$899.00 for a K2 ski??

[GregK]

[QUOTE

Sure, but to clarify, it's not a continual degradation... it's either getting a signal or not, for the most part. It not like there's a low, medium, and high options with a sliding scale of picture quality, like there could be with speaker cables.

There are extreme cases where you get no signal but if the monitor is revealing enough on a high res signal you might get a compromised signal. There are lots of 50’ cables out there but not everyone is certified to deliver 4K or 8K resolution in that length. Mono Cables and others decent manufacturers out there will only even offer longer lengths in certain models if they can guarantee it will pass a full res signal that far without issues.
Again, shorter lengths you won’t see these differences typically.

 

[Ron]

for 99% of people out there, a 6-8' HDMI 2.1 cable will work just fine for anything they are using now or even a few years from now.

 

[GregK]

So long as we are drifting off-topic......
I recently got access to Amazon Prime music, due to me getting Amazon Prime to watch some tv shows. I have a very cheap pair of speakers connected to my personal computer, nothing special as far as I know about the sound card. While not great when played through the computer with the cheap Insignia speakers, I could listen to it. When I click on the volume button on my screen it says "Realtek high definition audio". However, when I got the idea to hook the audio output up to my old Marantz receiver and slightly better speakers instead, it is not something I want to hear, at all. What gives?

The better speakers and better amp will be more revealing of source quality(Compressed Audio on non High Res streaming service) and the mediocre DA(Digital to Analog) converter in the computer sound card than the computer speakers are.

People always think speakers are the most important part of an audio system but it’s the Source. A great amp or speakers only reveal what they are given. So if you had the non compressed version of the streaming service(CD quality) or even high res(better than CD quality) version playing into a high end streamer/DA converter into those same speakers and amp, it would be have much better sound.

 

[TheArchitect]

OP, I have 4 pairs of Kastle and have skied nothing but those Kastle since 2012. Last season I demo'd and bought a pair of 90Ti Mindbenders and I have no regrets. The quality is excellent and they ski great. My son has a pair as well. I had no idea they were manufactured in China until this thread.

 

[ski otter 2]

On relative quality, almost all the skis I've gotten new in the last few years have had initial tune problems, but been sound otherwise - wonderful even. (The exception has been the last two years of Stocklis - perfect; except when demoing with the reps two years ago.) The factory tunes on most brands, however, were haphazard, and effected how the skis handled first time out, often. By second time out, I often had time into fixing and fine-tuning, including with my most recent K2s (Pinnacle 105, MB 99 & MB 108). The MB 108 in particular was way off: it took a second round of fine-tuning; and, unfortunately, Covid cut short my chance to test if things are finally up to the standard of the two versions I've demoed.

In line with my own experience, many of the major brand reps have told me they put a lot of effort into tuning their new skis, put through just the right machines at just the right shops, and then finished by skilled rep hands, for most skis and brands. And still, it's understandably not an easy process: for many brands, each year, there are shortcomings - tunes messed up. A lot of skis to get right and maintain: amazing they do as well as they do.

 

[TheArchitect]

On relative quality, almost all the skis I've gotten new in the last few years have had initial tune problems, but been sound otherwise - wonderful even. (The exception has been the last two years of Stocklis - perfect; except when demoing with the reps two years ago.) The factory tunes on most brands, however, were haphazard, and effected how the skis handled first time out, often. By second time out, I often had time into fixing and fine-tuning, including with my most recent K2s (Pinnacle 105, MB 99 & MB 108). The MB 108 in particular was way off: it took a second round of fine-tuning; and, unfortunately, Covid cut short my chance to test if things are finally up to the standard of the two versions I've demoed.

In line with my own experience, many of the major brand reps have told me they put a lot of effort into tuning their new skis, put through just the right machines at just the right shops, and then finished by skilled rep hands, for most skis and brands. And still, it's understandably not an easy process: for many brands, each year, there are shortcomings - tunes messed up. A lot of skis to get right and maintain: amazing they do as well as they do.

I take all my new skis to www.skimd.com here in MA for their "Factory Fresh" tune, precisely because the actual MFR factory tune is so inconsistent. Mike, the owner of SkiMD tells me the only brand he sees with a great factory tune are Stocklis.

 

[Crank]

The beauty of big brands is that you can get them at significant discount at the end of the season. Take advantage of that, keeping in mind that you may have a hard time finding the model and length you want.

I know it took about seasons for me to find some leftover Head Kore 105's in the $400+ range vs $800+.

But yeah I can't get myself to spend $800 on a pair of boards.

 

[Philpug]

I take all my new skis to www.skimd.com here in MA for their "Factory Fresh" tune, precisely because the actual MFR factory tune is so inconsistent. Mike, the owner of SkiMD tells me the only brand he sees with a great factory tune are Stocklis.

I would go as far to say Stockli might have the least amound of inconsistent tunes. The worst factory tuned ski I experienced was indeed a Stockli.

 

[fatbob]

People always think speakers are the most important part of an audio system but it’s the Source. A great amp or speakers only reveal what they are given. So if you had the non compressed version of the streaming service(CD quality) or even high res(better than CD quality) version playing into a high end streamer/DA converter into those same speakers and amp, it would be have much better sound.

Wasn't that essentially the business case behind Tidal, notwithstanding that many subscribers were probably picked up for Jay Z and Beyonce exclusives etc


Edit re the other stuff - it seems to me that there has been creeping inflation in ski prices. Maybe it's not been noticed so much as other costs of skiing like day passes inflated more. Used to be with a moderate bundle discount from a savvy shop you could get on a decent ski with bindings for around $500-600. Now it seems that the tag on the rack starts that much higher. Maybe as a population skiers just have got used to never paying sticker price so there is a lot of smoke and mirrors now in pricing.

 

[Crank]

Last years K2 Ikonic 84($899 US/$950 CAN retail) is now selling for $570 CAN/$450 US with bindings, so as others have said you always get larger discounts on larger brands that you don’t get on smaller manufacturers.

I worked full time selling high end audio gear for 17 years(car detailing part time at the time) and we saw the movement away from manufacturing in North America/UK etc to China or Japan on their lower priced(usually under $2k items). Companies that had existing ties to factories in Japan went there and a few other build/trained their own factories in China which raised eyebrows as Japan was always perceived as the safer bet.

British manufacture B&W speakers, who sell speakers up to $50k US a pair moved to their new manufacturing plant in China in 2007 for speakers under $2k and they had complete control over the factory. We were all very nervous about the switch but the speakers were significantly better finished, sounded great and were a bit less expensive. Became a non issue after the first few months. Their more expensive products still made in Britain where they don’t have to be as price conscious.

So if you’re looking at skis, watches or audio gear at “non prestige” prices it’s not surprising they are producing overseas to save money but if done properly it can be done with no loss in quality.

I have a pair of Mackie powered PA speakers made in Italy. When the company went to MIC the sound quality came down significantly. However, so did the prices.

 

[parkrat]

Edit re the other stuff - it seems to me that there has been creeping inflation in ski prices. Maybe it's not been noticed so much as other costs of skiing like day passes inflated more.

Unless you ski less than one week a year, full price day passes don't make a lot of sense anymore in the US. The ski industry has been pushing customers to buy the multi-resort passes before the season starts: Epic, Ikon, Indy, or Mountain Collective.

 

[GregK]

Wasn't that essentially the business case behind Tidal, notwithstanding that many subscribers were probably picked up for Jay Z and Beyonce exclusives etc.

Yes, Tidal was one of the first to offer uncompressed/CD quality sound and even High Res/24 bit sound(which is even better than CD sound) on a music streaming service. Have used it on my home systems since it came out. Amazon and others now have different subscription packages offering different audio quality levels now too.

I have a pair of Mackie powered PA speakers made in Italy. When the company went to MIC the sound quality came down significantly. However, so did the prices.

“Made in ...” on speakers, especially those with built in amps can be misleading as there are only a tiny percentage(maybe 5 total in the world including B&W) that actually make all of the drivers, amps, cabinets and crossovers in-house. Most should really just say “speaker assembly done in ....” as most companies outsource all the speakers various components and just assemble/test at their factory.
So maybe in the case of Mackie, maybe different/cheaper choices were made in some of the outsourced parts that sacrificed quality.

Ski construction quality should be more consistent than some other assembled goods as there aren’t as many different suppliers of parts like ski edges and base materials.

 

[Andy Mink]

The reality is China can produce whatever you want at whatever quality you're willing to pay for. Everything from Happy Meal toys to adequate Harbor Freight tools to high end electronics comes from China. Yes, I'd like to "buy made in the USA" but the reality is that isn't always going to happen and, if it does, it may be out of my price range in many instances. To the OP's point, I wouldn't worry about a K2 ski manufactured in China. I've skied them and they are solid, well constructed, well finished skis that can compete with any other manufacturer's product at the same or higher price points.

 

[ski otter 2]

Say, why is "Stockli" (again, all 7 letters) I type in getting shortened to "St" later?

 

[snwbrdr]

Maybe it is just me but I find it hard to believe a K2 ski made in China would retail for $899.00. I have not considered a K2 product as a viable option since they moved production to China years ago. With a retail price greater than a Blossom White Out, I cannot believe they could be worth what K2 is asking.

Do they really have the materials, manufacturing process, and QA to justify that price, or is this becoming the new baseline retail price for skis?

If that's the case, Stöckli prices aren't that much greater for the proven quality you get.

Just asking.

Not all K2 skis cost $899.95 MSRP. It depends on what you're looking to buy. K2 has their "Press" skis for $299.95 MSRP

 

[MattFromCanada]

Not all K2 skis cost $899.95 MSRP. It depends on what you're looking to buy. K2 has their "Press" skis for $299.95 MSRP

The lovely K2 Press... the cheapest park ski money can buy. Can be found in Canada for a whopping $150 USD. Now that's a good deal....

 

[Bruuuce]

so people won't buy K2 because they are made in China so does that mean you won't buy all the other Brand ski's and ski gear made in China? How about India, Vietnam? Why is Switzerland or any other country any better or acceptable?

I used to completely agree with this...until...I spent two years working in supply chain and sourcing in China.

I found that the quality can be terrible or fantastic depending on how much time and effort the sourcing company spends to ensure quality is maintained. I've seen excellent quality in some of the products we sourced.

Why are other countries "better or more acceptable"? I can answer that. In that two years and time spent in China I can say that I was borderline horrified by what I saw. It changed my views on this subject forever. I saw a serious lack of concern for worker safety and environmental protection. I'm not talking about Shanghai or Beijing...I'm talking about where manufacturing actually occurs.

I saw workers handling hazardous chemicals with no respirators or other protective gear, equipment without any guards or emergency shutoffs, etc.

I also saw a complete lack of care in handling hazardous chemicals and controlling airborne pollutants. Here is a picture from my hotel room on my last visit:

No that isn't fog. It is air pollution.

Anyone who cares about climate change and/or worker safety should think about that when buying products where they have a choice of source country. I care about both and it changed my buying habits. Yes, Switzerland/Canada... are different and better.

 

[Ron]

I agree and there can be a difference. But ,the manufacturers can be controlled by the Company ordering the product. China is actually taking significant steps to clean up their environment and move to green energy, partially driven by the Paris accord and as more and more countries/corporations/consumers demand that manufacturing to be done in a safe and clean(er) manner. The same things are going on in India and other countries and will until people demand products to be manufactured in a responsible way. The tide is turning though.

however, keep in mind, the USA rolled back their regulations and now pollutes more than we did just 4 years ago.

 

[Bruuuce]

I agree but the manufacturers can be controlled by the Company ordering the product. China is actually taking significant steps to clean up their environment and move to green energy, partially driven by the Paris accord and as more and more countries/corporations/consumers demand that manufacturing to be done in a safe and clean(er) manner. The same things are going on in India and other countries and will until people demand products to be manufactured in a responsible way. The tide is turning though.

I stand by my comments. I have spent a great deal of time there and seen the reality. India also.

FYI, the Paris accord allows China to continue to increase pollution as long as they "reach peak emissions by 2030". That means no required decrease in emissions until then. That is what I saw and experienced. The manufacturers I talked with laughed when I asked about this agreement. I won't repeat what they said, but let's just say that they knew what they could get away with and remain "in compliance."

 

[Ron]

China’s Pledge to Be Carbon Neutral by 2060: What It Means (Published 2020)

Under international pressure to do more to address global warming, Xi Jinping made a surprise commitment to drastically reduce emissions. Now comes the hard part.

www.nytimes.com