subtleties or is colour the deciding factor ?

[James]

Your humor is pretty good. Anytime you can land one on Tony it’s a good sign. Though that is fish in a barrel.

I think you should try some skis before buying. Especially since you’re coming from using the words MX and freeride in close proximity. I suppose the famous 98 in it’s day would kind of qualify.

Are ski rentals in Austria decently tuned? I’ve had some pretty bad ones in Switzerland and France.

 

[Tony Storaro]

The laddie doth protest too much, methinks.

You wanna go on the ignore list mate? No problems.

 

[surfski]

Are ski rentals in Austria decently tuned? I’ve had some pretty bad ones in Switzerland and France.

I can only speak for the Intersport we hired from Stockli SC and Atomic Q9 for she who doesnt like Orange and must be obeyed, the Stockli GS, SX and AR for myself. The AR had a fresh tune which helped the grip given i use 3 deg side edges usually. The SX and I did not get on and i suspect the tune was off but didn't take the time to inspect them closely

 

[ARL67]

MX83 in 168 vs AR in 165 … why not AR 170 ?
I have the last Laser AR in 175 before the change to Montero, and love it - spent 2 days on it in St. Anton and 2 in Ischgl in early March. Though I find my AR much more groomer oriented in shape, but was no problem in later day skied out slopes and bumps on the way back to the bottom. I haven’t been on any Montero so cannot comment. Coincidentally I have new flat MX83 168 hopefully arriving tomorrow, so I could post pics of tips and tails against my AR if of interest. My crew of guys just booked to be Ischgl-based for Feb 2025

 

[surfski]

MX83 in 168 vs AR in 165 … why not AR 170 ?

Simple really I used the stockli site and at 163 and if at fighting weight of 133lbs they recommend the 165. What are your stats.
I suppose also that while my wife says im a dare devil and some would regard my skiing as aggressive (i dont like the term) I am 68 retired and have gone through a LOT of various injuries lucky to be here really including from skiing, so while i definately wish to go into this area I am not confident about it.

I have the last Laser AR in 175 before the change to Montero, and love it - spent 2 days on it in St. Anton and 2 in Ischgl in early March. Though I find my AR much more groomer oriented in shape,

Here is where i have a problem what is groomer shaped ? I am yet to understand for example what makes a ski piste as opposed to it now being AM ? and what and when put it into FREERIDE ? they are all skis designed to do a job.
Is it for example the width ? seems many seem to categorise skis based on this or is it a combination of shape ? and are we talking side cut ? or the tip and tail rocker or lack of.
I have watched video of tip and tail shapes in plan view and how the tail for example will or wont help the tail release.
Also it seems weight not height does a lot to decide the best length and in the end there are those who like to ski longer be it for stability turn shape or whatever.

but was no problem in later day skied out slopes and bumps on the way back to the bottom. I haven’t been on any Montero so cannot comment. Coincidentally I have new flat MX83 168 hopefully arriving tomorrow, so I could post pics of tips and tails against my AR if of interest. My crew of guys just booked to be Ischgl-based for Feb 2025

Great I hope you get plenty of snow. We semi plan to begin in November at Kitzsteinhorn for early practice and to be able to get my boots finally chosen canted, no one where we live or around does sole planning, although of course there may be a new seasons colour come out and that could decide for me

 

[surfski]

Hey ARL67 I have only just seen you as Ontario my first skiing back following injury that took me to college at 36yrs so a ski break of maybe 12 years was to Banff
Friend and I skied sunshine and Lake louise, could enjoy 6 runs at mach speed on GS race ski's before others got onto the mountain, actually bumps one area the largest ive seen hmmm well except the Wall between France and Switzerland i think it is (loooong time ago) skied the wall multiple times in my third week on skis ever and to this day regard myself as lucky to not have broken my neck during a rag doll fall that went on and on. I digress the point is the ski area does make a difference here I regard myself very fortunate to have a home and to be able to ski and have a wife who still skis at 76 and skis fast enough now in her new boots to cause me concern ha ha but it is not super high ive not yet seen a proper bump field sadly as moguls used to be where i went every chance i got. The areas are i think relatively small and off piste some areas skied i think will be best avoided by me always as to worry my wife that much would not be fair, but even for what i plan to do I think the ski will need to be fairly nimble and some dedicated practice put in, getting used to ski reactions and so on

 

[ARL67]

My H/W is 5'8" 160 lbs 57 yo ( posted in my signature ).

I think of a front-side groomer ski as mostly all-camber in the ski, no or very little rocker, and no or very little taper. Though a ski like say a Volkl 72/76 Master has some rocker, but very little splay. It's sidecut is meant to make use of the subtle rocker as the ski gets tipped on it's side. That, combined with the skis flex, makes it what it is, and whether we like it or not.

We also have a few "wide-groomer" type of skis, such as the Atomic Q.98, which are usually 84mm +/- underfoot, which are mostly front-side oriented but have a little bit more versatility. We also have "narrrow all-mountain" skis, such as Brahma 82 which have mostly a flat tail but a tip with visible rocker, taper & splay. My Laser AR ( 83 wide ) has a Marker Piston Plate on it with X-Comp binding, installed by previous owner. I'm sure it would have stiffened it up, provided more direct control from binding to ski, and made it even more of a wide groomer oriented ski -> I think of it as a wide GS ski.

You really need to try a few and see what works for you in the conditions you plan to ski them, and see what you gravitate towards.

And great to hear of your trip to Banff-area long time ago !

 

[surfski]

My H/W is 5'8" 160 lbs 57 yo ( posted in my signature ).

Thanks my bad i wasn't awake about the bio's

I think of a front-side groomer ski as mostly all-camber in the ski, no or very little rocker, and no or very little taper. Though a ski like say a Volkl 72/76 Master has some rocker, but very little splay. It's sidecut is meant to make use of the subtle rocker as the ski gets tipped on it's side. That, combined with the skis flex, makes it what it is, and whether we like it or not.

We also have a few "wide-groomer" type of skis, such as the Atomic Q.98, which are usually 84mm +/- underfoot, which are mostly front-side oriented but have a little bit more versatility. We also have "narrrow all-mountain" skis, such as Brahma 82 which have mostly a flat tail but a tip with visible rocker, taper & splay. My Laser AR ( 83 wide ) has a Marker Piston Plate on it with X-Comp binding, installed by previous owner. I'm sure it would have stiffened it up, provided more direct control from binding to ski, and made it even more of a wide groomer oriented ski -> I think of it as a wide GS ski.

You really need to try a few and see what works for you in the conditions you plan to ski them, and see what you gravitate towards.

And great to hear of your trip to Banff-area long time ago !

Thank you ive been researching and learning since my last post but. your explanation for me sums things up neatly in a nice package, and has given me increased clarity and focus about things.

 

[crgildart]

I can make 90% of the skis out there do 90% of what I want them to do any given moment. If it was 100% about performance I'd still only be skiing a 2-3 pair quiver. Image is everything after that. I get subconsciously insecure about skiing older looking gear that still suits 95% of my performance needs. I definitely fall for that shinier, newER looking ski every other year or so..

I'll even match my jacket, pants, and poles to whatever colors the ski I choose is on that day.

 

[surfski]

I can make 90% of the skis out there do 90% of what I want them to do any given moment. If it was 100% about performance I'd still only be skiing a 2-3 pair quiver. Image is everything after that. I get subconsciously insecure about skiing older looking gear that still suits 95% of my performance needs. I definitely fall for that shinier, newER looking ski every other year or so..

I'll even match my jacket, pants, and poles to whatever colors the ski I choose is on that day.

yea yea but what about boots I have red with black two pairs yellow and grey blue and white with black and white with yellow

I take the view that if my skill levels were good enough I could use any ski i have to go anywhere I choose to go, so totally agree HOWEVER i know that in the deeper thicker and heavy piles if i make a wrong move and twist at all rather than coordinated tipping moves and the ski is grabbed my knees well they wont like it.
I would not choose to venture into this stuff with my GS or SL skis but am certain many would do so confidently. I do think that the MX 74 or the LX 72 would be okay however the 72's which are a nice flexy easy going light ski could be used however the binding play on that ski annoys me so in my head I began by looking at what may be a safer binding and from there it is okay would more width be better because "50,000 Frenchmen cant be wrong " ( i contest this ) and success breads success so if i can help myself gain early success and confidence by use of skis better suited or more particularly will aid my learning that seem's like a good idea.

My wife wont join me in this im sure however if I can ski this terrain with some ease and come back with a huge smile well we will have to see but maybe she will as well. Her balance and poise on skis is IMO good she used to teach ICE dance which i think gave her a good foundation but at 76 she knows about injuries too from others knocking her flying so again the less crowded areas might work out thinking ahead dunno and it will be her choice. The more i learn and experience the more i can help

 

[crgildart]

yea yea but what about boots

I've had bigger boot quivers before.. Freeride/park boots (brown/gold), NASTAR/carving ski boots (red), tele boots (black).. retro boots (grey/blue), random spare loaner boots (grey) that I could use in a pinch.. The red race boots are the fastest though..

 

[James]

Here is where i have a problem what is groomer shaped ? I am yet to understand for example what makes a ski piste as opposed to it now being AM ? and what and when put it into FREERIDE ? they are all skis designed to do a job.

This is probably a direct result of being in Europe, and or not being on a ski website for the last 10-15 yrs.

“All mountain” There’s no real definition, and it’s sort of self defined.
In Europe it can be a Stockli AX. Because you ski mostly on pistes, or do the cutup stuff off piste but near. Even occasional powder is ok, but all off piste is very skill dependent on that ski.
But let’s say you’re going with a guide off some peak where there’ll be soft snow and flattish run outs. (Skilled skier) That ski isn’t the best. You’ll go wider and the shape and profile (side view - rocker and camber) will be different. Perhaps very different. Yes, a skilled skier could probably make that AX work. However, runouts you will sink too much and have no speed.

Free ride is an “all mountain” ski oriented to off piste and soft snow. Usually at some speed, but not necessarily. Now if you’re going to do air and tricks, this influences the shape and profile. Don’t want too soft a tail for landing. You might not go 120mm but only 110mm for spinning. Etc, etc, etc. Many choices with shape, profile, camber, stiffness. In general, there’s much less sidecut.

Then there’s certain terrain. Say steep with consequences, like say parts of Chamonix, you are not making high speed, big turns in general. There may be a couple, but short, low speed turns or jump turns are necessary to stay alive. So you will probably be in the 100-110 area, maybe even 95mm if it’s no fresh snow or spring. Might have some camber or none. Reverse camber would be personal probably. Probably not tons of splay if snow is not deep so the tips bite sooner.

Plus, you’re probably on an AT setup because you had to skin. So lightness is important.

There’s many, many, variables.

If you want to see the difference a “free ride” ski can make. Look up on youtube Didier Defago skis Bec des Rosses FWT. Then look up Julia Mancuso, FWT Bec des Rosses.

Defago is on a wcup gs ski. Julia is on a “free ride” ski. Both wcup skiers who don’t usually do FWT. Vastly different things they can do because of the skis.

 

[tch]

I've had bigger boot quivers before.. Freeride/park boots (brown/gold), NASTAR/carving ski boots (red), tele boots (black).. retro boots (grey/blue), random spare loaner boots (grey) that I could use in a pinch.. The red race boots are the fastest though..

Red is ALWAYS the fastest. Everyone knows that!

 

[cantunamunch]

Red is ALWAYS the fastest. Everyone knows that!

Not sure Max is willing to accept it tho.

 

[silverback]

I am 163cm tall 140 lbs and hired the 175 length being the shortest available, Stockli recommendation is 165...

So for those who know the AR and the MX83 how might i find the comparison in the correct lengths, which i think are 165 for AR and 168 for MX83

Deciding on the "correct" length can be difficult. I have the original MX83's which came in rather unconventional 10cm increments. I bought 173's and occasionally, at really high speeds or rough snow, found myself wondering if I would prefer 183's. I found a pair of 183 to test the question. Now I've found I like them both and that they are different enough I keep both. Either length is "correct", and both are.

 

[surfski]

Deciding on the "correct" length can be difficult. I have the original MX83's which came in rather unconventional 10cm increments. I bought 173's and occasionally, at really high speeds or rough snow, found myself wondering if I would prefer 183's. I found a pair of 183 to test the question. Now I've found I like them both and that they are different enough I keep both. Either length is "correct", and both are.

yes I remember your previous post. What struck me was the tracks you left in the snow showed what the ski is capable of with the right driver

 

[silverback]

The 172 Blossom 85s that just posted on the for sale forum might be an interesting substitute too.

 

[surfski]

The 172 Blossom 85s that just posted on the for sale forum might be an interesting substitute too.

thanks only just seen this and i would be interested except not worth the shipping etc also the pivots might work but would likely need a remount