New mid to full size SUVs?

[noobski]

How do you like the Acura dealership?
FWIW I have an older MDX which I really enjoy and the only reason I would not get another one is the dealerships near me are horrible. Luckily I have a longstanding relationship with a Honda dealership which had an Acura dealership that closed a few years ago. The head mechanic is well versed with my generation MDX. Shout out to Reno Acura because they are truly what I believe Acura would want a dealership's service department to be. But in my local area even with 3 dealerships within 50 miles they all suck so bad that I won't purchase a new MDX because I don't want to deal with them.

Great question!

This is the #1 reason we didn't buy the car yesterday and why I asked about people's experiences. She's now test driven 6 other cars (Explorer, Atlas, GX460, Ascend, Cherokee LTD, Cherokee L LTD) and loved this car. I thought it was great too. The car was used, but very low mile 2022. Owner passed away shortly after buying the car and so the dealership bought it back. The car is in truly nice shape from what I can tell and comes with an extended warranty. The car has actually been there for about a month. They finally dropped the price $3k and that's why we went to look since prior to that it was priced as if it were brand new.

But the dealership experience was a big turn off.

The two sales people we spoke with were totally fine and pleasant to work with, but the sales manager was not. He talked down to my wife; acted like he could care less if we bought the car. Basically take it or leave it attitude. The car had two minor cosmetic issues (Paint chip through the paint itself and a cup holder break). Both should be easily fixed and he not only didn't have interest in fixing them, but appeared quite annoyed she even asked. He ultimately agreed to consider it if we bought the car, but no commitment on it. He also suggested about 50% of Autotrader comparable value on my wife's existing Touareg. I never expected to trade in and planned to sell on our own, but that was shockingly low given her car is fully maintained (coincidentally by their VW dealership that they also own), new tires, and still under 100k miles. I don't care that much about the trade in issue since it's going to be easy to sell this car, but the way they described why they'd pay so little for the car seemed insincere.

All of it totally turned my wife off. She was super excited about the car and then this guy pretty much shut it down. Interesting psychology there because logically we shouldn't care about the sales manager "this much" if the car is good, but the experience concerns both of us about dealing with future issues. It's really hard to spend that type of money on a car when the experience is like that.

Similar to your situation, this particular dealership is the only dealer in a 100 mile radius unfortunately as well and they unfortunately also own the Honda dealership as well, so if she wants the car, she kind of has to go with this place.

She's sleeping on it and plans to decide this week on something (or just pausing for a while given how crazy it's been). She's going to test drive the Highlander and Telluride this week as well given the experience yesterday. (The Telluride finally back in at the local dealership to actually look at it, however with a $5k mark up!).

The good news is that she's in no rush. Her current car is old, but running just fine so we have time if she walks away from this one.

 

[François Pugh]

Great question!

This is the #1 reason we didn't buy the car yesterday and why I asked about people's experiences. She's now test driven 6 other cars (Explorer, Atlas, GX460, Ascend, Cherokee LTD, Cherokee L LTD) and loved this car. I thought it was great too. The car was used, but very low mile 2022. Owner passed away shortly after buying the car and so the dealership bought it back. The car is in truly nice shape from what I can tell and comes with an extended warranty. The car has actually been there for about a month. They finally dropped the price $3k and that's why we went to look since prior to that it was priced as if it were brand new.

But the dealership experience was a big turn off.

The two sales people we spoke with were totally fine and pleasant to work with, but the sales manager was not. He talked down to my wife; acted like he could care less if we bought the car. Basically take it or leave it attitude. The car had two minor cosmetic issues (Paint chip through the paint itself and a cup holder break). Both should be easily fixed and he not only didn't have interest in fixing them, but appeared quite annoyed she even asked. He ultimately agreed to consider it if we bought the car, but no commitment on it. He also suggested about 50% of Autotrader comparable value on my wife's existing Touareg. I never expected to trade in and planned to sell on our own, but that was shockingly low given her car is fully maintained (coincidentally by their VW dealership that they also own), new tires, and still under 100k miles. I don't care that much about the trade in issue since it's going to be easy to sell this car, but the way they described why they'd pay so little for the car seemed insincere.

All of it totally turned my wife off. She was super excited about the car and then this guy pretty much shut it down. Interesting psychology there because logically we shouldn't care about the sales manager "this much" if the car is good, but the experience concerns both of us about dealing with future issues. It's really hard to spend that type of money on a car when the experience is like that.

Similar to your situation, this particular dealership is the only dealer in a 100 mile radius unfortunately as well and they unfortunately also own the Honda dealership as well, so if she wants the car, she kind of has to go with this place.

She's sleeping on it and plans to decide this week on something (or just pausing for a while given how crazy it's been). She's going to test drive the Highlander and Telluride this week as well given the experience yesterday. (The Telluride finally back in at the local dealership to actually look at it, however with a $5k mark up!).

The good news is that she's in no rush. Her current car is old, but running just fine so we have time if she walks away from this one.

Describes every toyota or honda stealership I've ever visited, with one exception, the young man I saw recently about a GR86 - I almost want to go back and buy it just to reward that salesman. Other than that one exception all the salesmen were like your sales manager. Not helpful, projected an attitude of could not care less if I bought a car there or not. It's almost like they had predetermined that I was not going to buy a car and was just wasting their time.

As to the weak offer on trade in, that's just standard operating procedure for car dealerships. At least the high-offer for the trade in, matched with a similar increase in price on what they sell you, seems to be gone.

 

[wooglin]

Only time I ever use sport mode is when passing on a two lane road. Comes in really handy then.

 

[Tom K.]

Great question!

This is the #1 reason we didn't buy the car yesterday and why I asked about people's experiences. She's now test driven 6 other cars (Explorer, Atlas, GX460, Ascend, Cherokee LTD, Cherokee L LTD) and loved this car. I thought it was great too. The car was used, but very low mile 2022. Owner passed away shortly after buying the car and so the dealership bought it back. The car is in truly nice shape from what I can tell and comes with an extended warranty. The car has actually been there for about a month. They finally dropped the price $3k and that's why we went to look since prior to that it was priced as if it were brand new.

But the dealership experience was a big turn off.

The two sales people we spoke with were totally fine and pleasant to work with, but the sales manager was not. He talked down to my wife; acted like he could care less if we bought the car. Basically take it or leave it attitude. The car had two minor cosmetic issues (Paint chip through the paint itself and a cup holder break). Both should be easily fixed and he not only didn't have interest in fixing them, but appeared quite annoyed she even asked. He ultimately agreed to consider it if we bought the car, but no commitment on it. He also suggested about 50% of Autotrader comparable value on my wife's existing Touareg. I never expected to trade in and planned to sell on our own, but that was shockingly low given her car is fully maintained (coincidentally by their VW dealership that they also own), new tires, and still under 100k miles. I don't care that much about the trade in issue since it's going to be easy to sell this car, but the way they described why they'd pay so little for the car seemed insincere.

All of it totally turned my wife off. She was super excited about the car and then this guy pretty much shut it down. Interesting psychology there because logically we shouldn't care about the sales manager "this much" if the car is good, but the experience concerns both of us about dealing with future issues. It's really hard to spend that type of money on a car when the experience is like that.

Similar to your situation, this particular dealership is the only dealer in a 100 mile radius unfortunately as well and they unfortunately also own the Honda dealership as well, so if she wants the car, she kind of has to go with this place.

She's sleeping on it and plans to decide this week on something (or just pausing for a while given how crazy it's been). She's going to test drive the Highlander and Telluride this week as well given the experience yesterday. (The Telluride finally back in at the local dealership to actually look at it, however with a $5k mark up!).

The good news is that she's in no rush. Her current car is old, but running just fine so we have time if she walks away from this one.

Bummer!

But, IMO, the right car at the right place from the wrong source is still the right car.

Especially in the current environment.

 

[In2h2o]

Great question!

This is the #1 reason we didn't buy the car yesterday and why I asked about people's experiences. She's now test driven 6 other cars (Explorer, Atlas, GX460, Ascend, Cherokee LTD, Cherokee L LTD) and loved this car. I thought it was great too.

But the dealership experience was a big turn off.

The two sales people we spoke with were totally fine and pleasant to work with, but the sales manager was not. He talked down to my wife; acted like he could care less if we bought the car. Basically take it or leave it attitude.

All of it totally turned my wife off. She was super excited about the car and then this guy pretty much shut it down. Interesting psychology there because logically we shouldn't care about the sales manager "this much" if the car is good, but the experience concerns both of us about dealing with future issues. It's really hard to spend that type of money on a car when the experience is like that.

Similar to your situation, this particular dealership is the only dealer in a 100 mile radius unfortunately as well and they unfortunately also own the Honda dealership as well, so if she wants the car, she kind of has to go with this place.

She's sleeping on it and plans to decide this week on something (or just pausing for a while given how crazy it's been). She's going to test drive the Highlander and Telluride this week as well given the experience yesterday. (The Telluride finally back in at the local dealership to actually look at it, however with a $5k mark up!).

The good news is that she's in no rush. Her current car is old, but running just fine so we have time if she walks away from this one.

First there is something about the MDX that works for an 'average' height female - my co-workers' wife is about my height 5'4" and has some back issues, they are on their third MDX lease because it works well for her. Visibility for a shorter person is a big deal.

Its not so much as the "sales person" because you will only deal with them once. What about the service department? I will sum up my experience as one service department was incompetent, one flat out lied to me, and one told me perhaps I should have my "husband" check the oil.....and treated me like a helpless female. (for the record, my father was cheap and worked on all of our cars and I was the assistant - I probably know more than the average male when it comes to cars).

Unfortunately I have the last year the MDX had the 3.7 liter engine which potentially has an oil consumption issue. It was on the cusp of warranty for this issue when I purchased my MDX from a private party. The car was in truly mint condition and had lower miles for its age but I was concerned about potential oil issue. FWIW on that year MDX Acura deems 1 quart of oil per 1K miles as normal consumption. Since my Honda with 250k+ burns no oil with the 3.5-liter engine I wanted to make sure that I didn't have an issue. This is where the inconsistency in the service departments came to light - #1 said I passed, #2 said I failed. The one that said I failed told me I was 2 quarts low. Which was impossible b/c I checked the oil before I dropped it off (they did not seal the cap like #1 did). Previously when I initially purchased it I took it to dealership #3 to get an estimate for the 100K service which it needed and they let me leave with 1.5 quarts low despite me asking them to check the oil. My Honda mechanic eventually did the 100K service, I monitor the oil, it burns none the first 1K and then maybe .5 for every 1K after, I get an oil change sooner than later. Since this was a car purchased as an "extra" car while my daughter used the Honda for school, bought pre-pandemic at a great price I've 'let it go' that I have to monitor the oil. You should not have this issue as they changed back to the tried and true 3.5 liter engine for all subsequent years. Compared to my past experiences, Reno Acura was the total opposite. Had the part I needed, fixed my car in a few hours, and I had an honest and open conversation about the oil consumption and other potential issues to look out for on that model year with the service adviser. No bullshit. Totally refreshing.

I understand where you are at as far as trying to find a vehicle that you like. The reason I bought the used MDX several years ago was b/c there was nothing new that really wowed me. It was a better ride than the Honda and with the SH-AWD an easy pick for driving to the mountain. I was originally going to sell the MDX by now, and get something new, but given the current market, I'll be keeping the MDX for a while. I am also intrigued by the KIA Telluride but not that many dealerships around. Its good that you have the current car and you are not in a rush. I would try to check out the service department as that's where you will be spending the most time. My co-worker deals with dealership #1 (which also up charges on most services compared to #2 and #3), but since they lease and trade up every 3 years they don't really care that much about how the car is serviced and probably only deal with oil changes and brakes if that. My next purchase will be more for future "retirement" life, so also re-thinking what we really need.

 

[Snowfan]

For crap mistreatment from dealers leave reviews on yelp, google and most important https://www.dealerrater.com/ Hate the way Noob's wife was disrespected in post 41.

 

[noobski]

For crap mistreatment from dealers leave reviews on yelp, google and most important https://www.dealerrater.com/ Hate the way Noob's wife was disrespected in post 41.

Thanks!

 

[noobski]

Okay, we've officially tested everything on our list including the Telluride which apparently is an endangered species...(Highlander, Cherokee, Cherokee L, MDX, Telluride, Ford Explorer ST, Subaru Ascend, Lexus GX 460)

Did not like the Telluride by the way.

We've narrowed it to the MDX A-Spec (with a different seller 100 miles away who carries 5 of them right now) and the 2022 Grand Cherokee L Overland (the Lexus GX 460 is a close 3rd). She drove the Limited early winter and liked it a lot, but I wanted to see the difference with the Overland Trim, today was the first time we could find an Overland. It is a really nice vehicle.

The MDX and GC-L are pretty different vehicles, but we're both personally favoring the Cherokee L but by a small margin to the MDX.

Anyone have Grand Cherokee L opinions/experience?

 

[Ken_R]

Okay, we've officially tested everything on our list including the Telluride which apparently is an endangered species...(Highlander, Cherokee, Cherokee L, MDX, Telluride, Ford Explorer ST, Subaru Ascend, Lexus GX 460)

Did not like the Telluride by the way.

We've narrowed it to the MDX A-Spec (with a different seller 100 miles away who carries 5 of them right now) and the 2022 Grand Cherokee L Overland (the Lexus GX 460 is a close 3rd). She drove the Limited early winter and liked it a lot, but I wanted to see the difference with the Overland Trim, today was the first time we could find an Overland. It is a really nice vehicle.

The MDX and GC-L are pretty different vehicles, but we're both personally favoring the Cherokee L but by a small margin to the MDX.

Anyone have Grand Cherokee L opinions/experience?

If it were me I would buy the Lexus GX460 all day, very capable off road vehicle, proven reliable, solid (but not efficient) v8 and enough tech to keep anyone happy. If not then the Acura. I have had 3 Honda Pilots over the years (first and second gen) and they have been extremely reliable and capable in the winter. One I had for 107,000 miles when I sold it. I currently own a Subaru Ascent and I love it but it only has 25,000 miles so long term durability is up in the air still. So far so good.

I was told to avoid Jeep products for the time being.

 

[noobski]

I was told to avoid Jeep products for the time being.

Thank you. The GX460s are hard to come by here currently, but good advice.

Can you expand on avoiding jeep?

 

[Ken_R]

Thank you. The GX460s are hard to come by here currently, but good advice.

Can you expand on avoiding jeep?

It seems FCA (Fiat Chrysler Automobiles) has not had the best track record regarding build quality / q.c. as of late. Also I dont love their engine choices although their 8 speed AT and 6cyl pentastar engine are proven. The electronics in the vehicles on the other hand... The body and suspension and body are solid in the Jeep GC and the Jeeps/Gladiators. Again, no first hand experience on this but it seems to be common knowledge to those in the know. In the Jeeps/Gladiators it is no big deal since they have outstanding resale values and are super easy to sell used but the Grand Cherokees are another story.

You will never really have a problem selling the Lexus later on unless you absolutely trash it.

 

[Philpug]

I have to agree with @Ken_R here. If the Acura, Jeep and Lexus are your top three and any of the three check the majority of your boxes, I would drop the Jeep which has the most suspect reliability/QC history, that is not the variable I would be willing to chance on.

 

[In2h2o]

@noobski any quick comments you'd like to share on the Telluride?

BTW I Can't believe the new Jeep Grand Wagoneer is 100K +

 

[Philpug]

@noobski any quick comments you'd like to share on the Telluride?

BTW I Can't believe the new Jeep Grand Wagoneer is 100K +

Starts at $91K IIRC. Give me a Yukon XL Denali diesel 10 out of 10 times over that.

 

[François Pugh]

Only time I ever use sport mode is when passing on a two lane road. Comes in really handy then.

Interesting. I'm doing research now (trying to choose a fun car), and it seems like these modes on higher end cars have gotten quite sophisticated, they do so many things from adjusting the suspension to how intrusive the traction control is, with modes like snow, eco, sport and track(my mazda 3 only has one level of intrusion on the traction control - I turn it off where I might need traction in deep snow, but otherwise just leave it on; it's nice to be able to floor it in the rain without having to get the pressure on the pedal just right, but I worry about loosing my touch - learned on muscle cars of old and some fast bikes with no computerized safety nannies aboard). I'm recently used to the cheaper ones that only control where the automatic transmission changes gears, and that gets over-ridden when you floor it (i.e. when I'm passing someone).

 

[noobski]

I have to agree with @Ken_R here. If the Acura, Jeep and Lexus are your top three and any of the three check the majority of your boxes, I would drop the Jeep which has the most suspect reliability/QC history, that is not the variable I would be willing to chance on.

Interesting...I'll have to research this further. It's an expensive vehicle to start and I'm not excited hear this about Jeep.

Personally I like the GX460 for all reasons stated. The MDX was great too, but as noted, the dealership failed in their treatment toward my wife.

 

[noobski]

@noobski any quick comments you'd like to share on the Telluride?

BTW I Can't believe the new Jeep Grand Wagoneer is 100K +

It just was meh...not to be flip or anything but it just felt like it was weak structurally and from a performance standpoint underwhelming. These are all feelings, not thoughts. It strikes me as a great "bang for you buck vehicle" which I think is certainly its strongpoint, but neither my wife or I thought it was fun or interesting as vehicles go. Just boring overall.

 

[my07mcx2]

Jeep keeps getting bad reliability reviews. Since you liked your Tourareg and you thought about a Q7 with 3.0? When i had to move my mother here to assisted living by me i sold my 17 A6 and picked up a CPO 19 Q7 and love it. I wanted something i could tow the boat with (7700 lb towing) and fun to drive. we took it on two trip to Colorado this past season and with a Thule Vector on top we averaged about 24 mpg running 85 mph.

Wife has a 18 Q5 and it has been super solid and zero issues with the exception of replacing tires.

 

[anders_nor]

cayenne? you get PAW on the, so up to 15 years warranty

 

[Philpug]

Interesting...I'll have to research this further. It's an expensive vehicle to start and I'm not excited hear this about Jeep.

Unfortunately Jeeps reliability history is spotty. I could see (risking?) getting one of there were no other viable but not only do you have options in this segment, you have two that are on your short list that are very good and reliable alternatives. I am not saying either the Acura or Lexus will not have issues but much better odds that they will not.