Thank you for sharing your experience! I am in PA.
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Really wide feet youth racer
- Thread starter tube77
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it can be stretched out a long way, and ground some more, but it is down to the individual foot and its biomechanics, chances are the boot does not need to be stretched 15mm (regardless of the foot measuring that, as how the measure a boot and how you measure the foot are not going to be identical)
in PA, search out Billy Kaplan at Performance Pedorthics, more than just a boot fitter! [email protected]
in PA, search out Billy Kaplan at Performance Pedorthics, more than just a boot fitter! [email protected]
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2016
- Posts
- 364
There has been some good response to the OP questions. As a lurking boot fitter out here, I think it is important to comment where it might make the OP's level of understanding helpful in solving the fit issues in the future. Lets start by attempting to clear up the guesses and the rumors...
My kid goes to 2nd year U12 this coming season.
If he is a second year U12, he will be 11 up until December 31, 2021. If he is already 12 before December 31, 2021 he is a first year U14.
He’s grown quite quickly during the pandemic and now he’s 5’3 and 142lbs.
You could try not feeding him or having him start smoking cigarettes
As far as I measure at home, he needs 26.5 mondo with 110~115mm last boots.
I take offense at the statement that he needs a 26.5. He is either 11 or 12 and only 5'3" Very suspect that he needs a 26.5. This is the crux move of solving the conundrum of what size and shape boot will be most appropriate. The problem us boot fitters have is that we know by experience that the measurements done at home by mom or dad will not be the same as the measurement that a trained bootfitter will get. The issue being the tools used, the position that the athlete is measured in, and the bias of parents that think that getting into big shoes and boots is a right of passage that they can brag about at the country club. That said the premise of this entire thread is built around opinion and not fact. Not to be the guy that lurks around out here throwing icewater on these posts, there is no way that his foot actually measures 26.5 and 110 to 115. I will bet my first born male child, that the responders to this thread are chasing a ghost...
Last season I was able to put him in Lange junior RS 70 boots after 5 visits of well-known boot fitter.
5 times to a well known boot fitter is ridiculous for an 11 year old racer in a Lange RS 70. What is this well known boot fitter well known for? Drinking coffee and banging on a bench in the back with a hammer? The solution is either made with proper assessment and proper model selection on day one, and then posssibly some re-fit work on another day, but 5 trips means that guy owes you some money.
It was a tired process but the fitter was finally made it fit. That time my kid’s foot last was measured around 103mm.
By who and what measurement? That RS 70 in a 26.5 shell is a 98 width across the forefoot.
So it was at least fittable when his last was around 103mm but now he has 115mm last.
Sorry, but I have to challenge these dimensions... Was/is he really 103 last year and already stated but I would like to see his foot to confirm his 115.
So what boots options could be even possible or fittable going forward for him.
Any Jr race boot in the proper flex will be easy for a skilled bootfitter to adjust to what ever the width and girth of his foot.
I dont think he can go with any junior racing boots from now on..
Myth, rumor, and innuendo. This statement is factually false. He can be comfortably fit in any Jr Race boot from 70 flex to 110. Keeping in mind that flex selection is not just about dead weight. It has to be a combination of dead weight, muscle strength, coordination, skiing skill set, athleticism, and the flexibility of his ankle joint in dorsiflexion, and no, you cannot measure that at your house either. Unless you have been trained to assess ankle ROM.
He’s just 12 and goes podium in his age group.
You should be very proud of your son. This has no bearing on which boot brand, model, size, and flex that he ends up with.
I would like him stay with racing boots if possible but I don’t know how much it can be stretches.
Infinitely, so this point is a non issue...
Any racing parents or former racers has similar headaches?
Yes, however most of the headaches are a result of terribly trained boot fitters and parents that become very deeply involved in the kids equipment without the skill set and knowledge to be helpful. The real problem is the lack of talent in the bootfitter pool. My parents used to like the old guy that sold me my stride rite shoes and how we should throw out the shoes and keep the boxes. I grew up thinking that I had really wide feet. It turns out that my feet are between C and D width, which is pretty average. Yes it was comical but far from factual. Apparently my parents thought they were more wonderful when they believed that they had a son with wide feet.
Sure I will talk to boot fitter first when he’s open but I would like to have at least some idea what route I can take.
Do not waste one minute of your boot fitters day by talking about all of the false details you have provided here. A waste of your time and the boot fitters. Make an appointment with a bootfitter well known for excellent assessment and listening skills and have your athlete do all the talking and the answering of the questions that the bootfitter will have.
I dont like the idea of having him in an adult wide foot recreational boot like Hawx Magna as one shop last year recommended.
Run, don't walk from any bootfitter that spews that brand of hoo ha. But also reference the above comment as your athlete should not be having a conversation with a competent bootfitter about any recreational models
Any advice ahead would be appreciate!
My kid goes to 2nd year U12 this coming season.
If he is a second year U12, he will be 11 up until December 31, 2021. If he is already 12 before December 31, 2021 he is a first year U14.
He’s grown quite quickly during the pandemic and now he’s 5’3 and 142lbs.
You could try not feeding him or having him start smoking cigarettes
As far as I measure at home, he needs 26.5 mondo with 110~115mm last boots.
I take offense at the statement that he needs a 26.5. He is either 11 or 12 and only 5'3" Very suspect that he needs a 26.5. This is the crux move of solving the conundrum of what size and shape boot will be most appropriate. The problem us boot fitters have is that we know by experience that the measurements done at home by mom or dad will not be the same as the measurement that a trained bootfitter will get. The issue being the tools used, the position that the athlete is measured in, and the bias of parents that think that getting into big shoes and boots is a right of passage that they can brag about at the country club. That said the premise of this entire thread is built around opinion and not fact. Not to be the guy that lurks around out here throwing icewater on these posts, there is no way that his foot actually measures 26.5 and 110 to 115. I will bet my first born male child, that the responders to this thread are chasing a ghost...
Last season I was able to put him in Lange junior RS 70 boots after 5 visits of well-known boot fitter.
5 times to a well known boot fitter is ridiculous for an 11 year old racer in a Lange RS 70. What is this well known boot fitter well known for? Drinking coffee and banging on a bench in the back with a hammer? The solution is either made with proper assessment and proper model selection on day one, and then posssibly some re-fit work on another day, but 5 trips means that guy owes you some money.
It was a tired process but the fitter was finally made it fit. That time my kid’s foot last was measured around 103mm.
By who and what measurement? That RS 70 in a 26.5 shell is a 98 width across the forefoot.
So it was at least fittable when his last was around 103mm but now he has 115mm last.
Sorry, but I have to challenge these dimensions... Was/is he really 103 last year and already stated but I would like to see his foot to confirm his 115.
So what boots options could be even possible or fittable going forward for him.
Any Jr race boot in the proper flex will be easy for a skilled bootfitter to adjust to what ever the width and girth of his foot.
I dont think he can go with any junior racing boots from now on..
Myth, rumor, and innuendo. This statement is factually false. He can be comfortably fit in any Jr Race boot from 70 flex to 110. Keeping in mind that flex selection is not just about dead weight. It has to be a combination of dead weight, muscle strength, coordination, skiing skill set, athleticism, and the flexibility of his ankle joint in dorsiflexion, and no, you cannot measure that at your house either. Unless you have been trained to assess ankle ROM.
He’s just 12 and goes podium in his age group.
You should be very proud of your son. This has no bearing on which boot brand, model, size, and flex that he ends up with.
I would like him stay with racing boots if possible but I don’t know how much it can be stretches.
Infinitely, so this point is a non issue...
Any racing parents or former racers has similar headaches?
Yes, however most of the headaches are a result of terribly trained boot fitters and parents that become very deeply involved in the kids equipment without the skill set and knowledge to be helpful. The real problem is the lack of talent in the bootfitter pool. My parents used to like the old guy that sold me my stride rite shoes and how we should throw out the shoes and keep the boxes. I grew up thinking that I had really wide feet. It turns out that my feet are between C and D width, which is pretty average. Yes it was comical but far from factual. Apparently my parents thought they were more wonderful when they believed that they had a son with wide feet.
Sure I will talk to boot fitter first when he’s open but I would like to have at least some idea what route I can take.
Do not waste one minute of your boot fitters day by talking about all of the false details you have provided here. A waste of your time and the boot fitters. Make an appointment with a bootfitter well known for excellent assessment and listening skills and have your athlete do all the talking and the answering of the questions that the bootfitter will have.
I dont like the idea of having him in an adult wide foot recreational boot like Hawx Magna as one shop last year recommended.
Run, don't walk from any bootfitter that spews that brand of hoo ha. But also reference the above comment as your athlete should not be having a conversation with a competent bootfitter about any recreational models
Any advice ahead would be appreciate!
Amen
Thank you!
All I can say is wow, what an insult to the kid and parent. First you call the kid fat and second you tell the parent they don’t know their size or what they are talking about.
Shame on you
, we wonder why people feel bullied.Just as a reference, at that age my daughters was about the same ht, wt and mondo size (though not as wide). No she was not fat by any means (nor did she look heavy), heavier bone and solid muscle from swimming 14hrs a week, yes her feet grew early to a 26.5 and have remained that size since. If my daughter saw your comments at that age, devastating, now (at 21) she’d smile nice to lure you in close and then bend into a pretzel for making the comment.
Final thing, when a parent comes and says help because they don’t know the solution and provide the best information they can, don’t insult even in jest. Guide, point in the right direction, but what you did paints everyone negatively giving advice.
To the OP, get a good fitter that has access to selection, at this age good fit that allows skill development are the most important. Remember you are looking for the best balanced solution without breaking the bank, cause you likely have few more expensive rounds of this to go until he reaches full size.
FWIW, I'm pretty sure Otto was being very tongue in cheek about size and weight.
And yes, Otto is being direct about sizing based on years of experience, observation, and working with this demographic, including the parents. Part of his tone is also push back against the opinion that a wide recreational boot should be used.
And yes, sometimes boot fitters and coaches do know more than parents. They're paid because they do.
And yes, Otto is being direct about sizing based on years of experience, observation, and working with this demographic, including the parents. Part of his tone is also push back against the opinion that a wide recreational boot should be used.
And yes, sometimes boot fitters and coaches do know more than parents. They're paid because they do.
rather than "pruning" ( which may mean something completely different in the Queen's English ) ,
I would suggest simply closing this thread - and let it serve as a cautionary to many - including myself .
it is stunning to me, the inaccurate or incorrect claims, assumptions, and ( something else, that is found in the posts in this thread ) , from the insulting statements about the size of an eleven year old or twelve year old, to the idea that his father does not know how to measure his feet. ... to the idea that . . .
Enough.
tube has a range of information - and the internet can be useful for that.
Thank you, Phil, Tricia, and crew... skiJ
Ski J, you're shooting the messenger. There's a reason why well regarded industry pros hesitate to post here.... including myself. I'll bow out of further boot fitting discussions... and fathers often don't understand how a measurement transfers to boot fit.
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Spot on. I am the one who paged @otto in post #2, as I was quite certain that he could be very helpful, given his incredible specific experience and expertise with race boots....fitting U10's through actual WC racers over many decades. We are fortunate that he will check in here, as we are fortunate to have you doing the same.
Ski J IS "shooting the messenger." Let's keep that in mind when posting, race parents.
Thanks, @markojp.
( I acknowledge marko's message - I deny I am 'shooting the messenger' -
I have a long message drafted in response to marko ; I will 'sleep on it. '
" race parents. " God help me. ... skiJ )
I have a long message drafted in response to marko ; I will 'sleep on it. '
" race parents. " God help me. ... skiJ )
Maybe a 5'3" 11 year old is highly unlikely to have a 26.5 long foot.
Maybe this one is the one in a million that does.
One thing we can all agree on is that in the absence of the foot, nobody can say what size or model would work best over the internet. That's why in-person boot fitting with a good boot-fitter is required for a "near-perfect fit".
However, "Podiums often" does imply something about ability, strength and skill, which implies to me that a race boot would be the best match.
It's also highly unlikely, IMHO, that a half dozen return visits would be required if the fitter knew what he was doing, and started from the right point. Unlikely, but not unpossible
Maybe this one is the one in a million that does.
One thing we can all agree on is that in the absence of the foot, nobody can say what size or model would work best over the internet. That's why in-person boot fitting with a good boot-fitter is required for a "near-perfect fit".
However, "Podiums often" does imply something about ability, strength and skill, which implies to me that a race boot would be the best match.
It's also highly unlikely, IMHO, that a half dozen return visits would be required if the fitter knew what he was doing, and started from the right point. Unlikely, but not unpossible
We all can agree that this parent/child combo will not get a boot fit online and is best to get this one into a shop. Lets leave the it at that and before any more feelings and egos get bruised, I am closing the thread.
I will add though, I never heard the following phrase and I will be stealing it.
I will add though, I never heard the following phrase and I will be stealing it.
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