Boot flex and too tight?

[mxracer317]

Started skiing when I was 2 years old and made the grievous sin of switching to snowboarding when I was 14. That was 25 years ago, and I finally realized the errors of my ways. LOL

I was able to get back on the blue's no problem and have been doing a few black diamond's. It's like riding a bike!

Anyways, I bought some Rossi all-speed pro's in 110 based on the shop's recommendation. My foot was moving around in the boot and couldn't figure out why until I went to a boot fitter, Inkline in SLC. Apparently, I have narrow feet and needed a low volume boot.

... bought the 2019 Salomon S/Max 120 based on the boot fitters recommendations. These guys are HIGHLY reviewed. But I have some concerns based off my inexperience.

Here are my questions:

1) Is 120 too much? Everyone tells me it is. I loved what the 110 in the Rossi's felt like, but the boot fitter is insistent that 120 is fine. If we took one of the rivets out, would that make it a TRUE 110? Meaning, take 1 rivet out of the 120, would make it a 110 Salomon?

2) I bought the Rossi's at the shop in a 26.5 and the new boot fitter is saying I need a 25.5. When I put them on with my THIN ski socks, they feel TIGHT!! Like really tight length wise, like I am wearing too small of a shoe. I think the Salomon's are a 98mm but they can be pushed out to up to 104mm... by heating the shell??

These boots are $600 and I already took a financial loss buying the Rossi's, using a few times and having to sell to get these new Salomon's.

I have my fitting for these this Tuesday and don't want to make a mistake having a boot with the wrong flex and too small.

Thoughts?

 

[Josh Matta]

your boot does nt have to flex if your for and aft ramp/delta/and forward lean are dialed. You can always shim bindings if you need a different ramp.


You can always make a smaller shell larger, and the liner will pack/can be heat molded. If the shop stands behind the fit I would do it.

 

[François Pugh]

The boot needs to be tight enough to fit the narrow parts of your feet. It should be enlarged, but only in the spots that need to be made larger. That is the normal process.

 

[mxracer317]

The boot needs to be tight enough to fit the narrow parts of your feet. It should be enlarged, but only in the spots that need to be made larger. That is the normal process.

Tight - length wise. My toes feel like I am wearing too small of a shoe.

 

[Chris V.]

Find a good bootfitter, and I would hope you have already done. Trust your bootfitter. Tell your bootfitter a lot about how you like to ski. Tell your bootfitter all about the sensations you feel in the boots, in precise, objective terms. Your liners will "pack out" a lot in your first few days of skiing in them. Over time, modifications may be needed, and are very possible.

 

[Chris Geib]

Hi mxracer317,

Welcome to Pugski!

It would be remiss for anyone to second guess the boot fitter on the ground working with you. Do your research and make sure you are confident you have an experienced well regarded boot fitter. Also do your homework ahead of time, but admittedly there is a lot to learn by Tuesday so you will need to rely heavily on your fitter.

In general, it is almost cliche that boots are bought too large at the initial purchase, quickly pack out and a new pair one or two sizes smaller is immediately recommended; not realistic to make an oversized boot smaller. Flex rating is not a simple numbers game as one might think. There are many aspects to this and again a bit to digest by Tuesday. Below are a couple threads. Note that @Philpug has a number of articles in the Bootfitting forum titled "The Numbers Game Boots". Lots of discussion in the Bootfitting forum.

Good luck!


https://www.pugski.com/threads/the-numbers-game-boots-part-2.2410/
https://www.pugski.com/threads/why-pros-experts-really-ski-in-race-boots.447/
https://www.pugski.com/threads/question-on-ski-boot-flex-and-skier-development.3721/

 

[CalG]

Started skiing when I was 2 years old and made the grievous sin of switching to snowboarding when I was 14. That was 25 years ago, and I finally realized the errors of my ways. LOL

I was able to get back on the blue's no problem and have been doing a few black diamond's. It's like riding a bike!

Anyways, I bought some Rossi all-speed pro's in 110 based on the shop's recommendation. My foot was moving around in the boot and couldn't figure out why until I went to a boot fitter, Inkline in SLC. Apparently, I have narrow feet and needed a low volume boot.

... bought the 2019 Salomon S/Max 120 based on the boot fitters recommendations. These guys are HIGHLY reviewed. But I have some concerns based off my inexperience.

Here are my questions:

1) Is 120 too much? Everyone tells me it is. I loved what the 110 in the Rossi's felt like, but the boot fitter is insistent that 120 is fine. If we took one of the rivets out, would that make it a TRUE 110? Meaning, take 1 rivet out of the 120, would make it a 110 Salomon?

2) I bought the Rossi's at the shop in a 26.5 and the new boot fitter is saying I need a 25.5. When I put them on with my THIN ski socks, they feel TIGHT!! Like really tight length wise, like I am wearing too small of a shoe. I think the Salomon's are a 98mm but they can be pushed out to up to 104mm... by heating the shell??

These boots are $600 and I already took a financial loss buying the Rossi's, using a few times and having to sell to get these new Salomon's.

I have my fitting for these this Tuesday and don't want to make a mistake having a boot with the wrong flex and too small.

Thoughts?

For your own peace of mind. Pull the liner, and "shell fit" your boot.
Bump the toes gently into the toe box, look down your Achilles tendon at the gap between your heel and the boot plastic. 3/4 of an inch might be a useful space. A finger's thickness....

Check for contact on the sides of the forefoot while you are at it. Contact on both sides without a liner is not a good thing.

For a good fit down the road, the boot and liner SHOULD BE TIGHT for the first 7-10 days on snow. Maybe longer....

 

[mxracer317]

Hi mxracer317,

Welcome to Pugski!

It would be remiss for anyone to second guess the boot fitter on the ground working with you. Do your research and make sure you are confident you have an experienced well regarded boot fitter. Also do your homework ahead of time, but admittedly there is a lot to learn by Tuesday so you will need to rely heavily on your fitter.

In general, it is almost cliche that boots are bought too large at the initial purchase, quickly pack out and a new pair one or two sizes smaller is immediately recommended; not realistic to make an oversized boot smaller. Flex rating is not a simple numbers game as one might think. There are many aspects to this and again a bit to digest by Tuesday. Below are a couple threads. Note that @Philpug has a number of articles in the Bootfitting forum titled "The Numbers Game Boots". Lots of discussion in the Bootfitting forum.

Good luck!


https://www.pugski.com/threads/the-numbers-game-boots-part-2.2410/
https://www.pugski.com/threads/why-pros-experts-really-ski-in-race-boots.447/
https://www.pugski.com/threads/question-on-ski-boot-flex-and-skier-development.3721/

I've been reading for the past 2 weeks, as he is that booked out. I am just worried because I was sold the Rossi's from the owner of another ski shop.. and HE sold me ones too big according to the new boot fitter. In fact, it was the current boot fitter that told me all this and to go get the Salomon 120. Thanks for the comments. Totally agree. Just worried that I am going to make a 2nd mistake.

 

[mxracer317]

For your own peace of mind. Pull the liner, and "shell fit" your boot.
Bump the toes gently into the toe box, look down your Achilles tendon at the gap between your heel and the boot plastic. 3/4 of an inch might be a useful space. A finger's thickness....

Check for contact on the sides of the forefoot while you are at it. Contact on both sides without a liner is not a good thing.

For a good fit down the road, the boot and liner SHOULD BE TIGHT for the first 7-10 days on snow. Maybe longer....

Excellent idea! Thank you!

 

[cantunamunch]

I've been reading for the past 2 weeks, as he is that booked out. I am just worried because I was sold the Rossi's from the owner of another ski shop.. and HE sold me ones too big according to the new boot fitter. In fact, it was the current boot fitter that told me all this and to go get the Salomon 120. Thanks for the comments. Totally agree. Just worried that I am going to make a 2nd mistake.

Your story is quite typical.

One thing that the shell fit you are about to try will not give you an accurate idea of: how far back your heel will shift as the liner beds in around your foot. This makes a world of difference in toe feel.

Don't make a 2nd mistake by repeating the first mistake and getting too loose a shell.

 

[mxracer317]

All great replys, thank you!

What are thoughts about the flex? Is 120 too stiff for my level right now and will taking a rivet out the back make it a true 110?

 

[cantunamunch]

What are thoughts about the flex? Is 120 too stiff for my level right now and will taking a rivet out the back make it a true 110?

The 120 is more to do with your body geometry, your fitness, and the quality of the boot itself - your 'level' is not the overriding factor. Going softer is easy, but wait a bit on that.

Are you planning on getting instruction? Mileage on snow and instruction should be on the ticket list now - and when you get to a higher level instructor they can advise you on whether you *need* a softer boot.

"When" -> probably won't happen for some time. Mileage and practice now. There are tweaks like Booster straps you can play with in the meantime.

 

[Castle Dave]

You said the boots were tight lengthwise. Did you have a proper footbed on the boot or just your stocking feet? A footbed will make your feet shorter.
It would be helpful to know your height and weight as part of the flex equation. Also related to flex, pulling one bolt does reduce flex but you can not remove all bolts as this eliminates rebound (which you want). The most effective way to reduce flex is to cut the saddles in the clog which are the sides of the lower part of the boot. Bolts let you experiment then cut the saddles a bit at a time until you get the flex you desire. Note - this is not a DYI project and should only be done by a professional as the change is permanent.

 

[Corgski]

I have my fitting for these this Tuesday and don't want to make a mistake having a boot with the wrong flex and too small.
Thoughts?

Heat molding can expand a boot very significantly. My view is that one weak point of heat molding technology has been the ease with which one can start off with a too tight boot and end up with something that is too loose (happened with my wife's Atomics). Hopefully the process has improved so there is less risk of this but keep in mind that the risk is not that your boot is going to be too small for you, rather that if one gets too aggressive it will end up too big. Don't push too hard initially for a too comfortable fit. Rather walk out with it still a little too tight and come back later if needed (multiple visits should be covered in the purchase price). Personally I would start off with seeing if there are even thinner ski socks that you can start out with, I am currently wearing only very thin sock liners with my new boots until the boot liner packs out a little. I would also only get my shells molded if the thinnest ski socks on the market and heat molding the liners failed to give the space needed.

The flex difference you are talking about is just not that much to be concerned about. Worse case with the flex is that you have to become a better skier to match your ski boots. Basically what I have to do. Quick hint, don't buckle nearly as tightly with tighter stiffer boots as you would with looser softer boots.

 

[Wilhelmson]

New boots aren't going to feel great at first. How many days did you use them?

 

[RuleMiHa]

My boots required a toe punch for comfort, and it's easyish to soften too stiff boots. It's nearly impossible to fix too big and too soft boots so as long as you are willing to put in the energy to get a good fit you'll be fine.

 

[Slim]

Tight - length wise. My toes feel like I am wearing too small of a shoe.

What is the shell fit for length?

 

[Corgski]

Note that despite being put into a narrower boot, you only complained about length. Going one size up will result in the boot being about 2mm wider and a little higher which in the long term could be a bigger problem than making a little more space for your toes.

 

[Coach13]

I always have to have work done to get me some extra room in the toe and forefoot. My fitter works to get me a snug but great fit in the ankle and instep area 1st and goes from there. They seem to be able to cure the tight toes/forefoot pretty easily in my experience.

 

[Tricia]

Hi mxracer317,

Welcome to Pugski!

It would be remiss for anyone to second guess the boot fitter on the ground working with you. Do your research and make sure you are confident you have an experienced well regarded boot fitter. Also do your homework ahead of time, but admittedly there is a lot to learn by Tuesday so you will need to rely heavily on your fitter.

In general, it is almost cliche that boots are bought too large at the initial purchase, quickly pack out and a new pair one or two sizes smaller is immediately recommended; not realistic to make an oversized boot smaller. Flex rating is not a simple numbers game as one might think. There are many aspects to this and again a bit to digest by Tuesday. Below are a couple threads. Note that @Philpug has a number of articles in the Bootfitting forum titled "The Numbers Game Boots". Lots of discussion in the Bootfitting forum.

Good luck!


https://www.pugski.com/threads/the-numbers-game-boots-part-2.2410/
https://www.pugski.com/threads/why-pros-experts-really-ski-in-race-boots.447/
https://www.pugski.com/threads/question-on-ski-boot-flex-and-skier-development.3721/

This....
A 110 flex in one boot model may not be relevant to a 120 in another model.
I would trust the fitter in front of you at this point and work on getting them dialed. You won't regret it.