Fall at speed - stop slide

[Paul Lutes]

There is also, IMHO, a risk reward consideration. Racers ski steep icy courses at borderline control to maximize the chance of winning. And they have B-nets to minimize risk of fatal injuries.

But for us, recreational skiers, there is a choice. Personally, steep and icy (or even firm) is a combination I have no interest on. It is so much easier to self arrest in soft snow. I mostly ski offpiste so uncontrolled falls can be more consequential.

You didn't mention how the conditions were in your slide, so I have no idea whether firm conditions were a factor. But this is one thing we can control, when to hit that very steep groomer. Hero snow is a much better time than frozen.

My 2cts

Steep and icy certainly requires some evaluation, but the most critical element is what waiting lower down/below you; big wide open bowels that ease out into mild slope - go for it. Tight slots/ dog legs, etc., absolutely be conservative.
A lot also depends on the individual response to the situation: freak out vs ... "OK, didn't smash my face into the snow, lets feather my skis/boots to avoid hitting those people/rocks/trees, but if that doesn't work at least warn those people below me".
It's generally very disorienting to suddenly find yourself no longer vertical, but if you play it out in your mind enough before hand you do actually have half a chance.

 

[AJB]

This happened to my wife a few years ago. She slid a few hundred feet spinning on her back.and eventually came to a stop, unharmed. People were staring from the top in disbelief and eventually a guy skied down to pick up her dropped poles. I missed it all since I took the trees to skier right- they were really good trees too.

I haven’t had a good slide or fall for that matter in a while. Occasionally if I hook and edge or get a little too sideways on steep ice I am able to stop using my skis. Sometimes you can even pop back up. I would rather try to stop the fall at the risk of flipping rather than jiust accept and out of control slide. I skis in the woods alone a lot and am not too proud to sidestep or even take my skis off and slide a bit instead of hucking a yellow ice drop wrecking my skis and crashing into a tree full speed.

Good to hear your wife was unharmed. 200’ wow! After 25 years skiing as an adult I’ve taken some falls here and there, but this was first major slide that was concerning. Was lucky to be in open bowl no obstacles. Don’t think I’d want to try to stop and tomahawk though.

 

[AJB]

There is also, IMHO, a risk reward consideration. Racers ski steep icy courses at borderline control to maximize the chance of winning. And they have B-nets to minimize risk of fatal injuries.

But for us, recreational skiers, there is a choice. Personally, steep and icy (or even firm) is a combination I have no interest on. It is so much easier to self arrest in soft snow. I mostly ski offpiste so uncontrolled falls can be more consequential.

You didn't mention how the conditions were in your slide, so I have no idea whether firm conditions were a factor. But this is one thing we can control, when to hit that very steep groomer. Hero snow is a much better time than frozen.

My 2cts

That’s the irony here, upper section icy and steep, lower section (-1000’) not quite as steep blown out and soft (temps in upper 40s). Hit a pile at speed and boom!

 

[Rod9301]

If you end up rolling do you want your skis rolling with you?

Always keep your skis on. You can stop with the edges, but not with your boots only.

 

[David]

Always keep your skis on. You can stop with the edges, but not with your boots only.

If they stay on in a roll or cartwheel. People can get cut pretty bad by an edge.

 

[AltaSkier]

If you are going to ski steep/icy terrain, you need to learn how to effectively and safely self arrest. This is NOT using your skis. Sure you can use your skis before speed picks up, but once you are clipping along at a good pace, you need to know how to roll yourself over and dig the pole tip into the snow. You will need to make this decision on stopping in a fraction of a second. Self arresting with a ski pole or ice axe (yep, backcountry steeps) is a skillset any advanced skier needs to have in their wheelhouse.

There is a big, big difference between a fall and fast slide, and a slide for your life. I am speaking to the latter.

Many moons ago, I was skiing a hanging snowfield with a few guys I had just met. The guy in front of me hooked a tail and went down. The pace that he picked up speed was staggering and he did all he could to get it under control. Guess this was digging in a ski edge because I heard his leg violently break. I went for help while his buddies tried to help him. He did what he had to do to keep from going off the cliff at the bottom, but he also didn't survive.

Again, learn to use your poles to self arrest. It actually works pretty good.

 

[Vampire Cat]

I agree with the posters saying to evaluate the risk/reward of skiing a steep, icy run, as well as consider the run out. Sometimes the right decision is to try a run another day when the conditions are better, no matter how skilled you are, if the conditions and fall consequences are bad.

Kind of obvious, but if you are intending to use a pole to self arrest you can't have the strap on (or at least need to be prepared to quickly remove it) and you have to maintain control of it when you fall and not let go. The reality is that if it's steep enough and icy enough there may be no potential for self arrest even if you've practiced a lot and have just the right gear. If you do manage to arrest your fall it may be at the cost of significant injury to structures like your shoulder.

I'd rather NOT have my skis on if I've fallen and am accelerating down the hill. As has been mentioned, engaging them is a good chance to flip yourself and completely lose control or to cause catastrophic leg injuries. IMO the reasoning here is just like self arresting with crampons on. Maybe give engaging what's on your foot a shot if you're about to go somewhere you really don't want to go, but know that it's probably going to suck.

 

[AltaSkier]

Here is a good video explaining how to self arrest with a ski pole. He demonstrates about 3:30 in.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Hi everyone,

Looking for peoples experience on how they were able to slow and stop a slide after a fall at speed. At Mammoth this past week on a steeper groomer (~35-38) and at speed ended up on back before I even knew what happened (still don’t know ) Slid for must have been 100 feet. Fell at speed and was able to rotate so head was uphill, and I kept skis up and edges away from fall line to avoid catching edge and going head over heals. Attempted to drag poles and arms but seemed to do little. Not sure if there was anything else I could have done other than let Mother Nature and Physics run their course. Thanks!

At speed means a lot of things to different people. 100 ft slide while it sounds far isn't depending on the slope and the speed you are going, unless of course there are obstacles that are closer.

I've crashed and burned on one or two occasions (that I'll admit) when I had more bravado than brains well into the 60-70mph range in the days of no helmets. Protect the head, and do everything to arrest the fall, even using the skis to cause arrest, the secret is not to dig them in just to drag tips or tails to act as drag. Boots and buckles do the same.

Ski poles tips....right! I wear straps so dig the grips in as grabbing the poles to use the tips is just not an option.

Elbows, knees wrists work as well.

Last and most important, avoid anything that is stationary (anything solid) or slower (skier or snow boarder) than you as both create injury for one or both.

Finally, if you don't know what happened, you're not in control. Bad skier, bad.

I can tell you the reason for each and every crash that I've had, slow or fast and 99.9% it is user error that initiated it, even when the final cause was pre-release on bindings on several occasions that prevented recovery of the error.

My advice is take this a warning that your limits and ability may not be what you expect them to be, look at the cause, and improve. Ski safe, protect yourself and in turn protect others, accept the ski gods blessing that nothing bad happened and ski on and pray each and everyone in the future (yes you are going to have more) has the same good outcome.

 

[Andy Mink]

I can tell you from experience that getting an edge in even while moving fairly slowly on steep terrain can be a recipe for disaster. Because it's steep you're closer to verticle. It doesn't take much to go from almost standing again to going over the handlebars. And it doesn't take a lot of edge to do it. From there on it's not a slide, it's a rag doll tomahawk. And it sucks. But don't worry, shoulders can be surgically repaired.

 

[crosscountry]

After reading 3 pages, seems the consensus is not much can do that has real effect!

(The “humor” is just people’s way of not wanting to deal with unpleasant reality)

I have watched a friend had one such slide, from below, after I’ve skied it safely and in control. Although he was unharmed, it gave me a wake up call of what could happen. I’ve dialed back my own terrain choices since. It only take one small mistake to result in major life changing consequences.

 

[tch]

Good decisions (not always obvious or easy to make) are the very best way to avoid problems. We were just at Big White and, although patrol had opened the Cliff chair, it seemed really dicey given the thaw-freeze cycle we were in. Sure enough, as we exited the Bullet Express lift, we were treated to the sight of a snowboarder going over and then sliding perhaps 150+ feet, forwards and then backwards, culminating with a nice drop over an exposed rock band. It was long enough that I saw him go over, turned away to alert my friends, and then turned back to see him still sliding. We waited (along with about 15 of us onlookers) until he got back on his feet and seemed ok...but it could not have been a pleasant experience.

 

[crosscountry]

Good decisions (not always obvious or easy to make)

Indeed not easy to make (nor obvious).

In the incident I mentioned, I've already skied that path twice before, with no issue. He took a slightly different line, gone a bit faster, then somehow got unlucky and caught his edge...

I watched him bounced over ledges and somehow missed the rocks. I got a sickening feeling in my stomach. It could have been me there too. I'm not perfect on every single turn...

 

[Rod9301]

I should modify my response.
I assumed we were talking about steep in terms of resort skiing, ie maybe 35 degrees.
In this case, i still advocate using the edges, but not abruptly.

If we are taking about Backcountry terrain, 45-50 degrees, not much will help.

You have to keep fighting, using the pole as an ice axe, will help to orient feet first, not so much to stop, maybe slow down.

But unless you react within the first second, tough luck.
When i ski terrain this steep, i try to never fall. And i am at peace with the possibility that if i fall, i can get really hurt.

 

[crgildart]

Love all the posturing here.. Like we're going to be using pick axe pole handles in bounds. Ya zero point 005% of the folks boasting here are going to go full ice ax at the gathering hahahaha..

 

[Paul Lutes]

Whippets for the win? They're probably better for the up than the down.

Not seeing so much posturing ......
Varied, experience based opinions, yes; posturing, no.

 

[JFB]

Whippet ski poles for the win!

 

[crosscountry]

Whippets for the win? They're probably better for the up than the down.

Not seeing so much posturing ......
Varied, experience based opinions, yes; posturing, no.

What some people do routinely is seen as posturing by those who only done it occasionally, or never done it.

I learned not to talk about my skiing in my office. Or I’d be seen as posturing by some of my more city-centric colleagues.

 

[dbostedo]

Whippet ski poles for the win!

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I feel like I'd be more likely to hurt myself with those, than help myself with those... but my falls are not generally the type to need those anyway. If I was in terrain that they made sense in, I'd sure have them just in case. (Or ice axes, whatever is needed.)

 

[JFB]

I feel like I'd be more likely to hurt myself with those, than help myself with those... but my falls are not generally the type to need those anyway. If I was in terrain that they made sense in, I'd sure have them just in case. (Or ice axes, whatever is needed.)

Yeah, I have one BD Whippet (it was given to me) but have never used it because I don't ski terrain where it's warranted. And if I did, I think I would use that retractable Grivel.

Yeah, not exactly posturing.