Head information, and some ski technology and design questions

[Bruno Schull]

Winter's coming! I love to demo new carving skis. I have the good luck to ski regularly at a resort where many premium skis are available to rent for relatively reasonable prices. Over the years, my favorites carving skis so far are the Atomic Redster S9 (I've only tried the last generation model with the damping strut), the Stockli Laser SL, and the Stockly Laser AX. I own a pair of Stockli SLs in 170.

I've never tried a Head ski. I hope that changes this season.

1) First, what in the world are they thinking with their naming scheme in the piste category? I can't for the life of me keep the names straight. Are these the worst names in the ski bussines? Somebody at head should take the simple naming concept of the "Kore" line and apply it to the piste skis. Ok, with that out of the way...

2) EMC technology. A ceramic piezoelectrc circuit? I am sure they are great skis, but I have my doubts. The Volk approach (basically a weight on the tip of the ski), or the Atomic approach (the damping strut, or now weights sunk into the body of the ski), or the Stockly approach (a dense, high-quality core?) make more sense to me. That said--for all the engineers out there--if Head do have some ceramic elements in the skis, and these elements are transforming kinetic energy and mechanical deformation into electricity, and then distributing this electrical energy through a carbon weave (my understanding of what's going on based on the advertising copy) perhaps this accomplishes the same thing, which is just to dissapate energy and damp the ski? Any thoughts on this technology? I guess one way to judge would be to compare the equivalent ski models with and without the new technology. Has anybody done this? Or are there too many other things changing about the skis to isolate the EMC element?

3) There are many models, names, and versions in circulation. I see that on the US site, under the "Performance" category, there are four skis, the Supershape Titan, Rally, Magnum, and Speed. Here are the waist widths, turning radii, and some notes about each ski, each pulled from the website, all for a 170 length (to be clear, for a SL ski, that's the length I would use, but for a more all-around ski, I might go up to about 175 or so).

Titan
84 mm waist, 15.7 m radius
"The Supershape e-Titan is the widest ski of the Supershape family. Not only is it wide, it carves large."

Rally
78 mm waist, 14 m radius
"The Supershape e-Rally is the ideal frontside/backside carver. Ski instructors and precision rippers will love this ski east to west."

Magnum
72 mm, waist 13.1 radius
"The Supershape e-Magnum is the true middle of the Supershape family. The middle width and the middle turn."

Speed
68 mm, 14 m
"The Supershape e-Speed is an on-piste long turn precision instrument for the carving enthusiast."

OK, so this generally makes sense to me; the skis decrease in waist width and turning radii, except for the Speed, which is the narrowest, but has a larger turning radius.

Would it be fair to say that the Magnum is the best all-around short-to-medium carving ski to try? If I want to get a feel for what Head skis are all about, would this be a good model to try? Is this the model that is most comparable to skis like the Atomic Redster S9 or the Stockli Laser SL?

4) The Speed drops in waist width but increases in turning radius. You can see the same thing with Atomic skis. The X9 skis are narrower than the S9 skis, but they have longer radii. I've always wondered why this is so. Why do longer-radii GS-style skis tend to have narrower waist widths than SL skis? Part of me thinks that SL skis should have the narrowest widths. What's the explanation for this element of ski design?

5) The Head website also has a somewhat intimidating "Race" page. Are these skis even available to regular folks? Are there any skis there that I might consider trying? For example, there are the Worldcup Rebels e-Speed Pro and e-Speed, as well as the e-Race Pro and e-Race, and the Rebels i.SLR and the i.Shape Pro...whew! Go back to my first point above. These names are ridiculous. Head would benefit from some better branding, naming, and ski identity differentiation in this category.

OK, thanks for entertaining my questions/rant.

 

[Bruno Schull]

No love? Was it just TLDR?

 

[RickyG]

Bruno...just to report I have many of the same thoughts about ski engineering in general. I also would like to "jump" on some of the shorter radius Head/Atomic/Blizzard equipment but can't find it to demo. Heck I can't find these skis in any Colorado front range ski shop to even handle and bend. Where are you getting demos at?

 

[Philpug]

No love? Was it just TLDR?

Sorry, I read this yesterday and didn't get back to it.

The SS Speed was basically the original Supershape then they added the Magnum and that became the darling...then the Titan and finally the Rally to make a 4 ski collection. To avoid the TLDR crew and moving to the current generation, I have not been a fan of the new eTitan, I think they finally swung the pendulum too far by making it 84mm underfoot. Where the Rally was the darling of the previous generation, it is the eMagnum that has been suffering from middle child syndrome that has IMHO has blossomed to come back to being the best of what a Supershape should be.

 

[Bruno Schull]

Thanks for the replies!

I'll look for a SS eMagnum to try this season.

What do peole think about Head EMC? Gimmick or real?

 

[Primoz]

What do peole think about Head EMC? Gimmick or real?

Marketing trick, with no real thing inside of a ski. If nothing else, it's not allowed for race skis anyway, and they brag they have it in race skis. Same thing with their KERS and I don't know what else they had in past.

 

[Tony Storaro]

5) The Head website also has a somewhat intimidating "Race" page. Are these skis even available to regular folks? Are there any skis there that I might consider trying?

In fact most of the love here goes exactly to the Race versions of Head skis
WorldCup Rebel series has in my opinion much more interesting skis than the Supershape.
Just be careful what you pick.
I am very much looking forward to putting my WC Rebels E-GS RD Pro on some steep, smooth and icy stuff.

​

 

[Bruno Schull]

@ Tony--Thanks for that. I expected as much.

OK so...which of the "race" series skis might be most like the Atomic Redster S9, Stockli Laser SL, and so on? Looking for a powerful, damp ski, that's accessible to mere mortals. I'm an intermediate, but I can carve, and I found the Redster S9 and the Laser Sl great, so I don't think I need a total "beginner ski." I am about 6'4" 205 lbs with an athletic build. I think I often find these skis accesible purely because of my weight and strength, and not because of my technique, or lack thereof. Ideas?

 

[Philpug]

In fact most of the love here goes exactly to the Race versions of Head skis

Here in Europe or here on the site? Here in the US, the Kore's get the lions share of the love and on the site, more than enough to split the vote.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Here in Europe or here on the site? Here in the US, the Kore's get the lions share of the love and on the site, more than enough to split the vote.

On the site. When it comes to frontside skis-the ones mentioned in the OP.
Kores are different thing. Hugely popular in Europe too.

 

[mikel]

Bruno...just to report I have many of the same thoughts about ski engineering in general. I also would like to "jump" on some of the shorter radius Head/Atomic/Blizzard equipment but can't find it to demo. Heck I can't find these skis in any Colorado front range ski shop to even handle and bend. Where are you getting demos at?

Ricky, not sure if the demos will happen this season at Loveland or Keystone but you could check with the 2 stores that back them and see what will be available if the demos do happen.

Seems like when it comes to the demos the Kore is far more prevalent than Supershape.

Another suggestion is Winter Park. They have in the past had various models from Head in their demo shop.

 

[JTurner]

@ Tony--Thanks for that. I expected as much.

OK so...which of the "race" series skis might be most like the Atomic Redster S9, Stöckli Laser SL, and so on? Looking for a powerful, damp ski, that's accessible to mere mortals. I'm an intermediate, but I can carve, and I found the Redster S9 and the Laser Sl great, so I don't think I need a total "beginner ski." I am about 6'4" 205 lbs with an athletic build. I think I often find these skis accesible purely because of my weight and strength, and not because of my technique, or lack thereof. Ideas?

The “race” style skis you would want are the e-race, which is a short turn version and the e-speed which is more of a rec GS style ski (though nowhere near real GS radius)
Each of those has a pro version, which in years past has mainly meant a more legit race plate, stiffening the ski and lifting the binding. The RD and RD FIS are the real race skis in lengths either legal or not for FIS racers. And the WCR 14 plate versions have a lesser plate.

The circuitry bit is complete make believe, but the heads I’ve raced on have been really nice skis… really damp and stable, and the GS skis surprisingly tame in longitudinal flex.
Hope this helps

 

[DocGKR]

For recreational non-race carving the Rebel e.Race Pro is a nice short to medium radius ski (similar to a Stockli WRT-ST), while the Rebel e.Speed is a medium to long radius sport carver (similar to a Stockli Laser GS); both of these Head Rebel skis offer better groomer performance and higher speed limits than the Head SuperShapes, but they are definitely NOT true race skis.

 

[bbbradley]

My non-race skis are 2018 Head Worldcup Rebels i.Race (122/68/102 14m) and they are a fun carving ski. I didn't quite know what they were when I bought them, but I'm happy with them to complement my FIS SL and FIS GS skis.
They can handle pretty much anything a normal skier in east coast conditions can throw at them, they are far from optimal for all conditions but serve me well on the trail, in trees, bumps, etc.

 

[François Pugh]

Late to the party; I see my job here is already done by @bbbradley @DocGKR, @JTurner and @Tony Storaro .

Also agree with @Philpug Head Magnum is a good representative for Head's front-side biased carving skis. If you want more performance, then the e-race from the race page. Traditionally, the better performers have "RD" for race department in the name, although lately PRO has been used to represent more powerful, less forgiving skis.

As to the piezo-electric gimmick, my understanding is it is incorporated so that at low speeds it's turned off and the ski is softer and thus more suited to the light duty required at slow speeds, without being neutered at higher speeds.

Folks who want a carving ski tend to also ski at higher speeds, so there is an argument to be made for a longer radius in a carving ski. A radius more suited to the size of turn you can make at higher speeds, but 14 m is still pretty short.

 

[bbbradley]

Folks who want a carving ski tend to also ski at higher speeds, so there is an argument to be made for a longer radius in a carving ski. A radius more suited to the size of turn you can make at higher speeds, but 14 m is still pretty short.

The 14m is on the shorter end, but for me, skiing with "methodical skiers" I can rip turns and stay close to their speeds. The i.Race is surprisingly stable when pressed but certainly is not a high-speed ski.

 

[François Pugh]

The 14m is on the shorter end, but for me, skiing with "methodical skiers" I can rip turns and stay close to their speeds. The i.Race is surprisingly stable when pressed but certainly is not a high-speed ski.

My usual daily driver here on the local speed bump is a Fischer WC SC with a 13 m radius. I've taken it to bigger hills and skied it at terminal velocity on those hills. Stability is not a problem. Carving a clean long radius turn at speed is not it's thing though (That's why they make an RC...and GS and SG and DH).

 

[GB_Ski]

I agree with @François Pugh , his takes on SC is the same as my view on Magnum. It is my daily driver here in NY. Fantastic skis, but I definitely can feel its limit if I push it, especially when I make longer turns than its radius (13.1). Personally, I would go with the race series like others have recommended.

 

[Tony Storaro]

Folks who want a carving ski tend to also ski at higher speeds, so there is an argument to be made for a longer radius in a carving ski.

This should be carved in stone, put somewhere in the Bible and given printed on a card to every single ski buyer around the world.

 

[bbbradley]

This should be carved in stone, put somewhere in the Bible and given printed on a card to every single ski buyer around the world.

Perhaps, with an asterisk that says, " But, not always."