In defence of narrow skis

[Jilly]

Interesting article in Ski Canada:

http://skicanadamag.com/defence-narrow-skis/

This goes along with Monique's and Paul S's threads.

I have arthritis in both knees and feel the pain of the wider skis. And I have argued with many people that the wider skis, I'm saying 85+ aren't the best on our eastern hills. But the verdict is still out. This poor guy though.....new knee.

 

[SBrown]

I mean, I get this, I am not arguing the science, but ... "There had to be something that caused severe erosion of the cartilage on the inner aspect of my knee joints." Um, because only skiers on wide skis have ever had this happen to them. Nothing to do with physiology, genetics, or any other of a million reasons that there are 600,000 knee replacements every year in the US alone.

 

[Uncle Louie]

My narrowest is 73 under foot and stiff with a 10ft radius and I touch up the edges after no longer than 3 days on the hill, usually less.

Give me a frozen surface and I'm all over it. It's a blast skiing on that ski as long as the surface isn't soft snow (pow - corn - warm& wet etc). I never go out on my toy skis unless there is something firm to ski on. Never in the bumps with those either as they are so stiff.

If I switch to my widest, at 90 under foot (like mid-day) I can feel the amount of extra effort it takes to move from edge to edge at transition (and of course the longer radius). It's nothing to worry about because it's not exactly significant but it IS there. Of course not only is it more effort but it takes more time to make the transition the wider the ski is.

My knees are fine on both skis but the narrower are far easier to turn.

 

[SpikeDog]

Plenty of us remember when Olin Outer Limits and Volant Chubbs seemed impossibly wide at 88 - 94 mm waist. I'm cool with a 90 mm ski in virtually all conditions out west these days.

 

[SBrown]

I mean, I get this, I am not arguing the science, but ... "There had to be something that caused severe erosion of the cartilage on the inner aspect of my knee joints." Um, because only skiers on wide skis have ever had this happen to them. Nothing to do with physiology, genetics, or any other of a million reasons that there are 600,000 knee replacements every year in the US alone.

So, I've been pondering this for the past hour. I think it could be true, still: you could have more than one reason to need (kneed?) a replacement.

 

[cantunamunch]

So, I've been pondering this for the past hour. I think it could be true, still: you could have more than one reason to need (kneed?) a replacement.

As cancer researchers and war historians will tell us, triggers are not causes and causes are not triggers. For the purposes of this thread we can agree that wider is more likely to trigger than narrower, yes? Looking for reasons and causes is beyond the scope.

I have arthritis in both knees and feel the pain of the wider skis. And I have argued with many people that the wider skis, I'm saying 85+ aren't the best on our eastern hills.

No argument from me - 45mm waists are fun . Which makes one wonder - do we have any reports on knee pain from nordic ski world? Skate skiers are on edge with every stride.

 

[mister moose]

Plenty of us remember when Olin Outer Limits and Volant Chubbs seemed impossibly wide at 88 - 94 mm waist. I'm cool with a 90 mm ski in virtually all conditions out west these days.

You can drive all year round on snow tires too, doesn't mean there isn't other options, and some options will perform better in the summer.

I like both. Give me 66 and give me 90. And in between. That's an east coast opinon, but I'm pretty sure Nastar winners aren't skiing on 90mm in Colorado.

 

[crgildart]

De Fence of narrow skis.. and a couple early wider ones..

 

[KingGrump]

And I have argued with many people that the wider skis, I'm saying 85+ aren't the best on our eastern hills.

It was 39˚ F at Stratton this past Tuesday. We had a wonderful day cruising the soft mush on our 88/90 all mountain skis.
Temps dropped into the 20's overnight. We were on our FIS SL for Wednesday. Watching some of our fellow skiers slip sliding away on their wide skis were, shall we say, rather entertaining.

The race kids were having a blast on their race skis.

 

[Monique]

From the article:


My solution was to go to the narrowest ski I could find (70mm) and to avoid hard-snow conditions.

That latter piece seems important, somehow. It's specifically what Susan and I were talking about in the other thread.

 

[Monique]

I fully support anyone who wants to ski narrow skis to do so, btw. I do, however, have an allergy to waffle words. And this guy is making it clear just wafflicious his editorial is.

My anecdotal and therefore unscientific hypothesis was still valid chairlift chatter, though, and others agreed that the trend toward wide skis may be affecting skiers’ knees.

"Anecdotal," "unscientific," "may" ... sure, I agree that the trend toward wide skis may be affecting skier's knees. "May" does a lot of work in that sentence.

 

[cantunamunch]

I fully support anyone who wants to ski narrow skis to do so, btw. I do, however, have an allergy to waffle words. And this guy is making it clear just wafflicious his editorial is.

My anecdotal and therefore unscientific hypothesis was still valid chairlift chatter, though, and others agreed that the trend toward wide skis may be affecting skiers’ knees.

"Anecdotal," "unscientific," "may" ... sure, I agree that the trend toward wide skis may be affecting skier's knees. "May" does a lot of work in that sentence.

What's a person to do? STFU? Come up with the wherewithal for a full-on epidemiological study?

Callouts and relegation to 'individual experience' leave no third option.

My solution was to go to the narrowest ski I could find (70mm) and to avoid hard-snow conditions.

That latter piece seems important, somehow. It's specifically what Susan and I were talking about in the other thread.

Well sure, but it's not a cure. It's rather similar to putting stomach ulcer patients on bland foods. Which we did ...for decades...until one delegitimized researcher ignored the scoffers and came up with antibiotic treatment regimes.

 

[KevinF]

I ski primarily in the East, albeit at one of the snowier New England areas (Stowe).

My daily driver is 88 underfoot which I sometimes think is narrow for Stowe. If the ungroomed terrain is going to be unskiable (thin cover, icy), I’ll bring out the skinny carvers. Real powder days bring out the Patrons (115 underfoot).

I’m 47. Knees are never sore. I ride my bike a couple thousand miles each summer, hike a bunch, work out... maybe I’m young? Lucky? Strong legs help? I try to ski as little truly stupid hard snow as possible. I also ski as many bumps as possible. Bumps are another thing blamed for knee issues. Again, no problems.

I know leg then nothing about knee anatomy, but I generally have trouble blaming a single factor (wide skis) for a complex problem (knee pain).

 

[cantunamunch]

Imaybe I’m young? .

Err, you are.

 

[François Pugh]

My widest ski is 68 mm; I ski in the east on hard snow.
I will be renting wide skis for skiing deep snow over Christmas holidays.
I advise narrow skis for skiing on hard snow, but seldom is my advice heeded.

 

[cantunamunch]

My widest ski is 68 mm; I ski in the east on hard snow.

Have you looked around for a pair of the Elans or Antons yet?

 

[François Pugh]

Have you looked around for a pair of the Elans or Antons yet?

No; new skis are not in the budget. I'm pretty happy with the Fischer WC SC. Just need a good GS ski to go with it.

 

[SSSdave]

Although some may suspect any rec mostly weekend skier mainly skiing moguls most of their adult winters and carrying double average weights each summer on a few backpacking trips might be pushing boundaries of what is healthy for knees, legs, back, and joints long term. Especially by time they reach official social security retirement age. But here I am still doing such. Along the way I have had some brief knee problems. The one knee problem I can blame on skiing was when I fell in steeps 2 or 3 decades ago with a long slide and some cartilage came loose. Also have had a few minor lateral collateral ligament strains but never while skiing. And at my age, the skeleton isn't well throughout as some of my finger knuckles have arthritis bumps.

Thus am saying although even modest activity like running on hard urban streets or skiing hard snow may indeed damage knees of some people due to their specific physical structures, such may not be universally so across a broad range of people. Part of my own healthy condition is in part likely the result of being active so most of my life, diet, and also much likely genetics.

Skis? Outside of fresh snow days when I will be on a couple other wider skis, I at 5'6" 137# am on a 168cm long 65mm waist Dynastar Twister mogul ski.

 

[cantunamunch]

No; new skis are not in the budget. I'm pretty happy with the Fischer WC SC. Just need a good GS ski to go with it.

Of all the posters on this forum, I expected you would have jumped onto the 35m FIS skis when they were made non-compliant. I suppose there's still time and a few remnant pairs? @ScotsSkier did a feature post on it some time ago.

 

[ScotsSkier]

Of all the posters on this forum, I expected you would have jumped onto the 35m FIS skis when they were made non-compliant. I suppose there's still time and a few remnant pairs? @ScotsSkier did a feature post on it some time ago.

Yup, still plenty of them around! And still some hopeful people trying to get a couple of hundred for them!!!! But lots at sensible prices, most without bindings... and would be HUGE game changer compared to Francois's famous Castle SG!!!