Link to a demo of CARV by Tom Gillie on Youtube.
I asked Tom Gillie if he had done anything with CARV since doing the video. He said no. I have yet to find reviews that were positive. There were only a few and most described operational flaws, software glitches, wonky data along with some usable features.Link to a demo of CARV by Tom Gillie on Youtube.
I can’t imagine a design crew so lame it did not realize the influence of the boot and other things in the concept phase of the design.
There are some good interviews there. Thanks for sharing.If you listen to Tom Gellie's interview with Ron LeMaster they talk about Carve a bit. LeMaster wasn't familiar with it but was skeptical of the bottom of the foot pressure maps. His point was the tongue/front of the boot, and the back can throw off a bottom of the foot sensor. His point was you need bottom of the boot pressure sensors to be accurate of the forces.
http://www.podcastgarden.com/podcast/globalskiing
A lot of the suggestions are suspect and lead me to wonder about the usefulness of the device, although the data may be separated from the coaching.CARV put more information/documentation on their website last week. They have a FAQ section that is interesting. Below are two snips of some of that info.
@James @Tony S It looks like they did consider the boot with an estimate. Their fore/aft measure is under balance. It seems to be a sum of fore/aft and lateral. That shows up as a more-to-less number below. I'm not sure if the raw data can be accessed to step point to point through a turn.
So how does this device deal with front boot cuff/shin pressures?
Written by Jamie Salter
Updated over a week ago
Our sensors measure the pressure distribution across the bottom of the foot. We estimate the shin/ cuff pressures based on the total distribution across the foot.
What does Carv measure and what are the metrics?
Written by Jamie Salter
Updated over a week ago
Carv measures over 70 metrics on every turn which broadly fit into four distinct categories: balance, edging, rotary and pressure.
For each category, there are a number of core metrics that dominate the score. A description of each of these core metrics can be found in the app by pressing the info button when reviewing your Ski IQ, as shown in the image below:
View attachment 74117
Here's a description of each of the core metrics in more detail if you don't have the app to hand...
Balance
Balance refers to your forward / back and lateral position. To keep a well balanced position, bend your knees, keep your hips centered and over the feet and visualise keeping your nose over your toes.
Front:back force ratio
How far forward (or back) you are in your boots. A low value means you are leaning too far back. This is a very common problem and will reduce the pressure on the front edges of your ski, reducing control. It will also move your centre of balance away from centre, which will make you more unstable over bumps and ice. To increase this metric, move your weight forward until you can feel pressure under the ball of you foot and 'attack' the slope!
Edging
Edging movements adjust the edge angle of the skis in relation to the snow which causes the skis to slip, skid or carve. Good edging involves inclination of your legs while maintaining balance over the ski.
Edge similarity
The amount you tilt your skis at a similar angle on every turn. This metric compares the angle of each of your skis within the turn. Tilting the outer ski more than the inner ski is called 'A-framing' and is a common problem for intermediate skiers. This causes both skis to turn with a different radius and can lead to one of your skis skidding rather than carving.
Max. edge angle
The angle with which you tilt your skis relative to the slope. A higher edge angle can hold larger forces and can be achieved at higher speeds. It's a general indication of your ski performance.
Max edge duration
The amount of the turn your edge is engaged. To increase this metric, try to engage your edge earlier in the turn, and hold it throughout the turn.
Turn symmetry
On average, how similar your edging is between your skis. This is similar to the 'edge similarity' metric, but rather than compare your edging on every turn, this metric compares your average turn. This metric is also reflected in the average turn heatmap. If your left and right skis have similar colours (meaning they show similar average edge angles at each part of the turn), you will have a higher score.
Turn comparison
For this metric, Carv calculates which turn (either to the left or the right) is stronger. This metric is similar to turn symmetry, but instead of comparing your left and right skis, it compares your left and right turns.
Rotary
Rotary (a.k.a. steering) movements involve turning parts of the body relative to others. Rotary movements should originate in the feet and legs, while the upper body is stable and quiet (minimal rotary).
Turn smoothness
How smoothly you move your skis through the turn. A jerky and inconsistent turn will give you a worse score. Smooth skiing is more efficient. To improve this metric focus on linking the initiation, control and completion of the turn into one fluid motion so that they're not a distinct set of phases but rather a continuous process.
Turn symmetry (previously called 'Parallel Index')
Measures how well your skis move together. Try to keep your skis parallel throughout the entire turn and moving as one to improve this score.
Pressure
Pressure refers to the forces developing on the ski through the turn. Good pressure control is to extend to and balance on the new outside ski at the beginning of the turn and flex at the end of the turn.
Pressure control
How you build up pressure against the ski. The turn should be one fluid motion as you load up the ski into the transition of the turn and then release that pressure back down during completion. A jerky application of pressure will reduce this score.
Insideutside pressure
How much pressure you place on the outside ski versus the inside ski. The outside ski (i.e. the ski further out from the turn centre) should have more pressure. A common problem among intermediate skiers is leaning too far into the turn and placing too much pressure on the inside ski. This will reduce the amount of grip and make you more unstable over bumps and ice.
Turn symmetry
On average, how similar the application of pressure is between your left and right feet.
Turn comparison
For this metric, Carv calculates which turn (either to the left or the right) is stronger. This metric is similar to turn symmetry, but instead of comparing your left and right skis, it compares your left and right turns.
Exactly, i don't know where the idea of weight on the ball of your foot started, butt it's wrong.its a flawed premise that your in balance should be on the ball of your foot. So flawed that I think using this product and trying to keep it from beeping at you could potentially make someone a worse skier.
BTW I am not nervous about being replaced, I would love to use something like this if it was based on actually movements and balanced, not what some well meaning but ill informed creator decided was right and wrong.
Possibly from a lot of other sports (football, basketball, soccer, etc.) where a "ready stance" has the weight on the balls of your feet because you can react/push off/begin to move any direction faster from that position.i don't know where the idea of weight on the ball of your foot started
Carv sent me a unit last week that I'm going to try. I haven't had a chance to take it onto the snow yet but when I do, I will happily write a report on it. I'm excited by it's potential. It will be interesting to see if the units have changed since the YouTube video reviews mentioned here, as they now more than a year old. I think the Gellie review has more impact for me (even though it's more than 2 years old now) and I think he sees the potential of the device with all of the metrics it can provide. I found the Twist review (more than 1 year old) to be less insightful. Most of the video is him struggling to put the device together as he hasn't read the instructions and then the important stuff (the review of how he actually went using the device on snow) was glossed over. It's interesting to note therefore the difference in opinion of a veteran instructor (Tom Gellie) and a member of the general skiing public (that is an assumption on my part that Josh Twist is not an industry veteran, my apologies if I am incorrect in this assumption).
I think that's what interests me the most is the level of data that the device can show me. I don't get too much opportunity to be given feedback on my skiing and I'm always interested to learn and improve. I can have people film me (but realistically if that happens it only happens early season when I'm not overseas guiding) and I can look at that footage for feedback. A lot of that feedback depends on the quality of the video though. I can also feel things in my skiing and focus on them too and make adjustments accordingly, but now for the first time I have a device that I can hopefully use to generate hard data about what is working well and what isn't whilst skiing. I've not had access to information like that before and I'm excited to see what information I can gain and how I can use it to affect change. This is a whole new scope of learning and that's an exciting prospect. Other sports have developed digital technology to measure performance and now skiing has that opportunity too.
It's important to note that I didn't pay for my device, it was given to me by Carv to review, but I will try to keep my reviews open and honest. As a ski instructor I'm looking to see if I can use these devices for the future and if they are a useful tool for my clients. Can they be integrated into a successful lesson plan and give additional feedback/metrics that I couldn't give my client or are they a distraction? Hopefully my eye and the hard data from Carv can integrate seamlessly. I'm probably more interested in the free-training metrics but will definitely check out the lesson programs to see if they have value as well.
I'm happy to post my findings on this thread or write a new one, whatever is easiest. Hopefully I can get out on snow next week to try the units for the first time......
- Matt
Any device that has the "potential" to degrade the boot fit is a non-starter for me. I just don't think any of my boot setups can take even an additional 1mm under my foot. Maybe if I had this in hand before final fitting and incorporated it into the setup it might be doable.
Hi -Any updated feedback from any of the Carv users here? I'm finally getting back to real skiing each year now that my wife has picked it up. And I do usually a day to 2 days of private lessons each year but I wonder if I could get value from something like this. I don't expect it to replace lessons but just wondering if other users here have found it useful for just consistent feedback on positioning and turning? It seems like it would be good to just have a reminder when your form slips so to speak and a way to ingrained better habits - but thats what I would imagine the value would be here in the product.