• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

23/24 Gear Previews, including TYOTB (the year of the BOA)

givethepigeye

Really, just Rob will do
Skier
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
1,709
Location
Charleston, SC
It's actually easier to do when you have it on (i.e. something to push against).

The "why" you won't get until you put the boot on. It's the same with every retailer and skier I've ever shown it to over the last 2 years. No one doesn't feel the difference. But since that takes an actual experience to produce, it will be an internet showdown until then.
Really? I don’t feel anything now on the lower clog - hardly buckled, and since they are Lange’s, just tape across the front toe dam. Not discrediting the work you and other engineer put in here, but for me - this is a nothing burger. Maybe others crank the bottom 2 and this might help a bad fit or some sort of touring application that I don’t care about.
 

fatbob

Not responding
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,342
The "why" you won't get until you put the boot on. It's the same with every retailer and skier I've ever shown it to over the last 2 years. No one doesn't feel the difference. But since that takes an actual experience to produce, it will be an internet showdown until then.

Appreciate you valiantly fighting your corner on this and maybe it's something we have to accept we won't see the benefits of until we are in a position to buy our next shells. But I'd be disappointed if by the time that comes we don't have real world data on durability AND the option to buy similar boots in BOA or traditional configuration. And maybe by then there will be measurable differences in clog construction etc or even full boot BOAs.

I guess a lot of the pushback is on tech being forced on the market which has not been asked for. I just wouldn't want to be an early adopter.
 

onenerdykid

Product Manager, Atomic Ski Boots
Masterfit Bootfitter
Manufacturer
Joined
Feb 18, 2020
Posts
1,286
Location
Altenmarkt, Austria
Really? I don’t feel anything now on the lower clog - hardly buckled, and since they are Lange’s, just tape across the front toe dam. Not discrediting the work you and other engineer put in here, but for me - this is a nothing burger. Maybe others crank the bottom 2 and this might help a bad fit or some sort of touring application that I don’t care about.
I come from the "shell buckles should be loose" camp too. Buckles wrap until a certain point and then they collapse the shell downward - this is why we should have fits that don't require lots of buckle pressure to securely hold the foot. This system does not behave the same way and it does produce a better fit than buckles.

I guess a lot of the pushback is on tech being forced on the market which has not been asked for.
This is where I would disagree, but because I see it from a different angle. Buckles, cables, BOAs, straps, etc. are all solutions - none of them are needs. And the distinction between solutions & needs is incredibly important. No one needs a boot with buckles or a boot with BOA - the need is to have a great fitting boot. For example, no one needs a watch - they need to be able to tell time. The watch is merely a solution for the need of telling time. If a better solution than a watch came around, then it would be created or used (i.e. a smartphone for some people fulfills the need of being able to tell time). Or the famous line from Henry Ford "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." One of the things his quote illustrates is the fact that a car is not a need, it's a solution. The need is to get from one destination to another in a quick and efficient manner.

Identifying needs and then creating specific solutions for those needs is how brands (in any industry) will create great products. When brands focus merely on solutions, then they won't create great products (which is what you and everyone else are rightly concerned by). I honestly don't care about BOA, I have zero interest in pushing BOA into the market. Instead, I care about making a better fitting boot and I would argue this is exactly what the market is asking for. Fit is one of the absolute, main needs associated with ski boots and this new BOA system takes fit to the next level. And of course there are many other needs associated with ski boots: skiing performance, durability, reparability, ease of use, staying dry, etc. Proper solutions must take into consideration these needs as well and real innovation will come from creating solutions for each of those needs.
 

fatbob

Not responding
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,342
I can agree that a "need" for a great fitting boot is there. I'm not seeing the pix of the Salomon and Fischer boots really providing a step change in that because the BOA seems to be a substitute for existing clog closure rather than a radical way of wrapping clog plastic round the foot so that grinds and punches are avoided. So I can well believe marginal improvement in fit but not at the level of those things which are really necessary for a great fit (or at least not yet) I would of course be more than happy with a boot that could be bought off the shelf and totally customized to my foot by tweaking a couple of cables without giving up performance but I don't think you are making that claim yet?
 
Thread Starter
TS
Philpug

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
42,961
Location
Reno, eNVy

Erik Timmerman

So much better than a pro
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,357
@onenerdykid totally unrelated, but can you tell me what the status is of Atomic’s CARV like system? I was all hyped to try it a couple years ago and then it disappeared. Is it totally dead or will it be resurrected?
 

Tom K.

Skier Ordinaire
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Dec 20, 2015
Posts
8,480
Anything changing on the Enforcer 100?

New 100s needed next season.

Sorry, no BOA content... :rolleyes:
 

whumber

Putting on skis
Skier
Joined
Apr 27, 2017
Posts
72
Location
Killington, VT
I had footjoy ones with the boa on the heel. Constantly getting popped open by walking in thr rough.
Nobody told me I had to play entirely on the cut stuff to use those shoes.
Useless. ( the shoes too....)
I found the footjoy boa implementation to be particularly bad. I have a few of the Adidas boa shoes and they're fantastic plus all of the cycling shoes I've bought in the last 15 years have been Boa. The only failure I've had was on a pair of specialized s-works that use a very old boa version where the ratcheting mechanism wore out after 7 years of heavy use. The mechanisms showing up in these ski boots appears to be much beefier than anything seen in golf or cycling shoes though so I wouldn't be too worried about the cable breaking.
 
Thread Starter
TS
Philpug

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
42,961
Location
Reno, eNVy
Much of the focus here has been on the BOA of of the Fischer boots but IMHO the addition of a real Zipfit liner as an option on the top end RC4 .
IMG_3265.jpeg
IMG_3264.jpeg
IMG_3262.jpeg

69074062374__C584705A-94E6-48E4-925E-0FD3BDDE572E.jpeg


New Ranger 84, an all new narrow (wider) Ranger
IMG_3258.jpeg

Note the NGT RC ONE 86 GT in the background.
IMG_3257.jpeg
 
Last edited:

cantunamunch

Meh
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
22,203
Location
Lukey's boat
Much of the focus here has been on the BOA of of the Fischer boots but IMHO the addition of a real Zipfit liner as an option on the top end RC4 .

Do the FischerZip liners get the detachable tongue hack from the old RC4 liner?

I expect they don't get the hook and loop trim-to-fit tongue backing?
 
Thread Starter
TS
Philpug

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
42,961
Location
Reno, eNVy
Do the FischerZip liners get the detachable tongue hack from the old RC4 liner?

I expect they don't get the hook and loop trim-to-fit tongue backing?
Which was a great feature, I don't believe it does.
 
Thread Starter
TS
Philpug

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
42,961
Location
Reno, eNVy
@Philpug Can you tell us more about the Ranger 84? Specs? Price point? Has anyone skied it?
I am sure someone has, I have not skied it yet, I will next week. Flex, as you can see is very balanced and round.

Dims are 119-85-109 (scaled) 15m@174cm with a price of $649.99
 

BLiP

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Feb 12, 2020
Posts
983
Location
New York
Really? I don’t feel anything now on the lower clog - hardly buckled, and since they are Lange’s, just tape across the front toe dam. Not discrediting the work you and other engineer put in here, but for me - this is a nothing burger. Maybe others crank the bottom 2 and this might help a bad fit or some sort of touring application that I don’t care about.
And do you think you are the rule or the exception? I’d estimate that, percentage wise, few skiers have their boots fit well enough that the lower buckles require no tension. I don’t fault the manufacturers for building for the masses rather than the exceptions. Those that downsize (err rightsize) and punch/grind to a perfect fit will be fine regardless of whether the clog has buckles or boa.
 

Sponsor

Staff online

Top