the snow and the type of line that is often found there. But other skiers do tend to cut-off the line when they stop. There are different attitudes about leaving room for skiers who hug the tree line. Northern Vt is an example.

 

[tch]

^^^ ....and another example of someone who is wrong but feels aggrieved. REGARDLESS of where the downhill skier was, you have the obligation to give way. It doesn't matter if you are skiing the treeline without a lot of room there and he is wandering in and out of that line. You are required to yield to the downhill skier. It was not his responsibility to change directions. There may be different "attitudes" about leaving room for skiers who hug the tree line -- but there is no room for interpretation in the Skiers Code.

Just because you wanna ski there and other folks agree with your view doesn't mean you can supercede the rules of the road.

 

[Nathanvg]

The other thing got me thinking about this thread relates the uphill skier givung a friendly shout "ON YOUR RIGHT, ON YOUR RIGHT"

Sorry...its a long story but in order to visualize the whole picture.

I know that (giving a shout) is a courteous thing in some regards but some folks take it to mean that because they say it, they then have the right to move you. So here is what happened to me today.

So Im skiing down on the right edge of the run making nice turns about half way down. Varying my turn radius from smaller to medium depending on the slope grade but always coming back to the right edge of the run and never straying far at all from the right edge.

And so at one point after many minutes of continued skiing a make one of my normal left turns away from the right edge. Skiing well and somewhat steep my legs are really beginning to tire (I gained a lot of weight lol ) and at this point Im thinking when ill need to stop and rest for a moment. I always of course (whenever stopping) do it at the very edge.

So as i turn away from the edge towards center (via my normal left turn) Im now with the anticipation that I will turn back right and then stop when I get to the edge again. But I hear a woman say ..."on your right, on your right" ... And so with that info instead of turning back towards the edge like planned and like I normally was doing the entire time I instead maintain and intentionally head even further left towards the center. . But Im tired and I now have to not only look uphill to make sure no one else was coming down from further left but also now I of course dont want to stop in the center of a run. So i have to struggle with my tired legs to make it back over to the edge and also make sure no one was behind her. It was a f'ed up situation because not only was a tiring and readying to stop but as i went further left I ended up in some bumpier terrain that my tired legs couldnt take. lets just say the entire little episode was ridiculous.

She had no right to squeeze through my right side when i was Cleary skiing from the right edge the whole time prior. She acted as though her notification gave her right of way to move me over. But what she did was place me in harm's way. She caused me to leave my lane and with tired legs head further towards center , deal with a bit harder conditions my legs were not up for at the moment as well as make me look uphill to see if anyone was coming left and also look up again before heading back right and to the edge once she passed as I really needed to stop for a rest.

I was pissed because she acted as though yelling out gave her right of way to squeeze me over towards center so she can take over the lane I was in. I should have maintained my right edge lane but I was concerned of collision. I was so angry afterwards because where/when did blurting out "ON YOUR RIGHT" ever mean you have the right of way to push the downhill skier out of your way? thats not the correct intent for a warning. Not when the person your passing is already occupying the edge you wish to squeeze through.

She should have turned left and passed me from much further towards center of run. She was a good skier too and she clearly had control to do that. But All i heard was a "ON YOUR RIGHT" and at that second have no clue who is coming so I naturally headed left. But it placed me in harms way and caused some obstacles for me to endure.

That was real bad ski code on her part. I was actually semi looking at bottom just to (hopefully in a friendly way) discuss it with her. But she must have hit a different lift.

I guess I'm a fan of limited use of "on your right." I'd never do it in the middle of the run and as the overtaking skier, I'd be responsible for passing safely and if something unexpected occurred, I'd put on the breaks or fine some other way to keep a safe distance. If it's impossible to abort the pass safely, I don't pass.

It's also important to emphasize that the pass doesn't stop when I'm one foot downhill but rather when I'm quite a ways down so that the passed skier can see me and knows I'm there. Starting a pass and then skiing parallel or slightly downhill is a very dangerous situations. Passing then stopping or cutting right in front of the passed skier is a jerk move.

A couple examples of when I use the "on your right"
1. Passing a stopped skier on a traverse so they don't start skiing right as I pass (You really shouldn't stop directly on a traverse)
2. A narrow busy cat track where everyone is gliding. 99% of the time everyone will keep gliding but sometimes someone will decide to cut across to access a run, slow down or do a jump. I'd like to avoid slowing down since that will cause issues with those behind me and I'd like to help the skiers in front make an informed decision. I won't count on them hearing me and I'm more likely to use the poll tap than "on your right" in this situations.

I'll sometimes say something like, "please don't stop in the middle of a traverse" or "your not visible from above" to a kid sitting below a lip. I try to error on being friendly over being a know-it-all.

 

[no edge]

....It doesn't matter if you are skiing the treeline without a lot of room there and he is wandering in and out of that line.

Well you are correct and I humbly accept that. This was a wide trail - maybe 75' and the skier was not wandering. He was skiing well and making consistent turns in the middle of the trail. He was a good skier. I was moving quickly but not that fast. He made a sweeping turn towards the side of the trail that I was skiing. It does matter he had the right of way. I was skiing fast enough to get past him but I didn't want to chance it. I do yell to let the other skier to let them know I am near. I was able to slow down but clicked poles in order to not be driven into the woods.


[/QUOTE]

I guess I'm a fan of limited use of "on your right." I'd never do it in the middle of the run and as the overtaking skier, I'd be responsible for passing safely and if something unexpected occurred, I'd put on the breaks or fine some other way to keep a safe distance. If it's impossible to abort the pass safely, I don't pass.



A couple examples of when I use the "on your right"
1. Passing a stopped skier on a traverse so they don't start skiing right as I pass (You really shouldn't stop directly on a traverse)
2. A narrow busy cat track where everyone is gliding. 99% of the time everyone will keep gliding but sometimes someone will decide to cut across to access a run, slow down or do a jump. I'd like to avoid slowing down since that will cause issues with those behind me and I'd like to help the skiers in front make an informed decision. I won't count on them hearing me and I'm more likely to use the poll tap than "on your right" in this situations.

I'll sometimes say something like, "please don't stop in the middle of a traverse" or "your not visible from above" to a kid sitting below a lip. I try to error on being friendly over being a know-it-all.

I use "on your right" any time I believe it should be used. I talk to other skiers in snug situations in order to show my direction and intentions - especially on steep chutes when a skier is stopped. When facing another skier at a trail merger or cross, I will make eye contact and point my direction. I know it can be less than ideal when a skier stops on a traverse, but I would not tell another skier when they can stop.

 

[SkiVt]

The “ on your right “ has been used for as long as I can remember and I have never heard of any problems with it , of course it’s done in a safe manor.
people should really stop skiing and take a break if they feel too tired to ski safely for their own good and for others as well

 

[Goose]

The “ on your right “ has been used for as long as I can remember and I have never heard of any problems with it , of course it’s done in a safe manor.
people should really stop skiing and take a break if they feel too tired to ski safely for their own good and for others as well

IMo the warning is not an issue at all. Its actually a good thing. "IF" and when used correctly and for the correct intent.

But where its wrong is when (like in my case) the warning was used as a means to move the downhill skier out of the line he was already occupying just so you can take over and pass in that same line. Thats not the correct intent of the warning. Thats abuse of the code and of the warning.

As for stopping due to tired or burning leg muscles?
Being too exhausted to ski safely is a whole different thing from needing to stop to rest the legs or whatever.
Are you suggesting that everyone whos legs and or body are not able to go top to bottom in one continuous shot should not be out there and should take a rest at the lodge?
If that is what your suggesting that would be the most ridiculous thing Ive ever heard for a slew of reasons. I hope thats not what you meant.

 

[Goose]

Well you are correct and I humbly accept that. This was a wide trail - maybe 75' and the skier was not wandering. He was skiing well and making consistent turns in the middle of the trail. He was a good skier. I was moving quickly but not that fast. He made a sweeping turn towards the side of the trail that I was skiing. It does matter he had the right of way. I was skiing fast enough to get past him but I didn't want to chance it. I do yell to let the other skier to let them know I am near. I was able to slow down but clicked poles in order to not be driven into the woods.

I thought you painted a pretty good picture. The other skier was not in your lane but was over with more than enough room. But then he came your way and so you gave the shout out. I dont think in your case you used the warning with any entitled righteous intent the way the person did to me in my scenario, nor imo did you do anything so incorrectly as long as the space between his existing line and your line offered significant and safe enough room for passing.

Unfortunately had you collided it still would technically been your fault as the uphill skier even though he should have peaked uphill before making such a significant lane change over to your side.
It just is what it is,
If I were to change lanes significantly over and you were coming down a tad faster I would feel I needed to look and wouldnt be so blaming you badly but still the code is what it is cause the uphill skier always needs to take responsibility in most cases.

 

[no edge]

I agree.

 

[thumps]

I heard today that Betty is recovering well, but the search for the boy continues.