Technique Skiing with a backcountry backpack: do you adjust your technique?

[Mendieta]

Hi all

I am getting adjusted to my new BC gear, mostly inbounds and sidecountry. One of the things I noticed is the size and weight of the BC backpack. I carry water, battery pack, food, shovel, probe, etc. It feels like the backpack itself moves your center of gravity slightly rear. Is that a known thing? Do you adjust your technique for it? Or your gear (binding placement, delta, etc.) Or nothing?

I do remember how the instructor i worked with when I was getting started with skiing hated for me to show up, even with a small backpack. Because of "how it throws off your balance". Of course those were baby steps on groomers, very different animal.

I ran a quick search and didn't find discussion of this, but please point me to the right thread if it has been discussed before. And thanks for any thoughts!

 

[pais alto]

Yes, it’s known.
Yes, a slight technique adjustment may be in order - slight.
No (for me) to equipment adjustment.

Practice. I’ve skied a lot, a whole lot, with touring packs and patrol vests so I really don’t even notice - slight technique adjustment is almost automatic.

 

[cantunamunch]

It has been talked of.

It usually takes me 3-4 days to change balance point and I wouldn't even think of taking technique instruction whilst wearing one.

 

[Mothertucker]

It will only affect your skiing if it's laden with too much gear, it may take some getting used to though. I cannot remember the last time I skied without one, inbounds or out.

 

[Rod9301]

My backpack weighs about 20 lbs. No adjustment needed.

 

[Mendieta]

It will only affect your skiing if it's laden with too much gear, it may take some getting used to though. I cannot remember the last time I skied without one, inbounds or out.

Right, I made the decision to always wear it, since I'll rather not be adjusting back and forth. But it's only been about 5 ski days.

Is there any known "thing to do" or is it more of a natural re-positioning that you do subconsciously?

What I noticed is that I tend to try to move my COM forward, and I certainly supermanned a couple times, probably overcompensating for both the BC Skis mount point (further back than my resort skis) and the backpack. Using the backpack with my resort skis seems to need less adjustment, which makes sense of course, since there is only one variable in play.

 

[Mothertucker]

Right, I made the decision to always wear it, since I'll rather not be adjusting back and forth. But it's only been about 5 ski days.

Is there any known "thing to do" or is it more of a natural re-positioning that you do subconsciously?

What I noticed is that I tend to try to move my COM forward, and I certainly supermanned a couple times, probably overcompensating for both the BC Skis mount point (further back than my resort skis) and the backpack. Using the backpack with my resort skis seems to need less adjustment, which makes sense of course, since there is only one variable in play.

I just think it is so ingrained as part of my kit I don't even consider it anymore, I do not compensate for it. Once you start doing bigger missions, like overnight trips, it gets more difficult.

 

[Pequenita]

For me, skiing with a pack makes me notice existing bad habits, e.g., hinging at the hips in a misguided attempt to get forward. If the pack fits well, it's an extension of your body and the main thing is using core strength to maintain the upright position. Anyway, that was the main thing I noticed this winter when I skied in/out of a backcountry hut with a full overnight pack, so I would imagine that it's a similar but more subtle thing with a smaller pack. Also, I later realized that I had subsconciously kept my hands in front of me all. the. time. when I had the larger pack on. I don't know if I did that by necessity to maintain balance, or if I just had no place else to put my arms/hands while skiing. lol

 

[In2h2o]

What I noticed is that I tend to try to move my COM forward, and I certainly supermanned a couple times, probably overcompensating for both the BC Skis mount point (further back than my resort skis) and the backpack. Using the backpack with my resort skis seems to need less adjustment, which makes sense of course, since there is only one variable in play.

Check your delta on your BC binding vs your resort set up. Ironically with my high heeled dynafits I loved skiing with a pack as it seemed to pull me back and balance out that too far forward feeling. I just swapped to lower delta bindings last week, haven't skied w/ a full pack yet, but I regularly ski with a small pack inbounds all the time, I think it balances me. I do think as @Pequenita mentioned if the pack fits you correctly you don't notice.
The superman is concerning, I would check mount and delta.

 

[Crank]

I guess it's a slight adjustment. I becomes unconscious or subconscious after a while. No need to wear it all the time.

 

[Mendieta]

Check your delta on your BC binding vs your resort set up.

Interesting! I just did! The delta on the Attacks (on my resort skis) is about 1mm (Heel higher than AFD). On the Shifts it is about 6mm!

I read a bit and it seems like a high delta tends to send the skier forward in a way that in many cases wind up on backseating. I certainly feel a lot more in the back in these. But also, I do wind up over the handle bars sometimes.

So, as for the main question in the thread, there seems to be consensus that the adjustment for a larger backpack is fairly minimal, but in my case, I might need to look into binding delta. I am probably struggling the most to adjust to a higher delta from a delta neutral setup.

I also did some research, and it seems like there aren't that many safe places for adjusting delta.

Oh, my two Lange boots are supposed to have the same ramp, at least per specs.

Oh well! Thank you all for the help! It's probably best if I open a thread for the binding delta issue. Cheers!

 

[Rainbow Jenny]

Having been on the same hut trip as @Pequenita, I did not trust myself on the descend with a pack close to 30% of my body weight. I end up traversing a lot.

But in thinking about how to get more forward in your stance to compensate, with dorsiflex the ankles and hip forward. And do I do it? Nope, I’m in survival mode. Hinging at the hip will get you even further aft, so that’s not helpful.

I’ve posed @Mendieta question to other instructors before but haven’t gotten any satisfactory or practical advice. I think they are usually excessively intolerant of skiers with a pack and cannot relate to the weight shift since they don’t ski tour.

But thankfully I’m not skiing with such a big pack that often, usually a 10 pounds packs are quite manageable.

 

[In2h2o]

@Mendieta for a quick fix you may want to look into shimming the toe of your shift binding. B&D makes shims for a lot of touring bindings but for the shift they had this on the website:

Saloman Shift- contact us. sales @bndskigear.com​

Skimo Co in Utah also sells these shims and has great customer service (call or email) and will help with making sure you have the right screws.

I tried shimming my dynafit with the 6.2 shim last year and it wasn't enough. I ended up putting the Marker Alpinist 10 on which is one of the lowest delta touring bindings. (some sources say 0 some say 2mm). TOTALLY AMAZING, I wish I would have switched a long time ago. I am super sensitive with a short BSL and excessive dorsiflexion and after getting my Alpine set up sorted out last year, I started working on my touring set up with I always felt like I skied "laterally," well, bc I was pitched so far forward. For a great explanation about this from Brent Amsbury, start at 35:40



Mods feel free to move this if a new thread is started.....

 

[Mendieta]

Thank you @In2h2o ! I moved the discussion to Thread 'Pimp my Shift bindings: delta and heel click.'