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Northern Rockies/Alberta Powder Mountain Building Three Public Chairlifts But Going Semi-Private

Mister Tea

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In Montana, Spanish Peaks and Yellowstone Club are private right next to Big Sky, but they were built with that intention.
What is the likelyhood that PM will eventually be completely private?
That would be sad.
Spanish Peaks couldn't make it as a private ski area, so it's now run by Big Sky and anyone with a Big Sky Pass can ski there. Or at least that's how it was a couple of years ago when I was there last.

But, having skied the Spanish Peaks runs, I have to say that nobody was missing very much.

Private members-only ski areas don't seem to do very well in the US so I'm skeptical that PoMo will fare any better than the others.
 

New2

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Spanish Peaks couldn't make it as a private ski area, so it's now run by Big Sky and anyone with a Big Sky Pass can ski there. Or at least that's how it was a couple of years ago when I was there last.

But, having skied the Spanish Peaks runs, I have to say that nobody was missing very much.

Private members-only ski areas don't seem to do very well in the US so I'm skeptical that PoMo will fare any better than the others.

I definitely agree that an all-private PowMow would likely not be a viable business. But once they start selling houses with the promise that the neighboring lifts will be private, homeowner-only, it's going to be a lot harder to switch those lifts back to public-access. Spanish Peaks managed it through a bankruptcy court... I suppose if it's leveraged enough, that might be an option here. But with all the rich people looking to relocate (or get a second home) from their posh gated communities in California, I think private ski communities still have the potential to sell well.
 

Mister Tea

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I seriously doubt that any prospective buyer is relocating. For that crowd it's more likely to be their fourth or fifth home.

I understand why the PoMo owners, observing the shit show that the Cottonwood Canyons has become, wants to address crowds, but don't think corodoning off a chunk of terrain for the one-tenth of one percenters is the best approach.
 

stevo

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I think the money people are making poor decisions at PowMow and the end result will be to make it a private a resort, or else bankruptcy and back to budget oriented skiing. but hey...we shall see. Putting a high speed quad on Paradise is just going to ruin it. The snow will be skied out in minutes. Private only access to Mary's and Cobabe canyon? Uhm, ok.. Lift up Lightening Ridge...ok... powder country is also going to be skied out in minutes. Soon as they put some lifts down to the road instead of a bus...then the whole place will be skied out in minutes. who's gonna pay $200/day for whatever is left?

PowMow is lower elevation than a lot of wasatch and a couple bad years will absolutely kill the ROI.

But hehe. ... people with too much money to burn holes in their pockets keeping trying to make something big out of the place, but honestly...i think they will just ruin it to a certain degree...for me its sad to see...but hey...we can hope they will fail partway through like the past 5 people to try...
 

Pdub

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Wow!
Our annual ski group booked 3 nights at Powder Mountain, having no idea what had happened. Skied there 5 or 6 times over the years but not recently. Logged in to reserve our days and was prompted to pay $229 a day! And as far as I can tell, no upgrades have been made to the lifts yet. So $229 for a bunch of old slow lifts and low angle terrain. They kept the mom and pop charm on the hill but upgraded the ticket office to billionaire status. Last time I think I paid 80 or 90 a day. Who is paying 229 a day for the same old Powmow? (Besides me!?)

I called to see if there were any discounts, and talked to customer service. No way no how, gotta pay to play. In fact they had the gall to tell me the higher prices would raise money for future improvements, as they transition to private. Improvements only the hedge fund crowd will ever see. Thanks...

I have skied 1500+ days in my life and have never paid anything close to 229. Our group is financially just fine, and we go to the big resorts (with help from the usual passes), but this is beyond the pale.

I know, that's skiing. High class problem. Just need to vent.

Never going back to Powder Mountain. Not that they want me anyway!
 
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johnnyvw

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Geez...glad I skied there before all this crap started to happen. Really sad, some of my best ski memories happened there.

and given who bought the place....not at all a surprise
 

AmyPJ

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Wow!
Our annual ski group booked 3 nights at Powder Mountain, having no idea what had happened. Skied there 5 or 6 times over the years but not recently. Logged in to reserve our days and was prompted to pay $229 a day! And as far as I can tell, no upgrades have been made to the lifts yet. So $229 for a bunch of old slow lifts and low angle terrain. They kept the mom and pop charm on the hill but upgraded the ticket office to billionaire status. Last time I think I paid 80 or 90 a day. Who is paying 229 a day for the same old Powmow? (Besides me!?)

I called to see if there were any discounts, and talked to customer service. No way no how, gotta pay to play. In fact they had the gall to tell me the higher prices would raise money for future improvements, as they transition to private. Improvements only the hedge fund crowd will ever see. Thanks...

I have skied 1500+ days in my life and have never paid anything close to 229. Our group is financially just fine, and we go to the big resorts (with help from the usual passes), but this is beyond the pale.

I know, that's skiing. High class problem. Just need to vent.

Never going back to Powder Mountain. Not that they want me anyway!
So are you still doing the trip this time? If so, I hope for that price you get endless powder! Because it's definitely not the best place without fresh snow. I do wonder if they'll start trying to financially benefit from the mountain biking there beyond charging for bike park lift tickets.

FWIW the same thing has happened to housing prices in the Ogden area (never mind the Ogden Valley, where PowMow is located!) It's insane!
 

silverback

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Putting a high speed quad on Paradise is just going to ruin it.The snow will be skied out in minutes.
Are you sure? How many riding up the new Paradise quad will be going straight to the new Timberline/Lightning Ridge base to lap Lightning vs skiing Paradise terrain? Will the new Paradise chair even deliver more butts per hour to the top?

The snow will be skied out in minutes. Private only access to Mary's and Cobabe canyon? Uhm, ok.. Lift up Lightening Ridge...ok... powder country is also going to be skied out in minutes. Soon as they put some lifts down to the road instead of a bus...then the whole place will be skied out in minutes. who's gonna pay $200/day for whatever is left?
How will the new Lightning Ridge chair affect Powder Country? More people will ride Sundowner without the cat riders? Makes no sense to me. If anything, I forsee less traffic on Powder Country and also the other side of the road in Woody’s World. I’ll normally lap those two areas on my way to the Lightning cat to make a big loop. Without the cat, the loop would likely exclude Sundowner and you’d just get off at the bus at Timberline to get to the new Lightning chair. Easy to forget Powder County if you aren’t riding up the chair that accesses it.

By moving hundreds of people away from Hidden Lake towards Paradise & Lightning, will the powder in Sanctuary last longer? Hidden Lake gets a lot of use by people who prefer high-speed chairs now, will those riders spend more time lapping Paradise? I think the behavior changes are hard to predict.
 
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givethepigeye

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Headed out there in early March to meet up with some folks - never been, they have. If it doesnt snow, what did I sign up for? I did notice that my route in/out will pass right by Snowbasin - so I guess I can get a couple laps in there.
 

silverback

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Headed out there in early March to meet up with some folks - never been, they have. If it doesnt snow, what did I sign up for? I did notice that my route in/out will pass right by Snowbasin - so I guess I can get a couple laps in there.
Typically, if it hasn’t snowed in weeks, and/or the off piste is unskiable for some reason, lonely skiing down long groomers. Mostly you can expect a slow paced and quiet day exploring a huge place.

If you work a little, this is 10 days after the last snowfall.
IMG_4711.jpeg
 
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stevo

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@silverback i think no doubt the lightening ridge will pull some thunder away from paradise but lightening ridge will ski out very very fast. It will open up hiking easier to James peak etc It’s all an improvement but in general easier and faster access equals skied out quicker and more people. Thankfully for now they are going to charge nearly $300 on a pow day and that will keep the crowds down a bit but I suspect they will fine tune their pricing until the balance of crowding to $$ maxes out dollars at whatever price they decide to charge. I kind of like the idea of $300 pow days, it’s like a cheap cat skiing day as far as I’m concerned but we shall see how that pans out
 

Pdub

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To their credit, they lowered the daily price for our two days in mid Feb. Obviously that could rise if there is demand.
Maybe they read this thread?!
 

Skigal

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This was another rumored concern when the Summit kids bought it. Something about access being a county road creates some huge hurdles but we all know that money talks.

It has been interesting living in the Ogden Valley for the past 23 years & watching the saga of Powder Mountain. From the time the Cobabes (original owners) sold it till now there have been 4ish different owners all with grandiose plans. The first had plans for an airstrip at 8000’ & even had a golf course laid out where Brim trail is now.
The next wanted to incorporate & call it Powder Town, l think it was a scheme to steal water rights or something. This idea met hostile opposition from the surrounding community & was shut down.
Then Summit who actually followed through & did some of what they set out to do & now Reed Hastings has taken the reigns with his $3.5 billion backing him.


As for Catskiing, there is already Monument Ranch which encompasses a ton of surrounding terrain.
2 years ago the deal makers where looking for investors to put a private lift off James Peak into the DMI area which is terrain only accessible with hired guided skiing now. Skied that terrain frequently back in the day & it is really some of the best up there.
View attachment 218251

There is also scrapey’s which is past the north boundary of James Pk. but can put you back to the base of Paradise without much effort.
What people need to realize is that PowMow ain’t all that without frequent snow.
I’d better stop before I say too much ;)
Much of Powder Mountain Is surrounded by private land owners. Beware of criminal trespassing and the huge fines that it brings. The surrounding land owners are starting to be fed up and are seeking legal council.
 

Skigal

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This was another rumored concern when the Summit kids bought it. Something about access being a county road creates some huge hurdles but we all know that money talks.

It has been interesting living in the Ogden Valley for the past 23 years & watching the saga of Powder Mountain. From the time the Cobabes (original owners) sold it till now there have been 4ish different owners all with grandiose plans. The first had plans for an airstrip at 8000’ & even had a golf course laid out where Brim trail is now.
The next wanted to incorporate & call it Powder Town, l think it was a scheme to steal water rights or something. This idea met hostile opposition from the surrounding community & was shut down.
Then Summit who actually followed through & did some of what they set out to do & now Reed Hastings has taken the reigns with his $3.5 billion backing him.


As for Catskiing, there is already Monument Ranch which encompasses a ton of surrounding terrain.
2 years ago the deal makers where looking for investors to put a private lift off James Peak into the DMI area which is terrain only accessible with hired guided skiing now. Skied that terrain frequently back in the day & it is really some of the best up there.
View attachment 218251

There is also scrapey’s which is past the north boundary of James Pk. but can put you back to the base of Paradise without much effort.
What people need to realize is that PowMow ain’t all that without frequent snow.
I’d better stop before I say too much ;)
Most of Scrapey's is on private land...but most people don't give a hoot about trespassing as long as it gets them what they want.
 

4ster

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Most of Scrapey's is on private land...but most people don't give a hoot about trespassing as long as it gets them what they want.
Yeah, l spoke with a patroller yesterday & he confirmed that Scrapey’s was on private land. He seemed to think that Powder Mountain owned land adjacent & lower down but not the top. I haven’t seen tracks in there for years except once last season.
I know it was a learning experience for me when I moved here from Tahoe. Around where I live in Tahoe almost all open space is now forest service land and you are pretty free to ski or go anywhere. When I moved to the Ogden Valley and began exploring first on my mountain bike (there weren’t many mountain bike trails or mountain bikers 20+ years ago) and later on skis, I came to realize how much of the land was private. Then going from Snowbasin which borders mostly forest service land to Powder Mountain which is private. I asked a lot of questions but for a long time never got any definitive answers. Back then areas like DMI were not marked with no trespassing signs or boundary and rope lines. That has changed significantly in the last decade.

Much of Powder Mountain Is surrounded by private land owners. Beware of criminal trespassing and the huge fines that it brings. The surrounding land owners are starting to be fed up and are seeking legal council.
I know there was some dispute that one of the MTB trails infringed on private land & as a result was closed for awhile. I haven’t crossed a boundary in years, wouldn’t want to jeopardize my pass.
Are you a land owner?
 
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givethepigeye

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Typically, if it hasn’t snowed in weeks, and/or the off piste is unskiable for some reason, lonely skiing down long groomers. Mostly you can expect a slow paced and quiet day exploring a huge place.

If you work a little, this is 10 days after the last snowfall.
View attachment 223257
Back from UT w/ couple days at Powder Mountain. Basically untracked all day pow for both days. Skiing down to the road to catch a bus back up was a first for me. Super chill place.
 

4ster

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I kind of suspected this may happen eventually. 2 years ago there were rumors of a private lift going in here but with a $2 million per person initial investment it was never realized. We used to ski this terrain regularly when it was simply DMI. Lots of great & interesting terrain with many aspects. It will be interesting to see where the lift placement will be. I always envisioned a high capacity lift (preferably a Funitel) from parking in Wolf Creek to the top of Sundown which could solve the road issues.
IMG_4062.jpeg

It was my go to during Covid in 2020…
IMG_5538.jpeg
 
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