And then there are the young guys who aren't interested in improving because they think they are already awesome. (These are the ones who do the diagonal-ski-skid straight down the hill, flip to the other diagonal, keep going the same direction and think they've made a turn.) To @4ster 's point, a lot of these guys are moving really fast when the snow is firm.
I always think of bowling as the equivalent of some people skiing...I go once a year, or sometimes once every 5 years...sure it's fun to go for the game, as well as the social aspect. But I would not consider taking lessons and spending time improving my game. I'm just fine with where it's at...no need to improve, it's still fun. But if I were a lifer, I'd be bowling 3+ days a week, joining a league, and regularly trying to improve my throw (roll?).
I am not really familiar with Blister nor did I read the article but what I glean from reading this thread is that the Blister fans would probably see this skiing as mechanical & boring. I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder .You know what makes even bigger difference? Proper technique.
I learned that last spring skiing SL ski in the slush.
Just look at this beauty right here:
DA BOY IZ GOOOOOOOOOD!
Proper technique however is not something that comes right out of the box.
I am not really familiar with Blister nor did I read the article but what I glean from reading this thread is that the Blister fans would probably see this skiing as mechanical & boring. I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder .
BTW, I luv SL skis in the slush!
View attachment 179716
Straying back....Back to right and wrong skis, please.
uhm you do know I live in a country with more hydropower than we can use, and natural gas? :p we seem to be supplying europe with both right now...
Other than hand flexing, have you skied on M6, Montser 98, QST 98/106? They are very different skis and the QST 98Two of the skis they recommended for beginners are the salomon qst 98 and 106. These hand flex stiffer than a mantra m6 or head monster 98 in similar lengths. Interns hit publish before peer review?
@Slim I have used all four skis for ski reviews and for fun. Used the skis on groomers, scraped-off groomers, thrashed/choppedpowder, etc. From my experience, the QST line is way easier to ski and forgiving than a M6 or Head Monster. I guess a hand flex is not the only way to judge a ski. ThatGranted, I have not skied any of those. But my shop guys have, and they, and Blister reviewers both rate the QST series as fairly easy to ski, forgiving, and the Mantra and Monster as the opposite.
So, I would suspect, that since we don’t ski on our hands, that might not be a very useful metric
I guess a hand flex is not the only way to judge a ski.
I think they are pretty easy to ski as freeride skis go. Actually all of the above are pretty easy for me to ski. /HumblebragGranted, I have not skied any of those. But my shop guys have, and they, and Blister reviewers both rate the QST series as fairly easy to ski, forgiving, and the Mantra and Monster as the opposite.
So, I would suspect, that since we don’t ski on our hands, that might not be a very useful metric
Yes. I own all of them. Haven't skied the qst 106 yet, they just arrived last week.Other than hand flexing, have you skied on M6, Montser 98, QST 98/106? They are very different skis and the QST 98
110-120 flex
As a testimonial, we took a rep's wife to learn to ski( she was a snowboarder) and he brought her to our house with the Black Pearl 88. She struggled. We got her one of the intermediate carving skis from his fleet of test skis and she caught on quickly.
Later he scoffed at us and put her back on the Black Pearl. She struggled again.
The rocker threw her off and she couldn't make them turn.
Now she's skiing a ton and is on wider/rockered skis but she was only able to get there by skiing a true intermediate skis with shape and full camber while she was finding her balance.
See my story above.I can see how very wide skis are harder to use on firm snow, but why is rocker detrimental for a beginner?
To be clear, I am not talking about fully rockered skis, I assume here we are talking about some tip and tail rocker.
And also, if it is truly icy, then again, I can see the detriment of rockered skis. But on normal hardpacked groomers?
This makes more sense of their approach, but I have to say when I read their articles I thought they had no idea what a beginner or intermediate skier is.The comments section in that article is interesting where the writer has addressed some of the questions / challenges people here are posing. For example:
David
Not sure I would want to teach small “never-evers” to wedge on an 85mm to 105mm ski. I know what you’re getting at but I think I still prefer a narrower shaped ski to work on proper technique from the ground up. I’m just afraid the width and rocker you suggest will perpetuate the poor technique we see in powder skiers, even in Warren Miller films.
Jonathan Ellsworth, Founder / Editor, Blister
I certainly know what you’re getting at, too, David. And while this is certainly a very big topic, I’d argue that this way of looking at things is a significant part of the problem. I.e., the less experienced or new skiers I see everyday I’m out on the mountain — on the narrow skis you’re referring to -— are *not* in ski lessons. They are by themselves or with their friends, and they are seriously struggling, suffering painful and / or embarrassing falls, etc.
So I think it’s a false start to assume that skis for ‘never evers’ ought to always / only be the skinny skis that might make sense for lessons or good for teaching people how to use their edges. Instead, I think the first priority is to do everything possible to help people who are trying out this sport just enjoy their first time on the mountain, and to give them equipment that will make that more likely, right away.
Do I think it would be good if the vast majority of ‘never evers’ got into a lesson right off the bat? Probably. But there are too many skiers out there who don’t go this route to make a case for sticking with the old ski shapes. And I think it would be more effective to get people on equipment that will work for them right away — to help get them excited to take some lessons — than to set them up on equipment that will cause them to struggle … then somehow expect them to want to go sign up for lessons so that they suffer less and fall less. That seems like an almost twisted way of initiating people into the sport, no?
In that context, I think the article seems reasonable. It seems as though they're acknowledging that the skis they're recommending may not be the best skis for a beginner moving through a progression of lessons with a professional instructor, but that they're making a recommendation based on how they're seeing most beginners getting into the sport (i.e. not in lessons). I don't know if they're right or wrong about how most people get into the sport, but it seems as though what they're suggesting could be seen as an adaptation of the idea that people should buy skis for the conditions they ski, not the conditions they want to ski. In this case though it's applied as suggesting people buy skis that are going to make it easier for them to have fun in the short term, not buy skis that will be great for them only after completing a series of lessons they may not ever take.
Not saying it's the best way to go, but I think sometimes we have to make concessions for the fact that not every beginner is going to have the same interests.
It's hard to read these threads without having an image of the get off my lawn meme in your head. For everyone that genuinely wants newbies to progress as fast as possible there seems to be someone who expresses it in a tone suggestive of you have to pay your dues and do it in this prescriptive manner before you are worthy of xxxx. With the cost and hassle of skiing for most that's gonna be a non starter for many younger newbies.
Unfortunately for those who abjure anything that smacks of a “prescriptive manner” there really isn’t an infinity of different ways to learn to ski well. To pretend that anything goes certainly won’t enable newbies to progress as fast as possible (or maybe even at all) however much of a hassle it may seem for younger people.It's hard to read these threads without having an image of the get off my lawn meme in your head. For everyone that genuinely wants newbies to progress as fast as possible there seems to be someone who expresses it in a tone suggestive of you have to pay your dues and do it in this prescriptive manner before you are worthy of xxxx. With the cost and hassle of skiing for most that's gonna be a non starter for many younger newbies.