Carbony feel?

[blikkem]

Hi everyone,
I've read a number of times about how a ski (with carbon in them) feels carbony. Sometimes just in certain situations like going slow, but not all the time. What is this carbony feel?

 

[Philpug]

The feel of skiing in a snare drum, it can be very noisy or a very digital feel, little warmth from the ski, like a synthesizer verses a piano.

 

[Andy Mink]

You trade damp, "warm" feel for light weight. However, the skis are evolving to get light and damp without the tinny feel.

 

[doc]

If you ride bikes you know. Carbon frames feel very different-much in the way Philpug describes-than a steel, aluminum, titanium or magnesium frames.

 

[Dakine]

My Blossom #1SC's do make a sizzling sound that I don't get from skis with metal.

 

[Delicious]

My Blossom #1SC's do make a sizzling sound that I don't get from skis with metal.

Turn DOWN the iron!

 

[Tony Storaro]

If you fly fish you certainly know. The feel of graphite rod (well most of them, especially the inexpensive ones) vs glass and especially bamboo.

Same.

 

[Tim Hodgson]

All I know is the DPS Alchemist (i.e., carbon construction) Wailer 100RP is the best wide ski I have ever skied. And I have never noticed that it was carbon, just that it is light and quick.

 

[Noodler]

All I know is the DPS Alchemist (i.e., carbon construction) Wailer 100RP is the best wide ski I have ever skied. And I have never noticed that it was carbon, just that it is light and quick.

If you have been on the much earlier generations of the DPS carbon layup skis, you would really appreciate what DPS was finally able to accomplish with the current iteration of the Alchemist construction. Getting the feel of a lighter carbon layup dialed-in so that it's not a teeth rattling ride has been challenging for manufacturers.

I find it somewhat surprising because in the golfing world, carbon shafts (referred to as "graphite") are actually smoother feeling, more damp than the typical steel shafts. Many golfers turn to graphite shafts to solve problematic elbow issues.

 

[Philpug]

All I know is the DPS Alchemist (i.e., carbon construction) Wailer 100RP is the best wide ski I have ever skied. And I have never noticed that it was carbon, just that it is light and quick.

Like rocker, carbon is not carbon is not carbon. Also like metal, carbon is an ingredient in the construction and there is many ways to use it to get many different results. DPS has done a fantastic job getting what they want out of their Alchemist construction without it feeling like they are ping-y. If you tried one of their earlier "Pure" skis which were very carbon-y, you might have a different opinion. Blizzard used carbon at the extremities in a previous generation of the Bonafide and was uses to quiet the ski (and reduce swing weight a bit) and these had no carbon feel.

Edit: Correction.

 

[Tim Hodgson]

I liked them so much I bought the Yvette Alchemist 100RP for my wife to replace her Volkl Kenjas. We are tree skiers. But they have really quickened up my tree skiing immensely. Thank you for all your advice, Phil.

Mod Edit: Corrected previous quote

 

[Philpug]

I liked them so much I bought the Yvette Alchemist 100RP for my wife to replace her Völkl Kenjas. We are tree skiers. But they have really quickened up my tree skiing immensely. Thank you for all your advice, Phil.

Mod Edit: Corrected previous quote

These are two dramatically different skis, how did she like the transition?

 

[Tim Hodgson]

It is interesting. I think she is getting used to them but my wife didn't have the Eureka! experience that I had. I will ask my wife to define the comparison better and post it up. I prefer carrying the lighter DPS for her. . . A Dr. friend whom we ski with said she really liked the way they hold an edge on the groomer and chunked up powder on the way back to the lift. Which surprised me because although you can definitely rail them, it is their surfy pivot front or pivot under foot quickness that has impressed me.

 

[skibot1000]

I can concur on the all carbon 'ski feel'. I think poppy, loud, too quick, chatter etc if done wrong. There is sweet spot within the matrix combo of 1) core thickness 2) core type (see pine or fir vs maple or poplar) vs 3) ski width vs 4) how much composite under core vs 5) composite over core. (composite being glass or carbon)

And carbon seems to have an explosive breaking point vs glass will keep bending and the core will fail. One time I laid up a ski that was 'all carbon' on a super thin core as we were striving for ultimate lightweight. First run test ski dude hits a cliff, the ski flexed back and a 6" chunk of carbon top sheet laminate near the tip was over compressed and it sheered of the ski and flew past skiers face and in the next second the tip dove and the core broke downward, hooked in the snow and ripped the whole base clean off! Right under the chairlift lol. Buddy had to one ski it down with other ski in shambles after 1/2 a run.

One time I built a carbon hockey stick by making a core out of blue house insulation foam and wrapped it in carbon, shaped the blade etc. It looked awesome! Took to my Men's league game one night and took a couple shots and liked. Wound back for a real slap shot and the thing snapped in half and the blade end literally somehow launched straight up and bounced around in the high metal girders that span over the small arena and then fell back to the ice. It was funny...

I just built my first long bow ever that was 50% carbon in the composite layup adhered to a maple core, if you could call it that. I have not shot a bow since Cub Scouts 30 years ago , here are first shots...


Started next bow that is only glass but on a pine core so making a clean comparable might be iffy, but I will try

 

[Delicious]

I just really like a ski that doesn't make a bunch of noise going down the hill. I unfairly assume that a high-carbon content ski is going to be loud. It's just something that I need to get over. The ski I was on (much more than expected) this year was a Pinnacle 105Ti. It's a plastic core. I happen to like the ski quite a bit, so I'm not about to get all high and mighty about wood sandwich cores. Though I do prefer them in general.

 

[Eleeski]

Some of us love the "carbony" feel. On a twisty back road, I want a Ferrari - not a Cadillac.

Eric

 

[Tim Hodgson]

I have never noticed any "noise" whatsoever on my DPS Alchemist Wailer 100RP so I was surprised to hear about carbon noise. And although I was concerned about a ping-y hyper type of response from the ski, I have NEVER experienced that whatsoever. It is damp, light, and very quick turning when I want it.

 

[Philpug]

I have never noticed any "noise" whatsoever on my DPS Alchemist Wailer 100RP so I was surprised to hear about carbon noise. And although I was concerned about a ping-y hyper type of response from the ski, I have NEVER experienced that whatsoever. It is damp, light, and very quick turning when I want it.

Because there isn't one from that ski. The Alchemist wasn't brought up in this thread until you brought it up.

 

[Tim Hodgson]

Because there isn't one from that ski. The Alchemist wasn't brought up in this thread until you brought it up.

Aye. Then I am only providing a comparison based on my personal experience with that particular ski.

 

[PowHog]

A Phil said it much depends on how it is layered up. In general skis with a high content of carbon layers tend to be more responsive flex wise than their traditional fiberglass counterparts but manufacturers have come along way since then.

Personally I have yet to ski a full carbon made ski that I truly like and prefer some fiberglass added to it to dampen things down a notch.