Is there any value in doing exercises that simulate ski movements in a non-ski setting?

[Rich_Ease_3051]

Examples:

Jonny Moseley



Tom Gellie

 

[Rod9301]

Lifting, mobility and stretching are beneficial

 

[LuliTheYounger]

No, Olympians just do it because they have too much time in their day.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

No, Olympians just do it because they have too much time in their day.

How about for normies?

There might be some success/selection bias with Olympians. For example, skiing at the top level would wear out tendons and ligaments for normal people. But the creme de la creme might be genetic freaks who have more resilient ligaments and tendons, which makes them reach the apex of the sport.

Anyway, to clarify, I didn't post Jonny's video specifically asking about him, an Olympian, finding ski movements useful for off-season exercise. I just posted the video as an example of a ski movement done as an exercise.

Gellie is a youtube trainer geared towards normie skiers and he does a lot of these ski-movements-as-exercises.

Are these types of exercises helpful for improving strength and flexibility when it's time to ski? Or will they just wear out tendons and ligaments or cause some other problem? Anybody do them? Or do you stick to traditional lifting, mobility and stretching exercises?

For normal people.

 

[François Pugh]

It's complicated.
For sure off-snow exercise is of benefit. Doing squats in the off-season does help.
However, it is over-rated - machines that claim to simulate skiing don't do a good enough job at it to justify their cost.
The key is where is the point of diminishing returns. If you are already doing 20 hours a week of martial arts training, then I wouldn't bother. If all you do is sit at home and watch TV then, yes, set up a program.

 

[Dave Marshak]

Recreational skiing doesn't require any specific training. Effective ski movements are simple and mostly just flexing, extending and rotating. The hard movements are the random movemets you do to recover balance. You need core strength and flexibility for that, and that's what you should train.
Don't compare yourself to Jonny Moseley or any other proffessional athlete. They can spend as much time training as I do at my job. If you haven't done enough gym time to establish core stability and flexibility none of those ski specific things are helpful, and maybe they're even harmful.

dm

 

[Andy Mink]

I can already fall down in other settings. No additional training needed.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

Recreational skiing doesn't require any specific training. Effective ski movements are simple and mostly just flexing, extending and rotating. The hard movements are the random movemets you do to recover balance. You need core strength and flexibility for that, and that's what you should train.
Don't compare yourself to Jonny Moseley or any other proffessional athlete. They can spend as much time training as I do at my job. If you haven't done enough gym time to establish core stability and flexibility none of those ski specific things are helpful, and maybe they're even harmful.

dm

How about this hypothetical: recreational skier skis only 7 days a year, which is about average for the typical skier. He skis only one week at a time per year for 7 straight days. His favourite spot in the mountain is moguls.

Compare his injury potential if he only does typical exercises (jogging, swimming, maybe some weight lifting) vs typical exercises PLUS dry mogul exercises like Jonny does in the video. Maybe he does the dry mogul exercise once a week, which would be 51 times a year.

Surely, by the time he's on the mountain, the muscle memory he develops doing some dry mogul exercises will help him some when he's doing the real thing? At least get his thighs used to the lactic build up when he does the mogul run several times a day during the course of that ski holiday week?

 

[Yepow]

... I think Jonny Moseley's workout is a poor example on the continuum of "ski specific" vs "general conditioning" exercise. As I said on another thread, that's super hardcore, and has a big risk of injury if you screw it up. I think Moseley benefited (probably) from this exercise because he had the fundamental skills SO dialed in over 20 years, he had the tendon/muscle/proprioception to handle this exercise well, and he was mining for the smallest of edges. It is too dangerous, relative to the ski/mogul specificity of it, to be worth recommending to any weekend warrior, IMO.

This is not to say that I think one can't benefit from more ski specific offseason workouts (I am going to try hard this year!) Just that the Moseley demo is not a good example to recommend to most people, imo. It's kind of like the "Stockli AX or SX?" question and the answer "if you are asking the question, the answer is AX" -- you already know if you need to take on Moseley pit digging, and otherwise, find something less extreme and slightly less specific, which will still give you 90% of the benefit with 10% of the risk of injury.

 

[martyg]

I wouldn't focus on ski related movements. I would focus on your weak links that are limiting performance. First however, you need a vision of where you want to be, and an objective measure of where you are. However without professional evaluation, you are in a place were you don;'t know what you don't know.

 

[martyg]

Or will they just wear out tendons and ligaments or cause some other problem? A

That is not a thing. Like with any training program - as opposed to gathering shit on Google and executing - it is a matter of progressive loading, and creating the optimal environment for cell division (also known as recovery).

Peer reviewed scientific journals pretty much isolate the vast majority of injuries being caused by lack of recovery, or applying load in the form of intensity or duration too quickly in the progression.

 

[Dave Marshak]

How about this hypothetical: recreational skier skis only 7 days a year, which is about average for the typical skier. He skis only one week at a time per year for 7 straight days. His favourite spot in the mountain is moguls.

Compare his injury potential if he only does typical exercises (jogging, swimming, maybe some weight lifting) vs typical exercises PLUS dry mogul exercises like Jonny does in the video. Maybe he does the dry mogul exercise once a week, which would be 51 times a year.

Unless your hypothetical skier has first established a high level of core strenth and flexibility, he won't be able to do Jonny Moseley's work out. If you have a weak core, you may be able to do the movements, but you'll do them in some dysfunctional way where the major muscles require too much help from some combination of other muscles. That's synergistic dominance, and it eventually leads to problems. That's also why I have a sore back after too many moguls, I've never done enough gym time to get to a place where I would benefit from Moseley's excerise.
FWIW I've never met a 7 day a year skier who could ski moguls., or even one who could ski blue groomers 7 straight days.

dm

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

FWIW I've never met a 7 day a year skier who could ski moguls., or even one who could ski blue groomers 7 straight days.

dm

Yeah I forgot to mention the hypothetical guy is also a masochist.

 

[Wilhelmson]

The Moseley video is fun to watch but I wonder how often he really does that.

on long hikes I like to jog down the hill and pretend I am skiing.

 

[Jilly]

I can't see a 7 day/year skier doing moguls for the whole time. But interesting discussion...

I like inline skating off season. Builds the legs muscles. Weight training does the core stuff.

 

[dbostedo]

I can't see a 7 day/year skier doing moguls for the whole time.

I can think of one scenario... older former comp mogul skier who now lives in a warm weather state and only gets out to the mountains for 1 week a year without the fam. Maybe then they'd spend the whole time in moguls. Maybe.

 

[raytseng]

Obviously there's value, but as mentioned it is all hypothetical and probably doesn't happen because it isn't the highest or best use of a person's time-whether it is training time or leisure time or a combo of both. The venn diagram of a person who is so focused on mogul skiing that they do such a highly specific exercise or training-but conversely they only can ski 1 week or 1 day; those circles don't line up.

It is like asking is there value to cut you lawn with scissors and a ruler. This will ensure a perfectly manicured lawn, but nobody is doing that in real life.

EDIT:
In other relevant news on dedication: Perhaps if you are dedicated enough, and you have no better option or better use for your time, where there is a will there is a way.
See below:

Ghanaian educator who taught MS Word on a chalkboard reflects on the year since his story went viral – Middle East & Africa News Center

news.microsoft.com

So I will eat my words. If you are an aspiring athlete from Africa or a place with no snow and want to go to the Winter Olympics perhaps the dryland simulation is the best/only option you have- just like learning microsoft word via a chalkboard. (I'm talking about true local representatives; not just a rich privileged 1st worlder with some loose affiliation that is buying their way to the olympics party to gain clout);

 

[Yepow]

It is like asking is there value to cut you lawn with scissors and a ruler. This will ensure a perfectly manicured lawn, but nobody is doing that in real life.

Funny you use this example, a neighbor of my mom's I once I swear I saw using scissors on his lawn. Our nickname for him is "Immaculo"

 

[Jilly]

So I will eat my words. If you are an aspiring athlete from Africa or a place with no snow and want to go to the Winter Olympics perhaps the dryland simulation is the best/only option you have- just like learning microsoft word via a chalkboard. (I'm talking about true local representatives; not just a rich privileged 1st worlder with some loose affiliation that is buying their way to the olympics party to gain clout);

Jamaican bobsled team!

 

[Henry]

Are these [ski specific] types of exercises helpful for improving strength and flexibility when it's time to ski? Or will they just wear out tendons and ligaments or cause some other problem? Anybody do them? Or do you stick to traditional lifting, mobility and stretching exercises?

If one has a good routine of a wide variety of ski specific exercises and does them frequently and regularly then, yep, gott'a help. For me, it's general weight training that includes core and legs and everything else, yoga, and cardio. Body parts mainly deteriorate from lack of use or get damaged from misuse. Work it, don't break it.