Individual Review Line Supernatural 108

[WadeHoliday]

ski; 179 supernatural 108,
conditions; 1.5 hour so far of 7-12 inches of wet snow, Alpine Meadows. snowing hard, fresh lines skied well, tracks were pretty solid once skied, so non fresh lines took different tactics.
Skier: careful, moderate speed, prefers finished round turns, was full cert psia way back when, 5ft 11, 162. (Video attached of some of the terrain I am targeting, much better snow then test day, but will give you feel for skier style.)

So, I am interested in this ski as it matches the parameters I believe I want for a Northstar powder ski. So many days this year (like this morning), Mt Rose is closed, SV and Alpine are closed, Northstar is the place to be, but with 18in to 2ft of new, it doesn't have the pitch to make it ski well, so I want a soft wider ski that makes skiing Northstar more fun on these days. snaking around in low angle trees is so fun, so getting a ski that can do it more often is what I'm after. That is in contrast to my previous target for my pow ski, which was something that could hold on a bullet proof rain layer in the entry turns into Chute 75, then ski well in the pow and bumps below.

So, I took a bmx 105 hp out for the first 2 runs, as I know how it behaves and would give me a control to feel the snow and figure out the best tactic, then I got on the supernatural 108 and skied the same runs.

Supernatural definitely planes up higher and skis looser. That said, it also tracked well and felt solid, not just wishy washy, non linear like so many of the really wide new school skis I've disliked. There was mostly good sensations here, it felt predictable, but planed higher and was easier to shorten up turn radius and drift in the pow then on my 95 or even 105. But... the forebody of the ski felt too short (only 2cm shorter then my daily skis), where I occasionally was feeling like I was going to trip over the shovel of the ski.
I put them side by side w/ bmx 105 and tail was same, all 2cm was in the front, so I moved them back on the demo track. With that new postion, it skied better, and shovel didn't try to tuck under.

So, that said, the shovel behavior did take an adjustment for me. I'm used to my fx95, and my loaner wide ski, bmx105, and they both have more taper then the line, and that creates a different initial sensation when tipped up. The kastle's shovel slides through and lets you decide when you want it to engage, the less taper of the line tries to draw you into the next turn quicker.

As a guy who hasn't historically liked skis wider then then my boot sole, and someone that disliked anything resembling a 5pt design until Kastle created the fx 95, figuring out the "taper" thing is interesting. As I mentioned in the more dramatic new school skis, I really dislike the Rossi and DPS extreme taper designs, but on this comparison, I think a bit more taper then the Line would be good. Looking for goldilocks in this design parameter is a whole new thing.

Overall, this ski is a contender for a super fun pow ski and may be in the range of what I'm targeting for maximizing terrain like this and flatter in deep snow.

Anyone have other recommendations?.... 110 widest I'd want, 105 narrowest. around 180-183. soft enough to bend up nicely for my 162 at moderate pace, moderate pitch.

Cheers!
Wade

PS, Line 108 provided by Bluezone Sports in Truckee, thx SierraJim!
Kastle BMX 105 provided by Dawgcatching.

 

[WadeHoliday]

Already replying to myself... just waiting for wind holds to get released so I can go ski it some more this AM!
atmospheric river... jeez our resorts have lost their ability to deal w/ real storms after multiple years of low snow...

So, looking at this whole wide ski thing again...
More background; I have skied my fx95 as my everything ski for a couple years now. Amazing days w/ 2ft of new and it works beautifully, but... I like to ski a lot, enjoy tweaking my toys to maximize my fun and can afford multiple skis, so why not try to find the perfect one for this niche...? One reason to avoid this temptation is the idealistic side of just making the ski you are on work and keeping it simple. That thought is why I've been drawn to just have my 95.

That said, on the day in the video, I also swapped skis w/ regular ski buddy, the ex ski school director of northstar. He was on the katana carbon, 112 under foot. He was able to carry more speed and plane much higher as the slope flattened out. In my run on the katana, I didn't love it, but I did like how I could milk quite a few more turns out of the hill as it flattened out, so I decided to find a ski in this niche. As mentioned, terrain is key, and being 7min from Northstar and my wife and daughters loving it, I have been spending more pow days there, and that ideal ski is different then Squaw Valley.

On this test day, I also took a run down the face at Alpine on my 95 after skiing the 108 and 105. It was great. So why wider? I'm still struggling w/ if I really want one, but I do think it's more fun in really tight trees and flats to have higher plane and more ability to drift in pow.

Your thoughts?

Cheers,
Wade

 

[Tom K.]

Agree 100% about wider skis letting you have a lot more fun on low angle pow slopes, and Blister loves the Supernatural 108.

I was SLOW to come around to wide skis, but now I ski my 113 mm Patrons anytime there is over 4 or 5 inches at my home area of Mt. Hood Meadows (not that steep in most places). They let me turn in a lot more places, which is the whole point of this skiing thing for me, these days.

They are almost perfect. Energy, quick, smooth and they actually carve (doesn't every Nordica and Head?!). But a little too much tail rocker for my tastes. I'm looking hard at next year's Enforcer Pro, which is 115 underfoot. Early pics seem to indicate less tail rocker on this ski, even though the new Enforcer 110 appears to have plenty.

I outweigh you by around 30 pounds, so your quest for a 105-110 waist seems appropriate. Enjoy the hunt!

 

[Josh Matta]

Have you tried the 5 point skis like the Soul 7 in the 188 length?

 

[Philpug]

@WadeHoliday , I am not a fan of the 5 point skes either. The BMX105 is one of my favorites in the category and I like it much more than the FX's for some reason. Ine of my favorites for the Northstar trees is the K2 Pinnacle 105, I find it to be fun and surfy and still ski normal when it gets up on edge when the coditions get packed out. The Armada Tracer 108 is going to be fun. I hoped to get on it today at Rose but the demo was cancelled. I did ski the 98 and liked it a lot. The other one that I like a lot is the new Head Kore 105, that was a blast.

 

[WadeHoliday]

Hi Josh,
Yes I did ski the s7 in a 188, and a dps 112 in a 184. Neither of those were good for my skiing style and where i like to ski.

To add to this, I spent more time on the Line, and while it's surfier and floats better then the bmx105, it is not nearly as good as things get skied out, and the 105 is just slightly less floaty in the deep.


I skied the 105 again in broken snow today, and it skis very similiar to my 95 there, just slightly more friendly, but slower edge to edge. Tip and tail design are just so dang good for me, and they feel solid and predictable while being slightly easier then a straight sidecut design.
I think I need to get on the 105 non HP soon.

I'd also like to try that pinnacle 105, I heard it was a good softer one, Thx Phil.

Cheers!
W

 

[Alexzn]

Wade- I am curious why you didn't like the DPS 112. I did get onto a Soul7 this year in a nice Colorado powder day and didn't like it at all, compared to my DPS112 it felt like a wide plank with plastic tips and tails attached to it. It did subjectively plane higher than DPS, but I do dislike skimming the very top of the snow. BMX105 is something I would love to try, but to me it has too much overlap with FX95. Did you ski the wider BMX (I forgot the width, 115?) I am also intrigued by this year are the Head Kore series, either the 105 or 117.

If I could imagine my ideal powder ski that could be something in the mold of the departed Legend 115- rocketed tapered tip upfront, and a substantial but releasable tail in the back married to a flat or near flat camber in the middle. Kore is not quite that design, but getting close.

 

[WadeHoliday]

Good question, Alex.
It was a couple years ago when I skied it, and my memory was it was too wide for me, and I didn't like how the tip felt if I wasn't totally down "in" the snow. I only skied them a few runs, so quick impression.

bmx 115 was also too wide for me. I ski a pretty narrow stance, as you may recall, and wider then around 100-105 feels like I have to contrive my stance to make them work. I also feel I don't have enough power to hold them up on a good edge angle, because they have more leverage to flatten themselves on the snow.

I have to admit, I'm feeling a little under conditioned this winter, and feel I want to try some softer skis. Also not spending as much time skiing steeps and bumps in loud snow makes me think I don't need such solid ski. I may even try some softer mid fats with a little more shape even though I've become so well connected to my fx95hp.

Maybe this new Kore is softer w/ more shape...

Cheers!
W

 

[Alexzn]

I was skiing the FX95HP in mostly cut up soft snow today. Such a good ski... I'm beginning to get it fully only now when I have a good number of days on them. Smoothes out the cutout up snow, almost never gets off course and the tail is there if and only if you need it. I do wonder if the BMX105 is all the resort powder ski one needs.

I see what you mean with the DPS112, I'm heavier, so it sinks a bit more for me. The tip does feel a bit floppy on 2D snow. The payoff for me is nearly automatic powder turns, superb tolerance for sloppy driving, and great manoeuvrability in the trees and bumps.

I probably would be happer now with a bit stiffer powder ski with more tail feel, I think I ski better now than 4-5 years ago when I bought mine so the preferences have changed. But interestingly, dps112 were a total game changer in 3D snow for my wife, who used to be afraid of the powder, and avoid it as much as she could. One day on the DPS in the right conditions and everything had literally changed. So the benefits of that niche ski for a less technically skilled skier are probably higher.

 

[Wade]

I just wrapped up 6 days as Aspen Highlands, Aspen and Snowmass on my SN 108 186s (I'm 6'1", 190 lbs). Conditions ranged from needing to hunt for soft snow early in the week, to a couple of days of 6 or so inches that skied deeper on the right aspects late in the week.

I use the SN 108s as a western travel ski. I find that they do most things pretty well (for a ski in this category), and that held up again this week. On the drier days this week, I would have preferred to be on something narrower, but they perform well enough to be fun on softish groomers, and are good in soft, left over snow.

I find them to be a very good resort powder ski. They float pretty well in untracked, have enough back bone to ski fast through chop, and are easy to shape in to different turns.

My only real criticism of them is durability. I have maybe 50 days on them, and they look more like it's 500. Cracked edge, chunks missing from top sheet, small areas of delamination, and a base that doesn't absorb hits as well as I'd like. Everything has been repairable, and they ski much better than they look, but the quality hasn't been what I'd hoped for. To be fair, I haven't babied them, and skied some lines I might not have if I was very concerned about damaging the skis.

I have a bunch more damage to repair when I get home this week (more delamination and a some core shots), but I'm hopefully that these will make it through the season. I'd quite happily own another pair of SN 108s, but am also interested in trying the BMX 105s and the Storm Rider 107s. Hopefully an opportunity comes up to demo before the Supernaturals give up the ghost.

 

[Sierrajim]

Alex, WadeH:

First, thanks for the review Wade. I skied the Elan Rip 106 on Wednesday and I'm thinking you might want to try it. Not a better ski than the SN 108 but different enough that I think you'd like it. Alex, I'm liking your thinking on the BMX 105. I'm planning a pretty large spread with Kastle next year and will be featuring the FX 95 and BMX 105 in both versions. I think I'd really like the 95HP and probably the 105 in the nonHP version. I hope to get demos this spring if they have skis for me to borrow or buy.

SJ

 

[Tony S]

I ski a pretty narrow stance, as you may recall, and wider then around 100-105 feels like I have to contrive my stance to make them work. I also feel I don't have enough power to hold them up on a good edge angle, because they have more leverage to flatten themselves on the snow.

I resemble that remark! Well articulated. For me, 100mm is about the limit if there is any hardpack to speak of.

Back to the main thread ... have you been on the Völkl 100Eight? Several here like that ski a lot. (Several don't.) Fits some of your criteria. Can't compare with the other skis you've mentioned on that width band, but it definitely does not ski like a 5-point design. Splay is very small over a very long run. Tail is pretty traditional. Tip taper modest. Skis more forgiving than it looks. My sense is that they manage this with flex pattern - stiffish at the ends and softish in the center, based on amateur hand flexing and 8 or 9 days skiing haply on it.

I would love to be able to contrast with the BMX 105. Fondled one (non-HP) in the shop earlier this week. Pretty confident I would like that ski, too. (Been spending a fair amount of time on its little brother, the FX 85, which is less of a niche ski where I am.)

 

[Alexzn]

Alex, WadeH:

First, thanks for the review Wade. I skied the Elan Rip 106 on Wednesday and I'm thinking you might want to try it. Not a better ski than the SN 108 but different enough that I think you'd like it. Alex, I'm liking your thinking on the BMX 105. I'm planning a pretty large spread with Kastle next year and will be featuring the FX 95 and BMX 105 in both versions. I think I'd really like the 95HP and probably the 105 in the nonHP version. I hope to get demos this spring if they have skis for me to borrow or buy.

SJ

Would be happy to test drive the Kastle demos

 

[BMC]

Hi I'm curious to hear any further updates on the SN 108. I just bought one (as an Oz skier having already had my Japanese play for the year) so won't get to ski it until 2018 in Niseko. I'm around 200kg an advanced but not expert recreational skier.

I haven't mounted them yet and the options are Tyrolia Adrenalin 13 AT bindings, or Marker Griffon bindings. I think the skis are probably too heavy for AT bindings and for that reason, together with the marginally better ski connection on standard Alpine bindings, I'm aiming for the Markers but I'm curious to hear feedback.

Intended use is Niseko powder days. I don't think they'd get any use in Oz.