I hate to actually admit this, but ... I have no clue about tuning

[RobSN]

I checked the articles on Pugski, and then I checked the articles on SkiTalk and see nothing obvious ON EITHER SITE!!! Having spent much (too much?) of my pandemic reading about skiing here, I cannot help but see sage posts debating the efficacy of edges being at x degrees with stone ground bread (or was it bases?) while other equally (one assumes) sagacious posters swear that y degrees is appropriate when edging turns at 80+ mph. I exaggerate only slightly. All of this makes me curious to learn just what the cognoscenti are talking about but I know not where to look to learn. (I will say this though - the second hand Z-90s that I just bought from @Plai had a recent tune from Smoothrides and those edges are darned sharp). After y'all have had a darned good laugh at my ignorance and said "Dang, I'd previously assumed @RobSN was a skier - now I know better ", can anyone point me to something good that explains it all? Ta everso.

 

[Plai]

@RobSN the Z90s were given a 1 base and 2 side bevels. As a non-race background weekend warrior, that's what was recommended by @smoothrides for Tahoe area conditions.

HTH

 

[RobSN]

@RobSN the Z90s were given a 1 base and 2 side bevels. As a non-race background weekend warrior, that's what was recommended by @smoothrides for Tahoe area conditions.

HTH

Thanks @Plai and it helps partially - now the question that arises for me, because of my ignorance, is what does that MEAN? Why do they recommend that (and I assume the 1 and 2 are degrees)? My prior experience has been: (a) take skis to ski shop and ask for tune; (b) collect skis & fork over cash and (c) ski on them. But I realize from these forums that I'd like to understand a bit more about what they do and more to the point why they do it!

 

[Tricia]

I checked the articles on Pugski, and then I checked the articles on SkiTalk and see nothing obvious ON EITHER SITE!!!

Did those two sites agree with each other?
I hear that they're the best sourse of information.

 

[Philpug]

Did those two sites agree with each other?
I hear that they're the best sourse of information.

1 and 1a.

 

[TheArchitect]

Sagacious. Now there's a word that you don't see too often. Nice.

I found my fellow Pugs on SkiTalk to be very, very helpful in guiding me in what to buy when I wanted to start tuning. I can't say that we got into the science of what you're asking about, though. It was somewhere between said science and "ugg, sharp good."

Oh, and be careful what you ask for. @Jacques will likely show up with a 7 hour video on how to remove a burr with specially honed whale bone.

 

[scott43]

I need my laptop for this ..

 

[Jacques]

Sagacious. Now there's a word that you don't see too often. Nice.

I found my fellow Pugs on SkiTalk to be very, very helpful in guiding me in what to buy when I wanted to start tuning. I can't say that we got into the science of what you're asking about, though. It was somewhere between said science and "ugg, sharp good."

Oh, and be careful what you ask for. @Jacques will likely show up with a 7 hour video on how to remove a burr with specially honed whale bone.

Ha ha! To each his own. I do know for myself, that what I do tuning works for me. Seems to work quite well for many others too.
I have learned that there are different strokes for different folks. Some like a tune one way, and some like it another.
I try to know what a person is looking for in a tune.
I have learned that by asking a series of questions that usually helps me to know what they want, even if they don't understand ski tuning.

Edit: BTW my longest tuning video is only like 5 hours long. It did not need to be, but it was a deal where someone wanted to see the real time I took, thus I had to show all the repetitive steps. Had I used a coarse cross-cut file on the long base bevel, the video would have been shorter.
Also softening machined edges prior to a hand tune takes a long time too.
Ski on and have fun!

 

[KingGrump]

Here are 3 videos from the Toko guy. Pretty clear and concise.

Side edge angling.
Base edge beveling.
Ski wax for racing.

 

[Plai]

Thanks @Plai and it helps partially - now the question that arises for me, because of my ignorance, is what does that MEAN? Why do they recommend that (and I assume the 1 and 2 are degrees)? My prior experience has been: (a) take skis to ski shop and ask for tune; (b) collect skis & fork over cash and (c) ski on them. But I realize from these forums that I'd like to understand a bit more about what they do and more to the point why they do it!

Yes @RobSN that 1 degree base, 2 degree side bevels.

Less than 1 degree base means faster engagement when the skis are tipped. The downside is that they maybe harder to control when trying to swivel, pivot, brush the skis. So, for my ability and conditions, this makes good sense.

The 2 degree side bevels is OK for cutting into "hardened" crusty snow here in the Sierra's, aka "Sierra Cement". The Northeasters on site often talk about 3 degree side bevels to "cut" into the ice. Their claim is that we in the west don't have ice. Again, the 2 degree side bevels fits my ability and conditions.

I suggest you give them a try and see if they work for you. If you book up too fast, detune the tips until the engagement point, widest part of the tip. If they don't engage quick enough for you, consider a smaller base bevel. If you have more ice than me (Tahoe) and the edges aren't biting/slicing the ice, get a higher degree side bevel.

HTH

 

[SpikeDog]

Watching Jacques' 5 hour tuning video......

 

[Jacques]

Watching Jacques' 5 hour tuning video......

Oh, that's great. I loved the OG Star Trek when I was a child and still love it!
If you super speed it on YT to 2x speed..........well, it's shorter!

 

[Steve]

I think that's more about watching the one piece suits video you made.

 

[TheArchitect]

Ha ha! To each his own. I do know for myself, that what I do tuning works for me. Seems to work quite well for many others too.
I have learned that there are different strokes for different folks. Some like a tune one way, and some like it another.
I try to know what a person is looking for in a tune.
I have learned that by asking a series of questions that usually helps me to know what they want, even if they don't understand ski tuning.

Edit: BTW my longest tuning video is only like 5 hours long. It did not need to be, but it was a deal where someone wanted to see the real time I took, thus I had to show all the repetitive steps. Had I used a coarse cross-cut file on the long base bevel, the video would have been shorter.
Also softening machined edges prior to a hand tune takes a long time too.
Ski on and have fun!

I've watched a few of your videos and found them quite useful. I couldn't help making the joke.

 

[TheArchitect]

Yes @RobSN that 1 degree base, 2 degree side bevels.

Less than 1 degree base means faster engagement when the skis are tipped. The downside is that they maybe harder to control when trying to swivel, pivot, brush the skis. So, for my ability and conditions, this makes good sense.

The 2 degree side bevels is OK for cutting into "hardened" crusty snow here in the Sierra's, aka "Sierra Cement". The Northeasters on site often talk about 3 degree side bevels to "cut" into the ice. Their claim is that we in the west don't have ice. Again, the 2 degree side bevels fits my ability and conditions.

I suggest you give them a try and see if they work for you. If you book up too fast, detune the tips until the engagement point, widest part of the tip. If they don't engage quick enough for you, consider a smaller base bevel. If you have more ice than me (Tahoe) and the edges aren't biting/slicing the ice, get a higher degree side bevel.

HTH

I have .5 base bevel and 3 degree side bevel on all skis but my BMX 105's. It makes a big difference here on the ice coast. And yes, you guys have no idea what real ice is unless you've skied here. I'm talking the blue stuff that looks like the blue line on a hockey rink. That's called "firm conditions" here.

 

[raytseng]

well, the factory laser ax tune is 1.3 /2 and skis great (smoothrides measured and confirmed on a svst bevel meter) so

 

[graham418]

m talking the blue stuff that looks like the blue line on a hockey rink. That's called "firm conditions" here.

We call it "Ontario hardpack"

 

[James]

My prior experience has been: (a) take skis to ski shop and ask for tune; (b) collect skis & fork over cash and (c) ski on them. But I realize from these forums that I'd like to understand a bit more about what they do and more to the point why they do it!

Congrats on the 1st step- admitting you have a problem.
At some point, you’ll be back there with much more knowledge.
Btw, the topic of base bevels has been covered so many times that the search engine should roll it’s eyes. But, it’s brain dead.

 

[Steve]

So no one has really helped you here.

Basic tuning practice would be to debur the side edges with diamond stones in guides, file them if they need it. Clean and wax the bases.

So if your not setting your edges yourself, starting with a good tune, than you need to know what the side edge angle is. 1, 2 or 3 probably, and buy a guide for that bevel. Buy a couple of diamond stones, maybe a gummi stone and learn how to use them.

Don't touch the base edges except a very light pass to remove any hanging burr, particularly if you file the sides.

Get some wax, so may ways to do it, rub it in, iron it on, use a paste, use a spray.

Wax on, wax off. Scraper, brushes, etc.

 

[Mendieta]

So no one has really helped you here.

Basic tuning practice would be to debur the side edges with diamond stones in guides, file them if they need it. Clean and wax the bases.

Exactly.

@RobSN : the base angle tells you how quickly the ski will engage the edges: the lower the angle the more "grabby" the ski (for good and for evil, the latter being catching an edge if you don't pay attention). One degree is the recommended setting for most of us. The side angle tells you how the ski holds on to a turn on edge. A larger angle makes it easier to make carved turns, but it makes it harder to release from a turn, all things equal. Two degrees is the recommended setting for most of us.

I don't know how to tune, or ski, very well, but I learned how to do a basic tune (like Steve suggested above) a few seasons ago and I couldn't be happier. It is simply not practical to have your skis touched up at a shop as frequently as needed. Just going through the bases and side edges with a stone and resetting the sides with a diamond file every few days of skiing is a game changer. So is waxing with similar frequency. If you are looking for that type of info, our resident experts can definitely help (as they helped me).