Advantages of AWD in snow?

[raytseng]

Just put a bullet in me! End the misery!!

Oh, and make it a CVT too. What's all this about "gears" and "shifts" you are going on about?

 

[scott43]

Oh, and make it a CVT too. What's all this about "gears" and "shifts" you are going on about?

You know I actually have a soft spot for CVTs because of snow machines. But yeah, not in cars!

 

[cantunamunch]

You know I actually have a soft spot for CVTs because of snow machines.

Don't forget hydraulic CVTs in forklifts and things.

 

[snwbrdr]

You do realize that the traction circle still applies, even where ABS is not banned? You can't have maximum turning force when you have ANY braking force. The brakes can pulse as many times as you like in a second, but the steering angle of the wheels doesn't change that quickly.

Did you read the part I talked about the traction circle while the ABS is pulsating, it still applies during the fractions of the second it is not on the brakes.

The steering angle will change quickly while braking, it's the lateral grip of the tires that is important to the traction circle, especially in the snow and ice.

Some tires may excel in a straight line in the snow and ice, but then fall on their face when it comes to steering inputs, especially abrupt steering inputs.

See starting about 5:30

I would like to see F1 compete in the winter conditions, on snow & ice.

 

[snwbrdr]

If you picked a SUV with AWD; I think just about all of them, honda or otherwise, will then have snow-mode; just as a sake of that's what one expects for this segment offering.

Mine doesn't.. But I can easily put it into manual mode and have it start from 2nd gear.

 

[François Pugh]

Did you read the part I talked about the traction circle while the ABS is pulsating, it still applies during the fractions of the second it is not on the brakes.

And during the fractions of the second it is on the brakes you have less than maximum steering force. Do you want maximum steering force half the time you need it or all the time you need it? Depends on the situation. Sometimes you need maximum steering force for the swerve you have to make; sometimes you need maximum braking force for a given turn you're making. Choose wisely; you can defeat the traction control by not touching the brakes when you should not touch the brake, or by taking your foot off the brakes when you should take your foot off them.
BTW, it's also easier to get stuck with traction control on. Blind faith in technology has it's drawbacks.

 

[snwbrdr]

Mine doesn't.. But I can easily put it into manual mode and have it start from 2nd gear.

Untitled by thisistan, on Flickr

Also, the highlander hybrid I'm looking to buy doesn't have a snow mode, it does have a "Trail" button though

 

[snwbrdr]

Yes , but they don't have them because they are F1 banned ABS, forcing drivers to use their skills. I'm sure they would use ABS if allowed. So they are not used becuase of under performance, actually just the opposite, makes it easier . Banned in 1994, allowed previously: " ABS has been banned in F1 since 1994 for the sole reason of making drivers rely on more on skill rather than technology.

I don't think that's true, due to a race team's amount money for technology to make their cars fractions of a second faster, and not to mention, if their 2nd tier driver is going to win a race and screw up the points for their top driver, the team will force the 2nd tier driver to slow down and let their top driver pass them.


And see about the 2:50 mark with Clarkson interviewing Rubens Barrichello (The first F1 driver to beat the Stig)
Top Gear - SIARPC Rubens Barrichello 15x03 3-6 - SAPO Vídeos

A real driver's skill race was the old NASCAR IROC series, where all of the drivers compete is virtually identically prepared cars, so that it is down to the driver skill than the differences of the car.

Even still Top Gear's (Clarkson/Hammond/Slow) F1 drivers board with all of them driving in the Suzuki Liana was more about skill rather than technology.

 

[dbostedo]

Couple of posts deleted... no sniping or name-calling PLEASE. It's just a car thread.

 

[Ulmerhutte]

Came across this channel, which has many high production-values videos on tyre testing; this one being relevant to this thread:

 

[Atomicman]

Yes , but they don't have them because F1 banned ABS, forcing drivers to use their skills. I'm sure they would use ABS if allowed. So they are not used because of under performance, actually just the opposite, makes it easier . Banned in 1994, allowed previously: " ABS has been banned in F1 since 1994 for the sole reason of making drivers rely on more on skill rather than technology.

I don't think that's true, due to a race team's amount money for technology to make their cars fractions of a second faster, and not to mention, if their 2nd tier driver is going to win a race and screw up the points for their top driver, the team will force the 2nd tier driver to slow down and let their top driver pass them.

Absolutely true, I didn't make this up, you should google it and read why!

 

[François Pugh]

Came across this channel, which has many high production-values videos on tyre testing; this one being relevant to this thread:

A well done test. They need to repeat it with a rear-engine RWD VW. I suppose though an empty rear wheel drive pick'em up truck is more American.

 

[Nobody]

I’ll add the biggest thing about 4WD and AWD is that you get stuck deep and further in

The single most important thing is top tier snow tires if snow performance with ANY type of drivetain is wanted.
Tires are the ONLY thing that makes traction.
More driven wheels just divide the engine torque across more tires.

Nah, that's what 4WD low is for!

If you get pulled into the slop R or L with AWD or 4WD stomp on the gas and steer out. 2wd you're sucked in. Stopped in traffic on slippery hill? No problem AWD 4WD.

AWD and 4WD ONLY forever 4ME.

Just to get stuck another 10 feet further in , unfortunately speaking from experience.

Well, I have driven across Europe and across the Alps in all kind of weather for nearly thirty years...
Generally speaking, a modern fwd with good snow tyres , given that most of the roads are paved, is more than enough to see one through to destination.
This said, I still have super fond memories of my old, wastly underpowered, 1987 Jeep Cherokee (XJ frame, 2.1TD Renault engine with 87-90 bhp manual gearbox). Sure, it was a RWD 97% of the time, and when the roads were slippery, one had better to insert the 4WD ASAP. But the 4WD mode, the low gear, the higher driving position and the higher ground clearance of the frame were all extra nice things to have while driving from Southern France to Central Germany, through Northern Italy, Switzerland and Austria, any season...
One new years night, 'twas Jan 1st 1997, I was called at the office for an emergency, had to drive the 30+ km in a snowstorm that in few hours had put down 50-60 cm of snow everywhere, on the motorway too. No snowploughing around. Thanks to the 'LOW' gear, I was able to snowplough through the snow till the office, at night. Sadly I had to decommission the Jeep in 2001 and revert back to normal cars since then. Of all the cars I have had since, the best one to drive around has been the present one , a 2017 Skoda Octavia (1.6 litres TD, fwd, dsg gearbox). It has safely and happily taken me everywhere, even on "white" unpaved uneven mountain roads. The major and only negative point I can make is common to all the cars I have had since the Jeep, the lower ground clearance. I discovered, since the previous car (a Ford Focus, again fwd with automatic gearbox) that the "S" setting of the gearbox can be used as a sort of "low", btw.
Now that the lease is expiring on the current Octavia, I am faced with the choice between an Hybrid (2.5 litres Petrol-Electric), 4WD (not all the time, the rear axle is powered upon need by an additional electric engine) Toyota RAV4, or the newer Octavia (2.0 TD, DSG gearbox equipped).
I am very torn, on one side the higher clearance and driving position (and 4wd capability of sort) of the RAV4 are very tempting. On the other side, the known and trusty Octavia with all its perks (and lower operating costs, not to mention the lower leasing monthly fee)...mumble mumble

 

[Ogg]

A well done test. They need to repeat it with a rear-engine RWD VW. I suppose though an empty rear wheel drive pick'em up truck is more American.

To make it truly American it needs a V8, a lift and oversized wheels/tires.

 

[Tom K.]

A real driver's skill race was the old NASCAR IROC series, where all of the drivers compete is virtually identically prepared cars, so that it is down to the driver skill than the differences of the car.

QFT. Just one example of why I still prefer dirt bike racing over cars. Plus, the races don't last all afternoon.

 

[scott43]

The spec-car thing gets floated but how many spec-series succeed and have world interest? There's a reason people like watching Mercedes vs Ferrari vs McLaren etc. Auto racing isn't just about drivers and riders..