Uh oh. Fast Tracks at Powdr resorts is coming

[johnnyvw]

All about the Benjamins....

 

[Jilly]

I like the free to condo mountain owners piece! Sweet perk.

Got to remember lots of owners don't use their units. They are "investment properties". And it has to be an Intrawest condo. So the condo I rent, if I owned it, wouldn't be allowed as it was not an Intrawest condo. I'm just on the wrong side of the street!!

I was actually surprised that Alterra left the perk in when they took over.

 

[Scruffy]

I don't like it either. With a lesson to cut lines, at least you're employing an instructor. Creating a First Class lift line is so against what I think as a "melting pot" experience on the mountain.

 

[mdf]

I think Mammoth has had a fast pass for quite a while, the Black pass allows you to scoot in right at the front. I think its something like a $10k add-on. Correct me if I'm wrong

Snowbird has something like that too. Includes back door to the Tram.
I don't like it either, but if I could afford it maybe I'd feel differently.

 

[David Chaus]

It looks like it’s a per-day add-on, as opposed to a season pass add-on. Which mean that any one of us might take advantage of it, once in a while, on a busy weekend day that happened to have a dump of powder overnight.

And how is it different from people paying for early access/First Tracks/etc?

I doubt it will be particularly useful mid-week, but if I happen to be at a busy resort on a busy day, yes I just might indulge.

 

[Scruffy]

As it is now ( or it was ) I don't know if the person I'm sharing a lift with ( assuming my group doesn't take up the entire lift or Gondi ) arrived in a Bentley, or a 15 yo beater. I share lifts with CEOs, investment bankers, doctors, plumbers and carpenters. Everyone is happy to be enjoying the conversation and comrade of skiing. I see skiing as equalizer activity--nobody cares how much you make or what you do, it's the joy of the day on the mountain sliding around on two planks, or a board, that's what we share. I see this as a move in the wrong direction. I could afford a fast lane, but I won't partake.

 

[Wasatchman]

It looks like it’s a per-day add-on, as opposed to a season pass add-on. Which mean that any one of us might take advantage of it, once in a while, on a busy weekend day that happened to have a dump of powder overnight.

And how is it different from people paying for early access/First Tracks/etc?

I doubt it will be particularly useful mid-week, but if I happen to be at a busy resort on a busy day, yes I just might indulge.

I think there are some big differences to first tracks programs. 1) first tracks is open to very few people, 2) it's usually only for an hour before the resort officially opens and then everyone treated the same when officially opened, 3) first tracks is typically limited to one lift or small area.

There are always some elite perks, but I see risk that fast pass is really going to create a different and much broader skier class system that i find distasteful.

 

[Andy Mink]

As to adding another layer of "exclusivity", keep in mind there are many, many people who look at skiing in general to be an exclusive, rich person sport. While I don't necessarily agree with the fast pass plan, I will refrain from throwing rocks in my already exclusive house. If the money comes in and makes the overall experience better through infrastructure improvement, then bully.

 

[David Chaus]

I think there are some big differences to first tracks programs. 1) first tracks is open to very few people, 2) it's usually only for an hour before the resort officially opens and then everyone treated the same when officially opened, 3) first tracks is typically limited to one lift or small area.

There are always some elite perks, but I see risk that fast pass is really going to create a different and much broader skier class system that i find distasteful.

What we don’t know yet is if they have a daily cap on the number of these sold. It may also be utilized at specific bottleneck lifts, which are often busy only for the first hour or so and then people get spread out around a given resort.

Regardless, I don’t tend to go to busy resorts at busy times, but if I was on a vacation, and had limited opportunities to ski that particular resort and really wanted to experience the skiing at that resort more than the lines at that resort, I might pony up. I’m not saying I’d be proud of myself, just observing that I could see myself doing this, if I’m being honest.

 

[tch]

As others have said, this is yet another step in the creation of classes in America. Some free-marketers will think it's OK, but the overall outcome will be to further separate the "haves" from the "have-nots". Particularly ironic b/c downhill skiing is already a bastion of the upper class, so this is really just separating the "really haves" from the "only sorta haves".

When access to almost everything is doled out according to ability to pay, we will have reached that dystopian future so many have predicted. This may seem like a really trivial step, but wholesale social change is driven one small step at a time. Each one sets a precedent for another step towards further separation of society's benefits by wealth. Yet one more fatal error of allowing absolute capitalism to rule everything.

 

[dbostedo]

To me there is a big difference. I don't think it's fair for people to be stuck in line if they are paying for an expensive lesson. Yes, some wealthy people take a lesson just for the line cutting, but it's rare and nothing they can really enforce to stop that.

Fast pass on the other hand is purely about creating a class of skiers for line cutting privileges. It does not sit well with me as far as yet another class differentiation on the mountain, and as @jmeb put it very well, is an amusement park invention that i think is in poor taste and doesn't seem to fit the culture of ski resorts I've been to.

I notice you and I in general seem to see things very differently on a variety of things and that's okay. Variety is the spice of life.

Maybe I should clarify. I completely don't want fast pass options at the mountain. I'm against them if it's up to me. But IF they exist, I don't see them as much different than people taking a "lesson" to cut the line. Note, I'm only speaking of those types of line-cutting lessons. (Though as Scruffy pointed out, at least you're employing an instructor, which is a good thing... so maybe fast pass is worse.)

What if they sell so many "Fast Pass" tickets that the "Fast Pass" line is equal or longer than the "Plebian" line? Then the "Fast Pass" line becomes the "Slow" line?

And example: I've seen this happen at the Manchester, NH airport with TSA Precheck. I arrived once to find like 30 people in the TSA Precheck line and 2 in the regular line. (It's still a bit different though, because you don't have to take your shoes off or unpack your bag for TSA Precheck. Still, kind of like it.)

And how is it different from people paying for early access/First Tracks/etc?

I think the biggest difference there is anyone that pays has equal access... there isn't an extra you can pay to be allowed to cut in front of other first tracks ticket holders.

 

[mikel]

And I think Copper has had it for several years now, but maybe only on pass products (rather than daily purchases)? If so, that would have served to limit how many people would buy it.

Yep, Copper has had it as an annual pass product for several years now. It was called Secret Pass and then evolved into the Premier Pass with 2 options depending on what you wanted included with the pass. Parking, swimming, etc. The switch happened after the annual passes went on sale this season so there could be some that still have the annual pass but it is now a daily product. Everything is ala carte this season.

There were also lodging options that included this pass.

 

[coskigirl]

Yep, Copper has had it as an annual pass product for several years now. It was called Secret Pass and then evolved into the Premier Pass with 2 options depending on what you wanted included with the pass. Parking, swimming, etc. The switch happened after the annual passes went on sale this season so there could be some that still have the annual pass but it is now a daily product. Everything is ala carte this season.

There were also lodging options that included this pass.

Before that it was the Beeline but I don’t ever recall a significant number of guests using it. I suspect at higher end resorts like Aspen, Beaver Creek, and Deer Valley it could be a bigger issue. https://www.summitdaily.com/news/beeline-a-go-at-copper/

 

[SBrown]

This is one of those things that gets a big shrug from me. Maybe because I have seen the Beeline etc at Copper and it didn't really do anything (as @coskigirl pointed out)? Most people who had it weren't skiing where I wanted to; I guess it depends on the particular area and particular setup. But I can think of about a million instances in our daily lives where paying a little more gets you a little extra, so I am just not too worked up about it. In a way, this is an improvement, because it makes line cutting far more accessible -- aka $49 is much much cheaper than paying for a private lesson, so more of us can do it. I'm sure users will get hit with a snowball or two on pow days, though, lol.

 

[Philpug]

$49 is much much cheaper than paying for a private lesson, so more of us can do it.

Starting at $49....I am sure it won't be $49 on a powder day. I wonder what it will be on a Holiday week powder day? Do I hear $199?

 

[crgildart]

"Starting at $49" is the key here and it going up on busier days? I think very few will step up enough for it to make a significant difference in everyone else's experience.

I think even two people skating past a line of 100 people who showed up and booted up to get to the corral an hour early to get the goods on a powder day will piss a lot of people off. Imagine if they traverse the bowl first run too..

 

[SBrown]

Starting at $49....I am sure it won't be $49 on a powder day. I wonder what it will be on a Holiday week powder day? Do I hear $199?

Still cheaper ... but whatever, I just feel like "whatever." I dunno, I don't worry about the people who paid more to park closer than the shuttle lot either. Or who pay for business class and receive a much better airplane experience, etc etc.

The opposite bothers me more, ie, making it impossible to brown bag or the like.

 

[dbostedo]

Still cheaper ... but whatever, I just feel like "whatever." I dunno, I don't worry about the people who paid more to park closer than the shuttle lot either. Or who pay for business class and receive a much better airplane experience, etc etc.

The opposite bothers me more, ie, making it impossible to brown bag or the like.

The main reason I differentiate something like fast pass from seats on an airplane, is that more people paying for fast pass makes the other people's experience worse. Whether or not people pay for first class on the airplane doesn't affect my experience in coach. But paying to cut the lift line does affect my experience on the mountain. I'm with you on "it's probably not a big deal"... but conceptually, I don't like it.

 

[SBrown]

The main reason I differentiate something like fast pass from seats on an airplane, is that more people paying for fast pass makes the other people's experience worse. Whether or not people pay for first class on the airplane doesn't affect my experience in coach. But paying to cut the lift line does affect my experience on the mountain. I'm with you on "it's probably not a big deal"... but conceptually, I don't like it.

I can see that ... but I guess my experience with it at Copper is why I shrug, it didn't really affect too much. How do you feel about TSA Pre and CLear and Global Entry and other ways to move ahead of others at the airport? Maybe that's a better comparison.

 

[dbostedo]

How do you feel about TSA Pre and CLear and Global Entry and other ways to move ahead of others at the airport? Maybe that's a better comparison.

That is a good question... and I love my TSA Precheck. I suppose that still has less impact on those that don't have it, compared to lift lines. I.e. I'm not taking a "seat" at the airport from someone coming through the regular security line or making them wait longer directly. Amusement parks and chairlifts are directly making people wait for a seat longer. But it's something to think about.

(That said, I do feel guilty at some smaller airports, where the TSA Precheck line isn't actually separate, and just lets you cut the regular line. But that's not very many places. Then there's the actual cost of pre-check which is fixed for everyone and not very expensive, and whether or not that matters... things get complicated.)