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Where Instructors go Wrong

pushgears

Putting on skis
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Many instructors go wrong by failing to facilitate their students from experiencing the fundamentally essential feelings and sensations associated with proper skiing.

In other words, PSIA and many instructors tend to overly emphasize skiing theory by trying to verbalize what must be experienced in order to understand. It is similar to trying to describe the taste of water.

I understand the need to codify what we’re all out there in search of, but to really learn we need to follow Bruce Lee when he said, “Don’t think, feel!”

One long-time friend and instructor told me how they used to take their first run with boots unbuckled and hats pulled over the eyes.

With that said, there IS a need for technical discussion and instruction at the highest levels, but for MOST skiers, being able experience the “Freedom of the Mountain” at their level will keep them coming back for more.
 

Philpug

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Instructors go wrong when they teach only the way they know how to teach verses teaching the way the student learns. Granted the methods you mention are ways to teach but you are also assuming that is the way every student learns which will fail in many cases. There are students that are very analytical and if you teach with Bruce Lee's method, it will fall on deaf ears.

There are many ways to learn, therefore there needs to be many ways to teach.
 

HDSkiing

You’re Sliding On-Snow; Don’t Over-Think it!
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@pushgears This seems like an appropriate topic as we enter the time of year when we start hiring/rehiring and of course doing clinics. As a supervisor for an Adult Ski School, I'm always interested in "how can we do things better." Maybe that would be a better thread name as it works toward the positive rather than assumes a negative starting point.

Many instructors go wrong by failing to facilitate their students from experiencing the fundamentally essential feelings and sensations associated with proper skiing.

I'm not sure what to make of this. If you are saying that we should "ski more & talk less," then I would agree in principle.

In other words, PSIA and many instructors tend to overly emphasize skiing theory by trying to verbalize what must be experienced in order to understand. It is similar to trying to describe the taste of water.

I understand the need to codify what we’re all out there in search of, but to really learn we need to follow Bruce Lee when he said, “Don’t think, feel!”

PSIA has long embraced (as has other industry-standard bearers as mentioned above by @Jilly) Guest Centered Teaching or Learning. In fact its something that has been considerably expanded on in recent years. In any form of sports instruction, you have what is known as the VAK learning styles.

  • Visual--some learn best by watching
  • Auditory--some learn best by an explanation
  • Kinaesthetic--some learn best by feeling, or trying it.
The above is a very basic outline, and in fact has been expanded upon in the latest manuals. But rather than going into the weeds here, suffice it to say that while people learn differently in reality they are not strictly one or the other, but a mix of learning styles.

One on one, in a private lesson for example, an above preference might be easier to discern and adapt to. In a group setting that is not going to be the case, so an Instructor may have to use a broader approach say:
  • Tell me
  • Show me
  • Let me try

I get where the "tell me," part often ends up with a class standing around talking, or appearing to. Balancing those things always remains a challenge, but you simply can't apply "don't think, just feel." If it was that easy they wouldn't need us:). For many years I coached and Instructed Tae Kwon Do and previously made a living training Law Enforcement and military units in tactical weaponry. I don't think I've ever told someone to "not think just feel." Although it might have its place in some skiing applications, just not to everyone, all the time:).

One long-time friend and instructor told me how they used to take their first run with boots unbuckled and hats pulled over the eyes.

Not sure about the hat pulled down over the eyes part...But the unbuckled boots are a great drill, helps you get/stay centered. Eventually take this into the moguls and no poles. But even here, you may still need/want to explain what the drill is about, then demonstrate it, remember VAK.

With that said, there IS a need for technical discussion and instruction at the highest levels, but for MOST skiers, being able experience the “Freedom of the Mountain” at their level will keep them coming back for more.

All true, but the approach with each skier may be different.

When we talk about instructing skiing, or more precisely the people doing it, we often paint with a broad brush. I like to think, at least at the Adult Snowsports School where I work we get it right the overwhelmingly amount of times. I think that is also the case with most of the Instructors and schools out there, especially as we all work toward adhering to Industry Standards which not only keeps us as improving "Pro's," but in particular benefits the guests.

The entry bar to becoming an instructor is not a high one, nor should it be. But it is an apprenticeship of sorts with a learning curve that keeps getting steeper, and with good reason. Entry-level, non-cert staff make up a visible percentage of instructors on most mountains in any given season. As with the more senior staff, some will embrace teaching the way the student learns, others will struggle with it.
 
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Uke

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PSIA also had 'Student centered teaching' and although they pointed at the student a lot they seemed to keep talking about their finger.

uke
 

Ken_R

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Instructors go wrong when they teach only the way they know how to teach verses teaching the way the student learns. Granted the methods you mention are ways to teach but you are also assuming that is the way every student learns which will fail in many cases. There are students that are very analytical and if you teach with Bruce Lee's method, it will fall on deaf ears.

There are many ways to learn, therefore there needs to be many ways to teach.

Exactly it all depends on the student.

I do find that visual analysis is really lacking so the student never really sees him or herself ski. That makes it a bit harder / slower to learn or get over bad habits.
 

Tricia

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Many instructors go wrong by failing to facilitate their students from experiencing the fundamentally essential feelings and sensations associated with proper skiing.

In other words, PSIA and many instructors tend to overly emphasize skiing theory by trying to verbalize what must be experienced in order to understand. It is similar to trying to describe the taste of water.

I understand the need to codify what we’re all out there in search of, but to really learn we need to follow Bruce Lee when he said, “Don’t think, feel!”

One long-time friend and instructor told me how they used to take their first run with boots unbuckled and hats pulled over the eyes.

With that said, there IS a need for technical discussion and instruction at the highest levels, but for MOST skiers, being able experience the “Freedom of the Mountain” at their level will keep them coming back for more.
Have you heard of Weems' sports diamond.
The four corners of the diamond
Purpose
Power
Will
Touch
Your post speaks to the touch corner, but that's only one of the aspects to bring it all together.
 

4ster

Just because you can doesn’t mean you should!
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There are students that are very analytical and if you teach with Bruce Lee's method, it will fall on deaf ears.
Funny thing... In my experience at least at the intermediate & advanced zones, lesson takers were more often than not the analytical type. I think it is just the nature of those who take lessons or for that matter instructors that pursue certification. Not always, but I think it tends to be that way or it could be that I just seemed to attract the engineer types, maybe I was just pegged as having the ammo to deal with it.

Either way...

Personally, I am a very kinesthetic (feeler/doer) & am more comfortable/natural teaching those types of lessons. I really just like to follow & try to emulate, so a good demonstration is most important to me.

SBNJan-60.jpg


Quick explanation, clear demonstration, now try it. How did that feel? What was good?, what was bad? How can we trigger the good?, how can we eliminate the bad? etc.
It would often throw me when I would ask a student to stay right on my tail & they had difficulty with that approach. No problem, a quick shift to a different tactic & we would be on our way but I would always feel that I had wasted some of my clients valuable time if I had to search to make that perfect connection.

Of course, a good teacher should be able to determine what type of learner(s) they are dealing with & adapt their teaching accordingly. A good Snowsports School Supervisor should be even better equipped to recognize these traits quickly during a brief pre-assignment interview & match the instructor with the student accordingly. That also means that the supervisor needs to know the strengths of their staff.
In my time teaching, I did alot of adapting :ogbiggrin:
 
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4ster

Just because you can doesn’t mean you should!
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I do find that visual analysis is really lacking so the student never really sees him or herself ski. That makes it a bit harder / slower to learn or get over bad habits.
I don't teach anymore but during my last few seasons with an iPhone, video & then review on the lift was a part of almost all coaching sessions I conducted. Before that I was occasionally involved in specialty video clinics but a good instructor should be able to show a student through their own demonstration where their weaknesses are and how to correct them.
If I were a student now, I think I would hand my phone to my instructor & ask them to shoot some video, I do it now with friends...
E1D0B6A0-0A35-4E70-ABBF-4394153B6FAC.gif
 

Chris V.

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Many instructors go wrong by failing to facilitate their students from experiencing the fundamentally essential feelings and sensations associated with proper skiing.
After reading all the responses, I come back to this, and agree. There are many learning pathways, but at some point a ski student must experience the "essential feelings and sensations" that come with properly doing the movement being taught. If a student experiences that even once, the student will be motivated to want to repeat it and to figure out what created it. The instructor's job is to reason, demonstrate, manipulate, or cajole the student into this by whatever means necessary. This is one reason why we design exercises that isolate one movement, and make it as easy as possible for the student to do that one movement, without worrying about all of the other stuff that goes on in linked turns in the ever-changing environment of a ski run.
 
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Chris V.

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Indeed, a picture (or a moving picture) is worth a thousand words. Having no snow, I've just been watching a whole bunch of video that the PSIA-East put up of Level III preparation sessions. I've seen exactly one clip where the participants were doing anything as good as this. Shows the scale of the challenge. I'm not meaning to claim to be superior or anything. As Glen Plake says, "Skiing is supposed to be hard."
 

Wendy

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I am very much a ”feeler.” A good instructor for me is one who can get me to experience the sensations of correct vs. incorrect movements. I do not like a ton of technical talk. I get frustrated and sometimes confused with overly long explanations. (When I read technical skiing threads on here, my head tends to spin, LOL). For me, that makes skiing harder. I do this for fun....I don’t need language that makes it more difficult.
 

4ster

Just because you can doesn’t mean you should!
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I am very much a ”feeler.” A good instructor for me is one who can get me to experience the sensations of correct vs. incorrect movements. I do not like a ton of technical talk. I get frustrated and sometimes confused with overly long explanations. (When I read technical skiing threads on here, my head tends to spin, LOL). For me, that makes skiing harder. I do this for fun....I don’t need language that makes it more difficult.
I think that if potential lesson participants read the instruction threads & thought that's what lessons were like, most wouldn't take them. I am usually done with those threads after the first page or two.
Same with the equipment threads, most would go away thinking their boots didn't fit or a particular ski will all of a sudden make them a superstar. It is certainly part of the equation but only part.
 

Ken_R

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Actually keeping it simple really helps. A few pugskiers here have given me some fantastic tips while on the snow. Simple, to the point, effective.
 

Guy in Shorts

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Have experienced several good on-line lessons here in the Ski School section. Tend to go along with those can put into words what I am feeling when skiing.
 

Steve

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Here's the way I look at it. There are not multiple learning styles. For something like skiing we all learn kinesthetically.

There are, however, different knowledge acquisition styles. VAK is about this, not about learning. Knowledge is just the first step towards understanding, towards learning.

So to get a student to feel something takes a different approach depending on the student. Some you show them, they see it, try and then feel it. Some you need to explain it to, then they try it and feel it. Some you need to use guided discovery, some drills, etc.

The goal is to get them to feel something, and as @Chris V. said, once they feel it they can try to repeat that feeling.
 

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