What to do with new skis?

[Magi]

Because this is a great place to ask the 'silly noob' questions (and a quick search didn't find what I was looking for):

For the first time I have some brand new skis. Outside of putting bindings on them and a coat of fresh wax, is there anything else that usually is needed at this stage? I assume that there is a factory edge on them and for a lot of people that may or may not be what they need?

0) Decide [if] you care what the base/side bevel of your skis is, and that you'll be maintaining your edges regularly to achieve that desire.

1) Decide what edge / base bevel you want your skis to be at.

2) Measure what is currently present.

3) Fix anything discovered in step 2 that doesn't match what you wanted in step 1.

a) take skis to a quality tune shop (These are harder to find than you might think).​

b) or tune them yourself using your own kit.​

 

[PTskier]

A side & base edge bevel gauge is $70. Just side bevel is $40. http://www.tognar.com/fk-side-base-bevel-gauge/

I've tried to measure the edge bevels with a protractor head on a machinist's combination square...it's an eye test.

My last new pair of Heads were seriously concave. They had a mind of their own whether they'd scoot right or left. A base grind fixed that.

Ignore factory edge bevels. Get them set to the angles you like for your skiing technique on your usual snow conditions.

Most shops here mindlessly grind the edges to 1/1. I have to convince them that I want something different. I do not trust the calibration of their edge grinders. The techs never heard of recalibrating anything.

 

[Marker]

With apprehension, I had my wife's skis stone ground and the edges reset to 3/1 last season at the local shop. I was pleasantly surprised when I got them home and checked them with a diamond stone and put the final polish on them. I was not comfortable doing this level of work myself. She could tell instantly the improvement over 2/1!

My Rossi GS cheaters supposedly came new with a 3/1 factory tune. These needed a little work to clean up the consistency, but in general were okay.

 

[DanoT]

With apprehension, I had my wife's skis stone ground and the edges reset to 3/1 last season at the local shop. I was pleasantly surprised when I got them home and checked them with a diamond stone and put the final polish on them. I was not comfortable doing this level of work myself. She could tell instantly the improvement over 2/1!

My Rossi GS cheaters supposedly came new with a 3/1 factory tune. These needed a little work to clean up the consistency, but in general were okay.

^^Usually the base edge bevel is expressed first, then the side edge bevel, so Marker should have posted 1/3 or 1/2 for the edge bevel.

I am in the camp that says ski a new ski first and then decide if you don't like the factory tune and need to make a change. I don't really like having a lot of stone grinding/base edge sharpening especially to a new ski as the more you remove material, the shorter the life span of the ski. An aggressive stone grind can also change the feel of a ski quite a bit compared to what the factory puts out.

With most shops it is best to give specific instructions in writing taped to the ski. If you don't, the standard sharpening you get at most shops in the west (not sure about the east) is 1//1. This is because the bulk of the skiing public are intermediates who are more concerned about not catching a sharp angled edge while skidding a turn, than having a steeper angled edge that bites in a carved turn.

I prefer a 1/2 but if I was an eastern skier, I would probably go 1/3 for dealing with firmer snow and true ice.

 

[Jim McDonald]

Pardon my ignorance, but "pull the sidewalls" means what? literally try to pull the sidewall material away from the body of the ski?
Is that really a concern?

 

[KingGrump]

Pardon my ignorance, but "pull the sidewalls" means what? literally try to pull the sidewall material away from the body of the ski?
Is that really a concern?

 

[Doug Briggs]

Pardon my ignorance, but "pull the sidewalls" means what? literally try to pull the sidewall material away from the body of the ski?
Is that really a concern?

The sidewalls will interfere with hand held tools (and some automated and powered systems as well) restricting the amount of bevel that can be applied to the side edge. 'Pulling' or 'planing' the sidewalls lets the tool have unrestricted access to the edge material.

Sidewall planing has been discussed in other threads. In a nutshell, there are many ways to remove the sidewall material: planes, files and edging machines. If you do your own edge work, you'll eventually need to remove sidewall to be able to maintain the edge bevels you desire without interference from the sidewall.

Using a sidewall plane can do a beautiful job but can also ruin your sidewall if you aren't skilled or careful. It is easy to have the cutting edge 'bounce' along the sidewall creating divots or gouges on your sidewall that are difficult, if not impossible to remove. It is good to practice with your plane on skis that don't matter to become familiar with it. As pointed out in the video, there are different materials used in sidewalls and even among particular types, a lot of variation. Not all materials are as easy to plane as others.

A bevel guide with a panzer file, using a higher bevel than the bevel you desire for your edge, is pretty easy and while not foolproof, less likely to cause issues than a plane can introduce.

I like using an old belt-style edger at the shop to remove excess sidewall material. It leaves a nice clean finish and is pretty foolproof.

 

[Jim McDonald]

Ah, that makes sense, thanks Doug. I'll leave that to the experts who are handy with tools; I managed a gentleman's C in changing lightbulbs 101.

 

[slow-line-fast]

Wow that’s a great set of videos

 

[slow-line-fast]

Sidewall planing has been discussed in other threads. In a nutshell, there are many ways to remove the sidewall material: planes, files and edging machines. If you do your own edge work, you'll eventually need to remove sidewall to be able to maintain the edge bevels you desire without interference from the sidewall.

Using a sidewall plane can do a beautiful job but can also ruin your sidewall if you aren't skilled or careful. It is easy to have the cutting edge 'bounce' along the sidewall creating divots or gouges on your sidewall that are difficult, if not impossible to remove. It is good to practice with your plane on skis that don't matter to become familiar with it. As pointed out in the video, there are different materials used in sidewalls and even among particular types, a lot of variation. Not all materials are as easy to plane as others.

A bevel guide with a panzer file, using a higher bevel than the bevel you desire for your edge, is pretty easy and while not foolproof, less likely to cause issues than a plane can introduce.

I like using an old belt-style edger at the shop to remove excess sidewall material. It leaves a nice clean finish and is pretty foolproof.

Because a sidewall planer is another tool to buy/store and because it can screw the sidewall up if not used well, I've always just removed sidewall material in the process of filing the side edge to the desired bevel. For some new skis this takes a while (others not), but eventually the file is cutting the side edge at the desired bevel. If I had lots of skis to prep, it would make sense to get a planer and the skill to use it, but I don't have that much to prep. I'm assuming the only disadvantage is extra time - though I could be wrong about that.

 

[KingGrump]

Because a sidewall planer is another tool to buy/store and because it can screw the sidewall up if not used well, I've always just removed sidewall material in the process of filing the side edge to the desired bevel. For some new skis this takes a while (others not), but eventually the file is cutting the side edge at the desired bevel. If I had lots of skis to prep, it would make sense to get a planer and the skill to use it, but I don't have that much to prep. I'm assuming the only disadvantage is extra time - though I could be wrong about that.

A quick work around is clamps a 100 mm panzer file on your existing edge guide with a small shim (tongue depressor or similat) on the outboard side. That would increase the effective cutting angle of the file.

 

[Doug Briggs]

removed sidewall material in the process of filing the side edge to the desired bevel

The problem I see with this method is that sidewall material is removed at a different rate than the metal; the tools we use to tune our edges work much more readily on metal than plastic which means there is a greater chance that while you remove the sidewall you are also removing edge material unnecessarily. That is why I would recommend using a higher angle bevel tool to remove the sidewall first, then set the base bevel with the correct bevel guide.

An advantage to pulling back the sidewall to a higher bevel than the edge is that subsequent edge sharpening doesn't have to remove plastic, just metal. Also you can't access the edge material with a stone if the sidewall has the same bevel as stones aren't effective at all in removing plastic.

It is my experience in working on customer's skis that they have tried to set bevels on, that bevel guides don't always insure the correct bevel is set. It takes care and practice to set bevels and trying to work two different materials at the same time complicates the beveling process.

Fully automated machines with ceramic discs are less effective when trying to remove sidewall. They can't mis-bevel the edge due to their construction, but many passes are required to just get through the sidewall and into the actual edge. So rather than use a $250K machine (and several passes) to remove sidewall prior to setting edge bevels, I use the inexpensive GrindRite belt edger to remove the sidewall. There are two things, besides a plane, remove sidewall quickly: belt sanding and panzer files. Fine toothed files that you would use to sharpen an edge don't typically have enough bite to remove the plastic effectively.

 

[slow-line-fast]

Makes sense - thanks both

 

[DanoT]

Why don't skis come with sidewall already shaved?

A lot of the skiing public ski on edges that are 1/1 degree. At 1 degree does the sidewall even come into play? This might be the answer to my first question.

 

[Doug Briggs]

@DanoT, the sidewall will always come into play. Depending on the ski/manufacturer, they (the sidewalls) come out of the wrapper at 0, some with a sloped sidewall. Some Fischers have sidewalls that sloped but still need planing as the slope doesn't necessarily start at the top of the edge.

One reason sidewalls aren't already beveled may be that not everyone uses the same bevel on their edges so won't want the same sidewall bevel.

 

[ScottB]

The side wall helps support the metal edge on a ski. You want to remove just a small amount at a time. You cut it back just enough so your file or stone is touching all metal. If you shaved a lot of sidewall off, the ski would be weaker around the edges.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

Hi just bought new skis as posted here:

Cage Match Comparison - 2021 Völkl Deacon 84 vs 2021 Völkl V.Werks 84

Blanket fits and flexes... :nono::nono::nono:

www.skitalk.com

And making a check list to wax the skis. Won't be bevelling edges for now:

1. Ski iron - https://aussieskier.com/products/toko-t14-digital-waxing-iron
2. A pair of vise - https://alpsport.com.au/collections/ski-tuning/products/t144-helium-vise
3. Red wax - https://alpsport.com.au/collections/ski-tuning/products/ps8-red-4-c-4-c-180g
4. Plexi scraper - https://alpsport.com.au/collections/swix/products/t823d-plexi-scraper-3mm
5. Brush - https://alpsport.com.au/collections/ski-tuning/products/bronze-brush

Please let me know if I missed anything. Thank you.

 

[Doug Briggs]

@Rich_Ease_3051, you might want to consider a file guide and a stone. At least a stone. Your new iron will look new longer if you deburr your edges before waxing. Burred edges can scratch the iron.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

@Rich_Ease_3051, you might want to consider a file guide and a stone. At least a stone. Your new iron will look new longer if you deburr your edges before waxing. Burred edges can scratch the iron.

Cool thanks. May you please be so kind enough to check these 2 websites' tuning pages for me and see if there's a stone I can order?

Ski Tuning Tools

Keep your skis in top shape with our range of ski tuning tools. Tuning Kits, Edgers, Scrapers, Brushes the lot. Fast & Free shipping Australia wide!

aussieskier.com

Ski Tuning

Alpsport is your one stop shop for all ski, snowboard & outdoor gear. In business for over 30 years. Come in and meet the team, or browse online today.

alpsport.com.au

 

[KingGrump]

The bronze brush you listed is not the type of brush you would want to use after scraping.
A square or oval horse hair brush may be more appropriate.

T157B Rectangular Horsehair

Alpsport stock a huge range of snow and outdoor gear including Swix T157B Rectangular Horsehair brush. Shop online or in store today.

alpsport.com.au

For general deburring after skiing, I like to use a 200 grit diamond stone. That would correspond to the coarse Swix stone listed.

TA200E Diamond 100mm Coarse

Alpsport stock a huge range of snow and outdoor gear including Swix TA200E Diamond 100mm Coarse. Shop online or in store today.

alpsport.com.au

The Swix edge guide with the stainless steel plate is a nice edge guide. I have couple of them. The one shown is for a 3° side edge angle. Your new ski may or may not come with a 3° side edge angle from the factory. The site does not show another option for that Swix unit.