Have Carbon Rims Made Custom Wheels a Thing of the Past?

[Tony S]

Where are you located? As I recall , the good wheel builders used to be in places like Burlington Vermont, Boulder, and the Bay Area , but also Boston and NYC-places with a strong cycling culture and usually local custom builders. Don't know if the internet makes that irrelevant or not.

I'm not shopping. My wondering is just curiosity.

 

[scott43]

My vote for best, no-BS wheelbuilder in the world:

LaceMine29.com Handbuilt bicycle wheels since 1994.

Handbuilt, custom mountain bike wheels. 26, 27.5, and 29, fat and plus.

lacemine29.com

Worth a look for research purposes, @scott43.

He certainly knows what he's talking about. The part about email because he hates being interrupted by the phone during a build, 100% true. He's building like 8 wheels a day..man..

Also, never builds with used rims or spokes. You can do this with friends and family but if someone is paying, it's just a PITA. More trouble than losing the job.

 

[dan ross]

I'm not shopping. My wondering is just curiosity.

Well, what I was getting at is if you are considering a post retirement wheel building business, your location might be helpful in determining the viability of that enterprise. I have no idea if the internet is a net plus or not in regards to this-it may not matter where you are .

 

[scott43]

Well, what I was getting at is if you are considering a post retirement wheel building business, your location might be helpful in determining the viability of that enterprise. I have no idea if the internet is a net plus or not in regards to this-it may not matter where you are .

I figure the internet means people can buy stuff pretty cheap from the whole world. It's hard to stock stuff for less than you can buy it online. Like, little things people won't care, they want stuff fixed. But big purchases, they shop and I don't know how bricks and mortar can beat internet other than service. I'm considering a garage workshop and mobile van service..sort of an S.S. Pugski but for transporting bikes with a complete repair setup. It fixes a lot of problems. Like the need for a commercial property and commercial taxes... But this isn't really conducive to selling stuff..

 

[dan ross]

I think you’re on to something with the mobile repair service.
As you say, it’s about service and unless and until you get that really good service, you don’t know what your missing.
As I mentioned earlier, the custom built wheels I had built had a big impact on the handling and performance of the bike but iI wouldn’t have really understood how much until I rode them. It’s an education thing.

 

[scott43]

I really enjoy the service part. I don't mind selling stuff but it's not my thing really. I don't really need to make money so that helps a lot. I'm starting now..get back into it in a bigger way..so I don't just retire and die...

 

[Jwrags]

I figure the internet means people can buy stuff pretty cheap from the whole world. It's hard to stock stuff for less than you can buy it online. Like, little things people won't care, they want stuff fixed. But big purchases, they shop and I don't know how bricks and mortar can beat internet other than service. I'm considering a garage workshop and mobile van service..sort of an S.S. Pugski but for transporting bikes with a complete repair setup. It fixes a lot of problems. Like the need for a commercial property and commercial taxes... But this isn't really conducive to selling stuff..

So you are looking to do something like this

Home Page

No more waiting at the bike shop. We come directly to you.

www.velofix.com

 

[scott43]

Yeah velofix or something similar. Who knows. I may just sit on the dock and admire the day.

 

[cantunamunch]

In other news, the local van guy just went brick & mortar. https://www.handybikesdc.com/

 

[Bill Talbot]

So I used to build a lot of wheels. And I've been eyeing my post retirement plans. Seems service is the word these days. Internet makes selling stuff difficult. I thought, I can do custom wheel builds. But like you @Tony S , I see many people buying mass built wheels. And they're good. So I don't really know what the market would be for custom wheels. I'm doing rebuilds for people right now but selling custom? Dunno. Listening to this discussion carefully...

The whole point of retiring is to STOP working!

 

[Ken_R]

10 or 15 years ago, if you asked about a wheelset upgrade, most experienced riders would tell you to have a well-regarded builder make you a set. Best quality, best value. Win-win. Factory-built wheels were second class citizens, with a handful of exceptions. I am not seeing that advice anymore. Why not?

Not really. Enve wheels can be custom built by just about any competent wheelbuilder. Same with NOBL wheels.

Mavic has been using proprietary hardware for many years, as have others, which makes those wheels not wheelbuilder friendly, but there are alternatives.

 

[scott43]

There are alternatives but do people use custom or just choose to buy factory built. I would say it's certainly less than the 100% custom from my days.

 

[Tricia]

I have not seen a need to upgrade my rims on bikes I've had thus far, but then I'm not a crazy good rider.
When I got the E-Caliber they had upgraded the wheel set to DT Swiss M1700 Spline (25mm).
Stock wheel set was Bontrager Kovee Comp 23.(around $700/set)
I'm not sure if I am good enough to notice the difference, but I know I'm enjoying the DT Swiss that are on it.

 

[Tony S]

Clarification: When I say "custom" wheelset what I really mean is "wheelset built by an independent craftsperson." That wheelset MIGHT have been built last week in his or her shop, before you were a customer, with no input from you. Or it MIGHT have been built with exactly the hubs, spokes, rims, and lacing that you asked for. But it was not a stock model from a major component brand.

In my experience typically it was blend of the two: You told the guy what you wanted and then he told you why that was a stupid idea. Then he talked you into letting him build what he thought you should have. Then you told all your friends about the custom wheels you'd had built.

This was definitely true with the curmudgeon builders like Peter White, referenced above by @KevinF . I never got to ride on Mike Curiak wheels (also referenced above, by @Tom K. ), even though I tried to get a pair 11 years ago for my first 29er. He didn't return any of my emails. These guys have attitude, that's for sure. I did end up with a front MTB wheel from Gravy Wheels once, and it was noticeably superb.

20 years ago I'd do a huge preseason order of rims from Mavic and build wheels all year. Now, I don't even keep rims in stock. The wheels I do build are much more expensive than what was imaginable back then. I'm building up a pair of Onyx hubs (silent BTW) with carbon rims for a customer this week.

I think what I am hearing from people is that my observation is correct: Many of the folks who, 15 years ago, would have been on custom wheels no longer are. However, I haven't learned why not. The speculation in my head when I started the thread was, "Maybe carbon rims are so reluctant to go out of true or break that you don't need to be a master wheel builder to make a wheel that lasts and performs well. And maybe so many of the former custom-wheel buyers are on carbon rims that this explains the phenomenon." (Plenty of casual riders are obviously still on alloy rims, but when and if they replace a wheel they're probably not looking for even a mid-range item.)

 

[Rudi Riet]

In other news, the local van guy just went brick & mortar. https://www.handybikesdc.com/

Given his typical spots in SW DC and Arlington County have been taken over by construction it was only a matter of time before he settled into a brick-and-mortar. He's also now working with a bunch of brands and it's easier to do fittings, customer consultations, and builds in a static location.

And I'm willing to bet that VeloFix had a little bit to do with this move.

Funny thing is that when HandyBikes moved to a brick-and-mortar, one of the best local wrenches decided to take her shop mobile, operating from an e-cargo bike. http://www.upshiftdc.com/

 

[tch]

I think what I am hearing from people is that my observation is correct: Many of the folks who, 15 years ago, would have been on custom wheels no longer are. However, I haven't learned why not.

I'd suggest the decline in custom wheelset purchases and use are definitely related to the almost-total domination of carbon fiber in the higher-end marketplace. But my take is that it started with the bikes. For many reasons, there just aren't that many independent frame builders who work in carbon (I know, there are some). This led to more and more folks riding corporate "factory" bikes (Trek, Specialized, Giant, etc.). These come come completely built with complementary (and sometimes proprietary) parts, so the rider gets a whole machine. There is much less building up from bare frames going on. And, these machines are considered more disposable; "upgrading" nice frames with better parts is almost a thing of the past. Riders just buy new, complete bikes. That means there is less of a market for improvements marketed as "better" wheels for your "forever" steel or titanium frame.

I would also add that I believe factory wheels have come a long way; I'd probably have to spend half of what my entire Specialized Roubaix cost in order to get a custom wheelset that is substantially better than what it came with.

 

[martyg]

I'd suggest the decline in custom wheelset purchases and use are definitely related to the almost-total domination of carbon fiber in the higher-end marketplace. But my take is that it started with the bikes. For many reasons, there just aren't that many independent frame builders who work in carbon (I know, there are some). This led to more and more folks riding corporate "factory" bikes (Trek, Specialized, Giant, etc.). These come come completely built with complementary (and sometimes proprietary) parts, so the rider gets a whole machine. There is much less building up from bare frames going on. And, these machines are considered more disposable; "upgrading" nice frames with better parts is almost a thing of the past. Riders just buy new, complete bikes. That means there is less of a market for improvements marketed as "better" wheels for your "forever" steel or titanium frame.

I would also add that I believe factory wheels have come a long way; I'd probably have to spend half of what my entire Specialized Roubaix cost in order to get a custom wheelset that is substantially better than what it came with.

I've been on bone stock Roval wheels for years (which are DT OEM in most cases). Love them. Zero complaints. Zero issues.

 

[cantunamunch]

I think what I am hearing from people is that my observation is correct: Many of the folks who, 15 years ago, would have been on custom wheels no longer are. However, I haven't learned why not. The speculation in my head when I started the thread was, "Maybe carbon rims are so reluctant to go out of true or break that you don't need to be a master wheel builder to make a wheel that lasts and performs well. And maybe so many of the former custom-wheel buyers are on carbon rims that this explains the phenomenon."

You haven't explained why you think an independent craft wheel builder would be more masterly than an in-house builder employed by Zipp Enve Hunt Princeton Boyd Stans Syncros Lightweight or whoever else makes the rims?

More adaptable to customer wants, I can see, given a sufficiently wide range of customer wishes . More masterly - not sure about that.

 

[scott43]

Back in the day, typical OEM rims were machine built and sometimes finished by hand. They were... Not spectacular. I often touched them up on new bikes. For good customers I'd take a serious look at them. I think they are better built these days. Machinery and or hand labour improvements. And they're more expensive. So maybe people are willing to pay for these improvements.

 

[snwbrdr]

Never had issues with my Mavic Ksyrium Elite I bought back in 2013 for my road bike

Likewise, custom Stan's rim builds for my MTB and Cross bike by my LBS. Plus, I got the LBS to mimick some of the Specialized wheels with different colored spokes around the valve hole area.