subtleties or is colour the deciding factor ?

[surfski]

Following my first year assessing the mountain that will be home for winters in future, i have gone from in essence piste only narrow skis, to appreciating my wider Kastle MX 74 skis can be a lot more fun when the conditions get variable and cut up. Also i wish to begin to ski off piste, to open up possibilities of the area that is skiable for me.
I have a great deal to learn as my only previous focus has been technical on piste carving.
I am looking to add a ski in the 80 mm waist range to aid float and versatility, and had planned to buy MX83 skis currently on sale
To gain experience and to test out the difficulty of tipping a ski that is much wider for me I hired a pair of Stockli AR
So to the heading above and colour the AR'S match my outfit great so tick box 1 which is of course the most important thing
I am 163cm tall 140 lbs and hired the 175 length being the shortest available, Stockli recomendation is 165.
I found the ski surprised me in multiple ways. Despite the 2* presumed side edge the grip on hard pistes was better than expected. I thought the tips a little 'flappy' but without any disturbance to control i could speak off, and when i opened up the throttle on a clear empty piste everything was comfortable and remaining centered on the skis easy.
While i came to no conclusions about the ski and it's suitability for my needs I did find i wanted to keep skiing and at the end of the day while some areas of my body knew i had been on a wider plank i had enjoyed a very fun day including ventures into the deeper but heavy snow between pistes.
So for those who know the AR and the MX83 how might i find the comparison in the correct lengths, which i think are 165 for AR and 168 for MX83
I can not demo the MX83 but really like the 74. The Stockli i would have to buy next season no doubt at full money.
The plan would be to mount either with Attack 14 or Pivot bindings if that would make a difference
I appreciate this sort of question is personal opinion and i am open to other suggestions but currently would not wish to go wider due to concern of the added load to my knees, and think mid 80's ought to provide plenty of float at my size.

 

[Tony S]

There's a lot more to ski design than width. The MX83 is essentially the same ski as the MX74, only slightly wider. If you're keeping the 74, and buying a second ski for more 3D snow, bumps, etc., then I'd suggest demoing something in the 85-90mm range with more of a true all mountain design, rather than a "wide carver" like the MX or AR. If you're looking at premium brands, the Stormrider 88 would be a candidate over the AR, IMHO, and the FX 86 over the MX.

 

[surfski]

Thanks Tony in essence i presume you give up some hard snow grip, dampness ? but gain in getting a more automatic turn when tipped through perhaps a softer flex and maybe tip rocker ?
I love what i love for on piste but I admit that a ski that is both fun and will hold my hand learning to ski some thicker heavy snow that is well messed up is worth all due consideration so long as they are not a flapping nightmare on hard icy pistes because i am very likely to ski that getting to the off piste and ive never seen the light fluffy powder you perhaps get in Japan and the west coast that is always for some other lucky devils.
I am in Austria and have access to Stockli, Fischer, Atomic (backland ? ) Volkle and to my surprise Blossom I can buy in Kastle Van Deer and Augment but can only demo some skis

 

[cantunamunch]

Don't forget that reshaping your line and changing the rate of inputs/tipping are some of the biggest factors under your control - and therefore highest priority learning goals.

Automatic turn in is therefore not necessarily laudable - and may be downright evil in dense or wet loose snow.
Dampness is related to how you get feedback from the ski and I submit is rather individual.
Softer ski flex - your original post tells us you already know about those tradeoffs.
Knee aches - might be width but might also be from steering inputs to a net longer ski in loose snow?

It sounds like you have plenty of skis that could work for your use case available in your area.

 

[Tony S]

Thanks Tony in essence i presume you give up some hard snow grip, dampness ? but gain in getting a more automatic turn when tipped through perhaps a softer flex and maybe tip rocker ?
I love what i love for on piste but I admit that a ski that is both fun and will hold my hand learning to ski some thicker heavy snow that is well messed up is worth all due consideration so long as they are not a flapping nightmare on hard icy pistes because i am very likely to ski that getting to the off piste and ive never seen the light fluffy powder you perhaps get in Japan and the west coast that is always for some other lucky devils.
I am in Austria and have access to Stockli, Fischer, Atomic (backland ? ) Volkle and to my surprise Blossom I can buy in Kastle Van Deer and Augment but can only demo some skis

Automatic turn in when tipped comes with a more carving design like the AR/MX. As Tuna points out, the more 3D the conditions, the less of that you want. You don't want your tips to lock onto the side of every steep mogul, for example; you want to finesse the slip/grip equation in that situation. Softer flex and a little rocker, yes.

The more you bow to your concerns about "flapping nightmares on hard icy pistes" the more you of a hurdle you will have learning to ski off-piste, potentially creating a cycle of frustration. At some point you have to give up one thing to get another thing.

 

[Jilly]

Geez...I a girl and I don't think my skis (or boots) have matched my suit. I know for sure I would not wear an orange jacket and my skis are orange.

And if your skis are covered in snow, no one will know what colour they are.

(I can't ski wide skis, so I'm not help with those)

 

[surfski]

come on Jilly always choose skis and boots to go with choice of jacket and trousers everyone knows that

 

[surfski]

looks like there could be a lot of effort to test in my future once i know what next years colours are of course

 

[cantunamunch]

come on Jilly always choose skis and boots to go with choice of jacket and trousers everyone knows that

You know better yet.

Boot colour to match or highlight helmet and goggles. To paraphrase Diana Vreeland, the rest will take care of itself.

 

[cantunamunch]

looks like there could be a lot of effort to test in my future once i know what next years colours are of course

Don't think of testing. Think of flirting with a view to an affair.

 

[James]

not a flapping nightmare on hard icy pistes because i am very likely to ski that getting to the off piste and ive never seen the light fluffy powder you perhaps get in Japan and the west coast that is always for some other lucky devils.

Haha, Kastle skis are generally flapper extraordinaires.
From day 1, 10-12 yrs ago when they came here. But…not in the “nightmare” I think you’re referring to. That would be heavily rockered and reverae cambered skis on piste.

Sounds like you should go Augment/vandeer which are more piste oriented like that Stockli AR.
For the money, the Volkl Kendo probably ticks all your boxes. You just have to live with the feel of it, which is not the feel of an Augment or Stockli. You also might not like their design decisions. At least try it for a baseline.

I have the Kastle Fx 96ti, and the feel of that wins no prizes from me either. Noisy flapper. (But not huge flapping like I think you mean. You can essentially ignore it like a rattling car that doesn’t really affect how it drives)

 

[surfski]

Boot colour to match or highlight helmet and goggles. To paraphrase Diana Vreeland, the rest will take care of itself.

Great im all good then, helmet does of course match the main ensemble, boots Lange for an all blue day or head raptor but the RS 130 NOT B2's as they have yellow buckles to pick up with the yellow jacket zip. Naturally i chose the MX74 as these have the blue hollow tech.

I have the Kastle Fx 96ti, and the feel of that wins no prizes from me either. Noisy flapper. (But not huge flapping like I think you mean. You can essentially ignore it like a rattling car that doesn’t really affect how it drives)

I think when i returned to skiing we hired skis and as 10 years ago all i remember is they had tip rise and an automatic turn to them and thinking this is real boring not what im used to in a proper ski from a lot of years before.
Now with so many new ski 'categories' while my attitude is you can use any tool if you have or develop the skills to use them im older not necessarily wiser but wanted to look to see if this is outdated and im missing out a whole lot. skidding or slarving around nothing wrong with that but has never appealed to me and i think i can use what i have to ski the most of the mountain, HOWEVER some areas others ski are tight and steep with trees in the way !!!. not having those skills a part of me thinks that the right ski would help and give me some safety margin if i take it too far unintentionally.

In a way while i know what i need to for piste skiing this is an area i feel like im starting from scratch, i have to keep it fun, i have to keep it as safe as i can ie: calculated risk and now seem to be in almost a minefield of widths, lengths, design and so forth.

Don't forget that reshaping your line and changing the rate of inputs/tipping are some of the biggest factors under your control - and therefore highest priority learning goals.

Always working on this all the time on piste probably always will

Automatic turn in is therefore not necessarily laudable - and may be downright evil in dense or wet loose snow.

Thank you this is perhaps the opposite of what i thought so noted BIG TIME, twisting my knees in wet loose grabby snow is one reason ive thought about pivots rightly or wrongly and high on my concerns list

Dampness is related to how you get feedback from the ski and I submit is rather individual.
Softer ski flex - your original post tells us you already know about those tradeoffs.
Knee aches - might be width but might also be from steering inputs to a net longer ski in loose snow?

No im sure this was the width as im very body aware and could feel increased work load in certain muscles and following morning muscles around my dodgy hip felt as though they had had a gym workout, this is to me a good thing as I am trying to stabilise the joint so the head stays in the socket where it is supposed to be

It sounds like you have plenty of skis that could work for your use case available in your area.

Seems so but im told Fischer is in some trouble unfortunately from covid shut down etc

 

[James]

I wouldn’t worry about Fischer being in trouble. It’s not like you need replacement parts. Augment didn’t sell in the US this year. Of course they didn’t really sell any before, other than to people on this site apparently.

 

[tch]

Time to weigh in on the all-important aesthetics element with a story from several years ago: I was sitting in a shop in Steamboat getting new footbeds as a woman was being fitted for new boots. They were mostly purple with black accents. Her friend was cruising the aisles and popped up holding a pair of black and purple skis. "These would match your new boots perfectly!" she exclaimed. Woman #1 promptly told the salesman "I'll take 'em". No idea on her part what the skis were, how they skied, anything about them.
But they matched!

 

[surfski]

i would ask if you have her phone number but different continents and being married and all that

 

[Tony Storaro]

Time to weigh in on the all-important aesthetics element with a story from several years ago: I was sitting in a shop in Steamboat getting new footbeds as a woman was being fitted for new boots. They were mostly purple with black accents. Her friend was cruising the aisles and popped up holding a pair of black and purple skis. "These would match your new boots perfectly!" she exclaimed. Woman #1 promptly told the salesman "I'll take 'em". No idea on her part what the skis were, how they skied, anything about them.
But they matched!

Look at it differently: for someone who picks a ski that way it really doesn’t matter what brand they are or how they ski.

 

[surfski]

says the man who might be leading in posts complaining about ski graphics

 

[Tony Storaro]

says the man who might be leading in posts complaining about ski graphics

Nonsense. I have very specific complaints to a very specific brand of skis which I am fully aware what they are capable of. I don’t pick the ski so they match my anything, I am just holding them up to their own standards.
Excuse me for not readily swallowing all the shit they try to shove down my throat.

 

[cantunamunch]

The laddie doth protest too much, methinks.

 

[surfski]

For those not taking things too seriously the obvious, the elephant in the room is I asked a to me serious question. Were the colour to be of top importance then there is no thread here to talk about. Obviously I would not care or be curious and the choice is to go and buy the 'perfect colour match' pair of skis the current Stockli AR.
I do like the AR graphics as it happens and but mostly i enjoyed the ski and i had fun although too long, and I was truly stumped as to why and whether the MX would suit me better.
If you look at my thread about pivot bindings there is the opinion that the MX are not a "freeride" ski fair enough I took this onboard and set out to learn more, look further afield and open my mind and options.
I do not have the budget to buy endless skis on spec and i need to choose something out of the myriad options which will work well enough to fullfill its purpose for next years planned adventures or it will become a hanger queen.
Perhaps it is my English humour or lack of any, but i seemed to have hooked a fish or maybe even two.