EV or no EV?

[James]

Until you can get 12 hours at highway speeds in all conditions it's a non starter.

You don’t own an ice car that can go 12 hours without refueling. There’s very few vehicles that can do that, and manufacturers could care less about a 1000mile range in an ice light weight vehicle. There’s almost none available.

As for your thinking Tesla people will be concerned about Ford drivers, they’re not. They’re generally into expanding the ev market, not being exclusive. They’re also generally very happy when Tesla does well, and this is good for Tesla.

They’re not just a car company. They’re going to be an energy company too, as well as other things. So all those charging stations they put in, they’ll make money off. It’s too bad Volkswagen didn’t put their A team on the charging system they were required to do. It could’ve been a big asset.

Consider a late model Nissan Leaf if your wife wants an electric. Look at Fermata Energy, and see if you could get it set up for vehicle to grid, V2g. That way your car can make money in the summer at certain times if you want. Fermata’s charger is approved by Nissan and doesn’t harm the battery. May not be possible now, but the Leaf is one of the few able to do v2g.

Long haul trucks are likely to go hydrogen. No carbon, so no CO2 out.
But here’s a very unusual setup, far bigger than US trucks. 160 tons hauling mining material, battery swapping. Not real long haul, but going to run 24/7.

World-first electric triple road train launches in SA

Battery change-over can be completed in the same time it takes for traditional refuelling, with the bulk of the electricity coming from renewable energy.

bigrigs.com.au

 

[AlpsSkidad]

The idling is important when it's -25c..

Also if it’s hot and running A/C… or to keep the k9 in back cool.

 

[afadeev]

The LEO and military vehicles won't be 100% EVs until the power grid is 100% renewable and immune to weather related disruptions.

That's a nonsensical claim.
Gasoline supplies are not 100% renewable, nor are the immune from weather disruptions.

Some applications lend themselves to EV adoption for financial or practical purposes. Some don't.
Nothing is 100% black or white. Life doesn't work like that.

You evaluate and adopt new ideas and new technologies, as appropriate.
Progress is gradual, and is never a step function.

a

 

[crgildart]

You don’t own an ice car that can go 12 hours without refueling. There’s very few vehicles that can do that, and manufacturers could care less about a 1000mile range in an ice light weight vehicle. There’s almost none available.
-first-electric-triple-road-train-launches-in-sa/[/URL]

I'll settle for one that can go 12 hours with 30-45 minutes of refueling AND grabbing drive thru food/bathroom breaks.

 

[crgildart]

That's a nonsensical claim.
Gasoline supplies are not 100% renewable, nor are the immune from weather disruptions.

Hell of a lot less disrupted than above ground power lines... which is what we have here most places.

 

[crgildart]

Consider a late model Nissan Leaf if your wife wants an electric. Look at Fermata Energy, and see if you could get it set up for vehicle to grid, V2g. That way your car can make money in the summer at certain times if you want. Fermata’s charger is approved by Nissan and doesn’t harm the battery. May not be possible now, but the Leaf is one of the few able to do v2g.

We live in an area where net metering rules make it illegal to get money from our own solar panels, we only get power bill credits towards future bills.

Hydrogen fuel cell technology would be my preferred platform for all vehicles of the future. But then the price of water goes way up..

 

[James]

I'll settle for one that can go 12 hours with 30-45 minutes of refueling AND grabbing drive thru food/bathroom breaks.

Well here you go. Tesla Model Y LR.
Durham-Killington, 12 1/2hr, 745mi. 1hr20min total in charging. So in the ball park.Charging from 6 min to 20min. A half hour on a 12 hr journey is pretty meaningless. You’re not racing.

Set to 115% speed limit, max 87mph.

ABRP

ABetterRouteplanner is the world's most popular consumer EV routeplanner - both for beginner and experienced EV drivers. And of course for anyone curious about EVs.

abetterrouteplanner.com

 

[James]

We live in an area where net metering rules make it illegal to get money from our own solar panels, we only get power bill credits towards future bills.

Hydrogen fuel cell technology would be my preferred platform for all vehicles of the future. But then the price of water goes way up..

Why the like of hydrogen? It’s incredibly inefficient for cars and ties you to a filling station once again. Almost the entire country is electrified. There’s electricity in far more places than gas stations now. Hydrogen filling stations

Hydrogen fuel cells may just largely be bypassed. Toyota has been obsessed with them but finally got rid of their ceo pushing that and ev misinformation. It’s seriously hurt Toyota and Japan. Hydrogen is certainly being pushed by oil companies.

Here’s the report from a Japanese organization. Hydrogen has accomplished little for Japan in over 5 years.

https://www.renewable-ei.org/pdfdownload/activities/REI_JapanHydrogenStrategy_EN_202209.pdf

The Duke Energy monopoly in North Carolina I guess prevents a lot of things.
Well, even they are doing a pilot program. It may just be something to say they studied it then reject it. No idea.

———-
Duke Energy has filed for North Carolina Utilities Commission (NCUC) approval of a new demand response pilot program expected to launch in 2023 for customers in the Duke Energy Carolinas (DEC) service area. Pilot incentives will reduce vehicle lease payments for program participants who lease an eligible electric vehicle (EV), including Ford F-150 Lightning trucks. In exchange, customers will allow their EVs to feed energy back to the grid – helping to balance it during peak demand.
————————

Illuminating possibility: Duke Energy and Ford Motor Company plan to use F-150 Lightning electric trucks to help power the grid

Duke Energy and Ford Motor Company are leading the charge to expand vehicle-to-grid (V2G) charging using the new F-150 Lightning electric truck’s rugged batteries as a workhorse at home and on the electric grid.

news.duke-energy.com

 

[cantunamunch]

Here’s the report from a Japanese organization. Hydrogen has accomplished little for Japan in over 5 years.

https://www.renewable-ei.org/pdfdownload/activities/REI_JapanHydrogenStrategy_EN_202209.pdf

^Good article. Love that they included ammonia co-firing of coal.

 

[locknload]

Just returned from a Mammoth trip this weekend...383 miles from my house in my friends Rivian. Yesterday on the return trip, we charged once for about 30 minutes and had lunch at that stop. Made it home with 18% charge left. It required a bit more juice to head up there due to the gain in elevation. Rivian has their own chargers that sit it many of the same place as Teslas. We only used Rivian chargers on this trip and it there is no cost for a Rivian owner to use them (at least in his first year of ownership as far as I understand). Zero cost to get up there and back (was able to plug in at the place we stayed so we left with a 100% charge). So bottom line: a 30 minute stop and zero cost..pretty hard to beat.

 

[James]

Have Combustion Vehicle Sales Already Peaked?

With EVs becoming more popular around the world, have combustion vehicles reached a peak? Find out in this infographic.

www.visualcapitalist.com

 

[Seldomski]

Hydrogen fuel cell technology would be my preferred platform for all vehicles of the future. But then the price of water goes way up..

Why? Fuel cells are essentially a different kind of battery. They are actually more temperamental than a battery (regarding temperature for operation) and have their own unique consumables and issues with precious metals needed. You can't just take some water from your sink, crack it with solar power and easily fill up your tank. You have to remove all the water vapor and oxygen from the H2 gas produced. And the water you start with has to be extremely pure, lab grade stuff. It takes something about the size of ISO container/semi truck trailer to make ~5kg of H2 in 24 hrs (approximate amount needed to drive 300miles) and store it at a pressure relevant for putting it into a 3000 psi + tank.

Also real easy to get H2 leaks and blow up your house...

If there was some massive improvement in storage of hydrogen, then it could become a player again. It's just really hard to store enough of it in gaseous state. If that could be solved, then H2 could become another 'battery' for storing energy temporarily.

 

[locknload]

Just returned from a Mammoth trip this weekend...383 miles from my house in my friends Rivian. Yesterday on the return trip, we charged once for about 30 minutes and had lunch at that stop. Made it home with 18% charge left. It required a bit more juice to head up there due to the gain in elevation. Rivian has their own chargers that sit it many of the same place as Teslas. We only used Rivian chargers on this trip and it there is no cost for a Rivian owner to use them (at least in his first year of ownership as far as I understand). Zero cost to get up there and back (was able to plug in at the place we stayed so we left with a 100% charge). So bottom line: a 30 minute stop and zero cost..pretty hard to beat.

BTw

Just returned from a Mammoth trip this weekend...383 miles from my house in my friends Rivian. Yesterday on the return trip, we charged once for about 30 minutes and had lunch at that stop. Made it home with 18% charge left. It required a bit more juice to head up there due to the gain in elevation. Rivian has their own chargers that sit it many of the same place as Teslas. We only used Rivian chargers on this trip and it there is no cost for a Rivian owner to use them (at least in his first year of ownership as far as I understand). Zero cost to get up there and back (was able to plug in at the place we stayed so we left with a 100% charge). So bottom line: a 30 minute stop and zero cost..pretty hard to beat.

Forget to mention...cruising 80 MPH ish the entire way.

 

[cantunamunch]

BTw

Forget to mention...cruising 80 MPH ish the entire way.

Eh, nvm that, how was the onboard storage...would @tball be OK with it?

 

[locknload]

Eh, nvm that, how was the onboard storage...would @tball be OK with it?

He may not be. We were in the truck and had skis on the rack sitting over the bed. We had gear in the bed which is a shorter bed in the R1T. There is a gear tunnel as well. Nice vehicle overall with cool bells and whistles. I will tell you that I didn't think the passenger seat was all that comfortable. Ride is a bit stiff overall. I had considered the Rivian and I still may in the future...it is a mid sized vehicle not a large sized one. The SUV looks a bit bigger.

 

[AlpsSkidad]

Just returned from a Mammoth trip this weekend...383 miles from my house in my friends Rivian. Yesterday on the return trip, we charged once for about 30 minutes and had lunch at that stop. Made it home with 18% charge left. It required a bit more juice to head up there due to the gain in elevation. Rivian has their own chargers that sit it many of the same place as Teslas. We only used Rivian chargers on this trip and it there is no cost for a Rivian owner to use them (at least in his first year of ownership as far as I understand). Zero cost to get up there and back (was able to plug in at the place we stayed so we left with a 100% charge). So bottom line: a 30 minute stop and zero cost..pretty hard to beat.

You mention only charging on the way back, but needing more juice on the way up? Did you charge on the way to Mammoth? I’d also imagine winter driving load would be higher than now with heat or heated seats on etc. 18 miles remaining would give me range anxiety.

 

[locknload]

You mention only charging on the way back, but needing more juice on the way up? Did you charge on the way to Mammoth? I’d also imagine winter driving load would be higher than now with heat or heated seats on etc. 18 miles remaining would give me range anxiety.

We added a smaller, shorter charge session on the way up..maybe 20 mins. He's still working out the logistics on this route and where the charging options are AND where he can charge for free. Winter driving load likely is higher but he did his virgin voyage back in April and it was colder at the time. We'd have to do a full side by side to see exactly how much more when temps were colder. In terms of 18%...that wasn't very anxiety creating because the last 2.5 hours of the ride there were tons of charging options around us as we returned into the highly populated inland empire and Riverside area. It WOULD create anxiety if you were in a rural area with few charging options around.

While charging anxiety is real, as you long as you have an understanding of your charging options along the route it can be very easily mitigated. The decision making process we underwent to decide where and when to charge wasn't much more complicated then where you consider to get gas and whether you will eat a meal or go the bathroom at the same time. This trip proved it out to me. YMMV depending on what vehicle you have, how far you want to go and what the charging infrastructure is along the way. I'll repeat again for emphasis...it cost him ZERO dollars to drive to and from Mammoth. I'll let Californians do the math on the how much that would've cost him in an equivalent truck in gasoline.

 

[Jwrags]

Also real easy to get H2 leaks and blow up your house...

Not sure I want to drive around a Hindenburg.

 

[cantunamunch]

I kinda want to hear from someone who drove up there in a going storm - like how much did regen have to be cut back, how much the stability control did (or didn't) do, how the steering felt in massive crosswinds. And, ofc, what that did to the energy usage overall.

Not sure I want to drive around a Hindenburg.

The interesting-to-me part of that story is that it could have been helium - except the US had a lockout on the world's helium supply.

As a sidenote, remember the Honda fuel-at-home concept? Imagine having hydrogen AND carbon monoxide to manage...

 

[afadeev]

We were in the truck and had skis on the rack sitting over the bed. We had gear in the bed which is a shorter bed in the R1T. There is a gear tunnel as well. Nice vehicle overall with cool bells and whistles. I will tell you that I didn't think the passenger seat was all that comfortable. Ride is a bit stiff overall. I had considered the Rivian and I still may in the future...it is a mid sized vehicle not a large sized one. The SUV looks a bit bigger.

How large is R1T's bed in real life?
Were skis stored diagonally across the bed?

Here is what I was able to scavenge off internet:

• Rivian R1T has a 4.6-foot bed. That's about 140cm in length, or max 198mm diagonally?
• F-150 Lightning's comes in at 5.5 feet.
• Tesla Cybertruck is supposed to have a 6.5-foot bed.

Performance will be ridiculous for all three, with higher end trips with extended batteries being stupid fast with 320-400+ mile range.

I'm semi-actively shopping for either R1T or CyberTruck (have reservation for the latter), but don't know if either can adequately replace my Odyssey.
Ideally, there should be enough space (once appropriate storage racks are installed) so safely and securely transport 6+ pairs of skis (longest is 186mm), 4 bikes (easy), and 3+ surfboards (long board is 8'). Naturally, not all at the same time, with load being seasonally appropriate.