Nice thing about a sunny race (at last!) and high-def cameras is that sometimes you can catch a glimpse of the ski bases in the finish area. Here is Head (Sara Hector) and Völkl (Alice Robinson). Structure looks overall narrower across the base on the Head skis.
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WC base structures
- Thread starter BClipped
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Yup, intentionally cut that way to help keep water produced by friction under the ski. While minimizing friction ad the edge.
So that is a linear pattern near the edges and a diagonal pattern in the center of the ski?
I assume the diagonal pattern on the other ski is a mirror image of the pattern on the ski displayed?
I assume the diagonal pattern on the other ski is a mirror image of the pattern on the ski displayed?
Others will be more qualified to answer than I am, but I don’t think the diagonal is set according to left/right - its the same pattern and direction on both skis.
The outside part isn’t a linear pattern, just a ‘no pattern’... ie no grinding there.
The diagonal is a Moire pattern - the grind is a cross pattern but the divergence between the lines forming the cross is *smaller* than the diagonal appearance shows.
There is another thread about this and it basically says that this narrow pattern us as a direct result of the limitations of the current machines so as not to grind this pattern into the edge. Or more simply put can’t be wider than the narrowest part of the ski.
Bad tune?
Took the Enforcers for their first edge tune/sharpen last week. The shop here in Phoenix has tuned all my other skis many times over the years and I've never had issues, in fact I always thought they did great work. Well today when I got the Enforcers on snow they were pretty much un-skiable...
www.pugski.com
Thanks that’s the one, not enough sleep this weekend to think straight.Bad tune?
Took the Enforcers for their first edge tune/sharpen last week. The shop here in Phoenix has tuned all my other skis many times over the years and I've never had issues, in fact I always thought they did great work. Well today when I got the Enforcers on snow they were pretty much un-skiable...
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A Travis Ganong ski:
Photo Cody Downard
www.powder.com
Photo Cody Downard
Prepping Skis for the Olympics Is Both Art and Science
Behind every great ski racer is a great ski technician.
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I must have missed that part. I thought that @smoothrides said the lack of structure next to the edge is to enhance the ability to slip the ski sideways.
I can put a structure in a ski from edge to edge then apply the base bevel, resulting in no structure in the edge and an edge to edge structure. Most speed skis have edge to edge structure and I'd wager a beer that not one of those edges (on the WC at least) has structure in them.
It can be desirable to have structure from edge to edge. The key is to bevel the base edge after the structure is ground into the ski. It is possible to run a structure pass over a ski, achieve edge to edge structure and not structure the base edge. It depends on the pressure of the stone and the bevel of the base. There is no right or wrong process, just good and bad results.
When you put structure in the ski, you are likely going to affect the edges if you are really flattening/blanking the ski. Especially if you are also trying to reduce the base bevel in order to reset it. When I blank skis I am using a very fine linear structure. It removes edge but doesn't gouge the edge like a regular structure would. I'll try to take pictures the next time I blank a ski to show the steps of developing a good structure and resetting bevels.
The quality of the tune always has been, currently is and probably always will be in the hands of the tuner.
It is my understanding, but I could be wrong, that margin structures are a recent development and have only became possible with the new robotic machines that allow the ski to be moved across the spinning stone in a precisely straight line. A hand operated stone grinder wouldn't permit the repeatable straight movement required to reliably create the margins.
I don’t run any of these machines (unfortunately), so I’ll bow down to those with the correct knowledge and experience. I was just sharing what was posted in another thread (unless I misread it).
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I think computer controlled stone dressing plus the careful alignment by the robotic carriage allows the blanking. Definitely fairly recent. Though it was possible before it became popular. I guess it was tested, or Montana and Wintersteiger convinced buyers it's better in some tech event.
These are a couple skis I worked on recently.
This is a customer's:
Before:
After grind and bevels, before wax.:
He didn't request P-Tex hence the remaining gouges. I blanked the ski, ground the structure, then applied the bevels. The base edges likely had some structure in them, but the edger took them out. There is a skiff of scuff (couldn't resist) along the edges from the disc edger, but it more or less came out with waxing and brushing.
Edit: This is the typical structure we use nearly all season long in CO. It is great for race as well as recreational use, man-made and natural snow.
This is a customer's:
Before:
After grind and bevels, before wax.:
He didn't request P-Tex hence the remaining gouges. I blanked the ski, ground the structure, then applied the bevels. The base edges likely had some structure in them, but the edger took them out. There is a skiff of scuff (couldn't resist) along the edges from the disc edger, but it more or less came out with waxing and brushing.
Edit: This is the typical structure we use nearly all season long in CO. It is great for race as well as recreational use, man-made and natural snow.
Last edited:
This is the structure on my GS skis. They had a really wonky tune (used skis) so I blanked them, applied the thumbprint structure and side bevel, then the base bevel, all with the Scout.
It also had a little scuffing on the base next to the edge. It was negligible and undetectable after waxing and brushing. They were blanked to the point of having some structure in the edge/having the edge reduced by the stone. By doing the edging last, you remove any stone marks in the edges. It is really hard to get good photos of bases and edges with my phone camera. I also meant to show you what the fine linear grind I use to blank the ski looks like. Next time, I hope.
It also had a little scuffing on the base next to the edge. It was negligible and undetectable after waxing and brushing. They were blanked to the point of having some structure in the edge/having the edge reduced by the stone. By doing the edging last, you remove any stone marks in the edges. It is really hard to get good photos of bases and edges with my phone camera. I also meant to show you what the fine linear grind I use to blank the ski looks like. Next time, I hope.
Someone in the crowd yelled out "nice bottoms!"
Could a ski that is base edge high, when stone ground create sparks on the stone and damage the stone?
Yes and no. When I'm blanking a ski, I am getting some sparks, but because the edges aren't higher than the bases, the wear on the stone is minimal. When I change from the blanking structure to the finish structure there is never an area that not properly dressed due to excessive wear from the edges.
If a ski were truly edge high, such that you catch your fingernail on it when you drag it across the base, I'd either file or belt them to remove the excess metal. Then I'd stone them.
Pretty much the only way you are going to get a base flat and the base edge to a point where you can put a proper bevel on it is to use the stone grinder. Using a belt will never result in a base bevel less than 1* or so as the belt and drive roller are soft, relative to stone so never create a flat surface from edge to edge. They are for coarse work.
If a ski were truly edge high, such that you catch your fingernail on it when you drag it across the base, I'd either file or belt them to remove the excess metal. Then I'd stone them.
Pretty much the only way you are going to get a base flat and the base edge to a point where you can put a proper bevel on it is to use the stone grinder. Using a belt will never result in a base bevel less than 1* or so as the belt and drive roller are soft, relative to stone so never create a flat surface from edge to edge. They are for coarse work.
