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Attention Luddites: No More Mech Dura-Ace!

Jersey Skier

aka RatherPlayThanWork or Gary
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Dakine

Far Out
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Can ABS be far behind?
I'm a motorcycle guy and I have learned to hate all the electronics on modern motorcycles.
Ya, they really work and will allow mere mortals to not kill themselves with 200 hp.
And yes, at the Moto GP level they allow the best riders in the world to do incredible stuff.
But when they fail the cost of repair is usually astronomical and they will become unrepairable after a few years for lack of parts.
The vintage car world is already running into this problem where really cool cars remain parked and worthless for want of a chip or sensor.
Besides, I need yet another battery that needs charging in my life like I need a hole in myhead.
 

scott43

So much better than a pro
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I'm a bit torn on this. I'm not a Luddite really, but I've been around bikes long enough to understand what's cost effective and what works and what's frills. Timely..I just read an article last night on the death of aluminum frames with rim brakes and mechanical shifting. Basically, we will only have discs and electronic shifting in a very very short period of time. And anything with mechanical will be relegated to the very cheap price point. So for a somewhat rational person, what will the options be for a decent mid-level bike? Am I going to be forced into discs and electronic shifting? I can get a pretty decent road bike for $1500 right now. Does that jump to $4k? Who does that benefit? And the gist of the article was not a flight of fancy..basically, makers build what people want. And based on the number of $8k bikes I see riding around, maybe that's a normal thing. Personally, I hope Campy keeps making mechanical shifting and rim brakes. And hopefully at least 105 level in Shimano. However..I think the writing is on the wall..even if it's mechanical discs it will still be discs.
 
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TS
Tom K.

Tom K.

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If you can't get Di2 and AXS to shift better than your mechanical Ultegra, you're doing something wrong.

Nope, rear is comparable, but front mech Ultegra is slightly superior to Di2 and AXS.

The Di2 is perhaps arguable, but not AXS.

Though in my experience and opinion, no SRAM drivetrain of any kind will ever shift with the fluid beauty of Shimano.
 
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TS
Tom K.

Tom K.

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I'm a motorcycle guy and I have learned to hate all the electronics on modern motorcycles.

My brother!

This is why I'm waiting patiently (sort of) for a new Tenere 700. I've been a KTM dirt bike guy forever, but their ADV bikes have too much electronic crapola.
 

cantunamunch

Meh
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.basically, makers build what people want. And based on the number of $8k bikes I see riding around, maybe that's a normal thing.

I don't think that's actually what is going on. I think we are seeing a missing middle problem. Just like in housing.





Premium bikes are playing the part of single family homes. US$300-$700 hybrids are playing the part of mushroom suburban condos.

The point of my drawing the parallel here is that missing middle situations are NOT created by actual purchasing customer wants, but by what everyone else wants. The market is distorted, on both the supply and expectation sides.

And - resenting being jacked into choices that are not what they had in mind doesn't make the customer a Luddite.
 
Last edited:

cantunamunch

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But when they fail the cost of repair is usually astronomical and they will become unrepairable after a few years for lack of parts.

Absolutely. Just wait for when this happens with e-bikes.

(Another example of providing what the customer doesn't want - and the proof is unsaleable e-bikes in shops lingering for years - during Covid!)
 

Dakine

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My brother!

This is why I'm waiting patiently (sort of) for a new Tenere 700. I've been a KTM dirt bike guy forever, but their ADV bikes have too much electronic crapola.

Don't need no stinkin' electronics.
No ABS.
No IMU.
No speed restriction.
172 rwhp.
IMG_0856.JPG
 

Bill Talbot

Vintage Gear Curator
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New England
I'm a bit torn on this. I'm not a Luddite really, but I've been around bikes long enough to understand what's cost effective and what works and what's frills. Timely..I just read an article last night on the death of aluminum frames with rim brakes and mechanical shifting. Basically, we will only have discs and electronic shifting in a very very short period of time. And anything with mechanical will be relegated to the very cheap price point. So for a somewhat rational person, what will the options be for a decent mid-level bike? Am I going to be forced into discs and electronic shifting? I can get a pretty decent road bike for $1500 right now. Does that jump to $4k? Who does that benefit? And the gist of the article was not a flight of fancy..basically, makers build what people want. And based on the number of $8k bikes I see riding around, maybe that's a normal thing. Personally, I hope Campy keeps making mechanical shifting and rim brakes. And hopefully at least 105 level in Shimano. However..I think the writing is on the wall..even if it's mechanical discs it will still be discs.

There are an almost limitless number of barely used bikes from the 80's, 90's and beyond that can be bought for reasonable dollars if you are patient and know what you're looking at. I have very rarely bought new over the years. And that time is over.
 

scott43

So much better than a pro
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Nov 12, 2015
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I don't think that's actually what is going on. I think we are seeing a missing middle problem. Just like in housing.

Premium bikes are playing the part of single family homes. US$300-$700 hybrids are playing the part of mushroom suburban condos.

The point of my drawing the parallel here is that missing middle situations are NOT created by actual purchasing customer wants, but by what everyone else wants. The market is distorted, on both the supply and expectation sides.

And - resenting being jacked into choices that are not what they had in mind doesn't make the customer a Luddite.
So I'm glad it's not just me that sees it this way. There IS a market between Huffy and Carbon. It's like the full suspension MTB debate. I like MTB'ing, but I don't $6k bike like it. I like it at $2k bike. And if I can't get something at $2k that I can race MTB on, I just won't buy. It IS possible to ride MTB on a hardtail..and use it as a gravel bike..and a commuter. I love progress..but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water..
 

cantunamunch

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I never understood that with SRAM. You're now operating both up and downshifts with the same digit..no chance for failure there! Ugh.

I strongly suspect that someone, somewhere, was designing around a set of patent claims.

That said - unintended consequence - herself actually prefers SRAM for this reason; Shimano makes her hand hurt on longer, jouncier rides. :huh:
 

Jersey Skier

aka RatherPlayThanWork or Gary
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Absolutely. Just wait for when this happens with e-bikes.

(Another example of providing what the customer doesn't want - and the proof is unsaleable e-bikes in shops lingering for years - during Covid!)

Where exactly are you? I can't get, nor keep E-bikes in stock regardless of the price. Since the lockdown I've sold as many $$$ in E-bikes as any other category. Though, that was all I could get for a while.

My phone rings constantly with people searching for E-bikes. Way more than people looking for a road bike.
 

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