Need help with technique on steeps

[razie]

What is the best technique for avoiding the cameraman, on steep runs? I'm not happy with this...




Some of the things I'm thinking to try: more steering, flexing the other leg, tip the lifted inside leg more. Other ideas?

Am I lifting the wrong inside foot? Am I tipping it enough? Looks like my vertical separation is smaller than my horizontal separation?

p.s. Change in rythm after those word-ladden tech backs and forths we're used to...

 

[KingGrump]

Am I lifting the wrong inside foot?

Wrong inside foot? You have another one?

 

[Yo Momma]

Flip to "Switch" go around then flip back! Your technique is on point! Nice turns.... but looks like you're "shifting-alot" ... ha ha ha..... (kidding... love the "Sir Shiftalot!)

 

[crgildart]

Don't be afraid to throw them sideways and spear or check it. Everything doesn't have to be a pure carve..

 

[ThomasD]

Just straight line until he moves. Easy peasy.

Maybe a little pole plant action to better define your turns?

 

[dbostedo]

You've got it backwards... Just make the camera man avoid you.

 

[Bad Bob]

Spraying the cameraman can create a very nice effect.
Can piss off the cameraman but everything has it's challenges.

 

[Jilly]

Better camera person? How about a real video camera instead of a phone. More features....zoom?

 

[Seldomski]

Is this your cameraman?

 

[Henry]

"What is the best technique for avoiding the cameraman"
Don't look at the cameraman. Look at the clear spot you want to ski through. We go where we're looking.

 

[tromano]

 

[bmoose21]

What is the best technique for avoiding the cameraman, on steep runs? I'm not happy with this...




Some of the things I'm thinking to try: more steering, flexing the other leg, tip the lifted inside leg more. Other ideas?

Am I lifting the wrong inside foot? Am I tipping it enough? Looks like my vertical separation is smaller than my horizontal separation?

View attachment 155164

p.s. Change in rythm after those word-ladden tech backs and forths we're used to...

T

What is the best technique for avoiding the cameraman, on steep runs? I'm not happy with this...




Some of the things I'm thinking to try: more steering, flexing the other leg, tip the lifted inside leg more. Other ideas?

Am I lifting the wrong inside foot? Am I tipping it enough? Looks like my vertical separation is smaller than my horizontal separation?

View attachment 155164

p.s. Change in rythm after those word-ladden tech backs and forths we're used to...

Nice skiing. The thing is that those are connected arc-to-arc turns, & if that is your focus it limits your line and sometimes you have to bail. At times like these you can ask yourself, What Would Hirscher Do?

 

[razie]

The thing is that those are connected arc-to-arc turns, & if that is your focus it limits your line and sometimes you have to bail.

I heard this line of thinking before.

It always puzzled me honestly, that someone could assume that skiing hip to snow arc to arc slalom turns is easier than pivoting or stivoting, that clean early engagement is easier than fuzzy late engagement, that not allowing the ski to pivot when flat is easier than pivoting a flat ski especially when we're talking short turns

I know that instructors love to say this about racers, that they can just hold an arc...

P.s. talking avoidance, requires direction change - so would you get more direction change and deflection by pivoting a flat ski or bending an engaged ski in a tight arc?

Tactics wise - what exactly did that stivot/redirection help Hirscher do in that gate?

 

[bmoose21]

I heard this line of thinking before.

It always puzzled me honestly, that someone could assume that skiing hip to snow arc to arc slalom turns is easier than pivoting or stivoting, that clean early engagement is easier than fuzzy late engagement, that not allowing the ski to pivot when flat is easier than pivoting a flat ski especially when we're talking short turns

I know that instructors love to say this about racers, that they can just hold an arc...

P.s. talking avoidance, requires direction change - so would you get more direction change and deflection by pivoting a flat ski or bending an engaged ski in a tight arc?

This has nothing to do with easier or harder... what you are doing in the video is very hard. It's just reality that certain turns can't be pulled off with out the skis 'redirecting' or disengaging & re-engaging the snow. Or, in some cases the turn could be pulled off arc-to-arc but in fact would be slower than a more direct line that is still possible to ski cleanly. The misconception I held myself for some time is that such redirection is slow and will result in skidding or energy loss but that isn't always the case. If the skis re-engage the snow in the direction the center of mass is already moving the arc can still be skied cleanly. Also, this redirection is often difficult to discern on video - sometimes it appears that the ski is cutting arc-to-arc but it is actually turning more quickly high in the arc than it would if the sidecut were engaged.

 

[Tony Storaro]

What is the best technique for avoiding the cameraman, on steep runs? I'm not happy with this...

Very nice!

 

[François Pugh]

Dissengage/reingage is the only way to suddenly change direction beyond what the ski was designed to carve.

Sometimes we get so focused on the turns we are making we don't notice that if extrapolated ahead, they won't line up with avoiding something ahead until it's almost too late. When we notice, we gotta do what we gotta do.

Plan ahead so you don't have to dissengage/reingage the edge to avoid the cameraman.

 

[razie]

This has nothing to do with easier or harder... what you are doing in the video is very hard. It's just reality that certain turns can't be pulled off with out the skis 'redirecting' or disengaging & re-engaging the snow. Or, in some cases the turn could be pulled off arc-to-arc but in fact would be slower than a more direct line that is still possible to ski cleanly. The misconception I held myself for some time is that such redirection is slow and will result in skidding or energy loss but that isn't always the case. If the skis re-engage the snow in the direction the center of mass is already moving the arc can still be skied cleanly. Also, this redirection is often difficult to discern on video - sometimes it appears that the ski is cutting arc-to-arc but it is actually turning more quickly high in the arc than it would if the sidecut were engaged.

Ok, you meant it in the general case. Fair enough.

Yes, in general racers will chop the line when possible, it is however riskier. Were not talking average club racers, which most can't ski slalom cleanly and pivot because they lack speed control, but good racers that could ski it clean but chose a more direct line.

That all to common assertion, that racers can only do arc too arc (which you didn't make, to be fair, it somehow seemed implied too me, my bad). It's true that many won't do nice short turns, but they can pivot at will. I have this, whenever this comes up, a decent racer that never worked on short turns, the opposite, always focused on carving whatever he could for years, making his first ever attempt at short turns (I just cut the first few turns when he was trying to get his head around it):


@François Pugh sure, just one thing-the radius is not based on the ski only, but also on the skier: the 13m SL ski can turn at around 3-4m, when at high edge angles.

It's funny, but the planning got me in this pickle, methinks. I had planned to make one more turn and stay on that side, but got busy calculating, the brain got in the way and hesitated at the entry into the last turn, letting the skids shoot in front and entered it to far back, still made the turn but couldn't keep them back anymore and couldn't make that one more turn I planned that's my story and I'm sticking to it

 

[François Pugh]

Ok, you meant it in the general case. Fair enough.

Yes, in general racers will chop the line when possible, it is however riskier. Were not talking average club racers, which most can't ski slalom cleanly and pivot because they lack speed control, but good racers that could ski it clean but chose a more direct line.

That all to common assertion, that racers can only do arc too arc (which you didn't make, to be fair, it somehow seemed implied too me, my bad). It's true that many won't do nice short turns, but they can pivot at will. I have this, whenever this comes up, a decent racer that never worked on short turns, the opposite, always focused on carving whatever he could for years, making his first ever attempt at short turns:


@François Pugh sure, just one thing-the radius is not based on the ski only, but also on the skier: the 13m SL ski can turn at around 3-4m, when at high edge angles.

It's funny, but the planning got me in this pickle, methinks. I had planned to make one more turn and stay on that side, but got busy calculating, the brain got in the way and hesitated at the entry into the last turn, letting the skids shoot in front and entered it to far back, still made the turn but couldn't keep them back anymore and couldn't make that one more turn I planned that's my story and I'm sticking to it

I know, and we agree. A 13-m side-cut radius ski is not designed to cleanly carve turns less than 3 m in radius. The ski also has to move forward while changing it's shape, and it takes time to align the mass for the new situation. Constraints, that can only be bypassed by interupting the cleanly carved turn and repositioning and realigning the skis, when you need to change direction more quickly.

BTW my traditional short radius (non carved turns) suck big time, but I can carve very clean turns; guess what I spent the most time perfecting over the last 4 decades.

BTW2, One only has to watch the kids on the race team go around their sl gates to know that they get plenty of practice scraping turns (or you could just go look at the ice they scraped up).
BTW3, I'm no race coach, not even a ski instructor, but I am an over-educated engineer and a skier.

 

[razie]

One thing about direction change though. It still requires engagement. Those awesome short turns from Richie etc, their body generally gets little deflection. I think this redirection discussion it's more about where to make the turn, not about how to make the turn. The ski changing direction does not affect the body without engagement, so you'll still hit the obstacle, without the engagement needed.

The thing about a proper slalom turn, it requires a 2-3m or so deflection. That's the hard part about it, especially if you try to keep the rythm. The redirection may help change the timing and line, i.e. where you turn but does not help with the deflection.

 

[razie]

Anyways, enough with this racing arc-ing nonsense... this is my current playground ...