Utah LCC Gondola

[James]

It’s a freakin’ dead end road. Just ban cars and figure it out. You could do it tmrw and force people onto buses unless you’re staying at the hotels. Or include them and have shuttles.
Resistance to mass transit will just prolong the agony. The problem with a gondola is it has a base station.

One option for parking/gondola -
(Kidding)

VW plant in Bratislava.

Unique aerial cable car in Bratislava Volkswagen plant marks 10th anniversary

The ten year anniversary of a unique aerial cable car, constructed specifically for the Volkswagen Slovakia (VW SK) car manufacturing plant in Bratislava, was celebrated on November 27. This one-of-a-kind aerial lift, which transports cars between the assembly hall and the test track, dominates...

spectator.sme.sk

 

[Wasatchman]

It’s a freakin’ dead end road. Just ban cars and figure it out. You could do it tmrw and force people onto buses unless you’re staying at the hotels. Or include them and have shuttles.
Resistance to mass transit will just prolong the agony. The problem with a gondola is it has a base station.

One option for parking/gondola -
(Kidding)
View attachment 137001
VW plant in Bratislava.

Unique aerial cable car in Bratislava Volkswagen plant marks 10th anniversary

The ten year anniversary of a unique aerial cable car, constructed specifically for the Volkswagen Slovakia (VW SK) car manufacturing plant in Bratislava, was celebrated on November 27. This one-of-a-kind aerial lift, which transports cars between the assembly hall and the test track, dominates...

spectator.sme.sk

Yes, I wrote that could have been an option to try before doing these more drastic options in a previous post. I completely agree with you. I'm really against the gondola option. The base station location will still be a traffic nightmare and importantly I fear it will completely ruin the canyon aesthetic.

 

[Daniel]

1) The bus lane doesn't help much when they do avy control.
2) LCC and BCC can be very crowded now, with the current road. They are now charging for parking at Solitude to encourage carpooling so I'm thinking that there are already too many cars/skiers at the top?
3) I'm thinking that a couple terrain expansions should be part of increasing the number of skiers.

1) It would if snowsheds were constructed where several of the most avalanche-prone paths in the canyon intersect the highway. LCC is the most avalanche-prone road in the country (BCC is pretty close behind) and snowsheds have been proposed as a remedy to mitigate many of the road closures and delayed openings that plague the canyon. https://littlecottonwoodeis.udot.ut...heets_Avalanche_Mitigation_11_20_2020_FIN.pdf
2) Yes, this coming season will be the third consecutive year Solitude has charged for parking at its upper and lower bases. They even added a couple hundred new parking spots the year they started charging to park at the resort. They've raised either the daily or seasonal cost to park there every year since fee implementation and still the car parks at Solitude fill up remarkably fast on a significant number of days during the season. This coming season, Alta will be charging a fee to park there on weekends and holiday periods. Snowbird has expanded its paid reserved parking program ($25 per day) and preferred parking pass ($699 per year) for the upcoming season. Three of the four CC resorts operate multiple free 15-passenger UTA shuttles (Alta doesn't participate in the program) every day of the season for employees so as to remove vehicles from the canyon roads. All four resorts offer ride-sharing apps for employees and canyon users. Many people have seasonal lockers at the resorts and hitchhike up and down the canyons, removing vehicles from the congestion. Nonetheless, roads in both canyons are frequently bumper to bumper for hours at a time.
3) Over the past several decades, all four CC resorts have proposed terrain expansions and gone through the permitting process, only to be almost always denied by the Forest Service. Work is currently underway at two new "resorts": one will be private and located near Morgan, UT and the other will be small, in terms of terrain, and located on the Heber City side of Deer Valley. The old Gorgoza ski area in Parleys Canyon, which sat idle for an eternity save for a few years as a tubing park, reopened as Woodward Park City and appears to be quite a popular destination with the park skier/rider crowd.

 

[Ken_R]

I think its cheaper and easier to make another ski area

Joking aside the Gondi looks awesome but the Bus lane would be more feasible me thinks and with less impact. Whatever they do they better make it quick.

 

[Bill Miles]

They obviously should combine a bus and a gondola...

 

[Wasatchman]

Over the past several decades, all four CC resorts have proposed terrain expansions and gone through the permitting process, only to be almost always denied by the Forest Service.

Even though I'm an avid skier, I'm one of those that opposes much further expansion of lift served skiing in the Cottonwoods. The environmental impact and eyesore of lift infrastructure is not fair to those that do not ski, in my view, and Brighton and Snowbird have already undergone meaningful terrain expansion already from their original footprint.

Interestingly, many might be surprised to know that a strong contingent of skiers actually oppose further lift served expansion in the Cottonwoods to preserve the more of the Backcountry ski experience that is exploding in popularity beyond the factors I already noted above.

So there is a healthy contingent that opposes further Cottonwoods expansion both within the ski community as well as environmental types outside the ski community.

 

[Wasatchman]

If one of those business wanted to pivot and sell itself as a more exclusive experience with restrictions to prevent crowding, they'd likely get both a lot of flack, and a lot of applause, from different groups of people. I'd think that would be very interesting to see.

I think the majority of locals would rejoice if AltaBird and Jackson got off Ikon but raised season pass prices meaningfully. But point taken on the revenue. It's not so much lift tickets but tourists buy way more ancillary services like lessons, lodging, and food. Nonetheless I'm thinking AltaBird and Jackson are famous enough to draw in hordes of tourists without Ikon. We'll never know until someone tries it though. And Ikon could have a big stick that says don't even think about trying it alone anymore because if you leave you're never getting back on Ikon. I also wonder if Taos, Jackson, and AltaBird could form an alliance to form their own "Legendary " pass product.

 

[KingGrump]

I also wonder if Taos, Jackson, and AltaBird could form an alliance to form their own "Legendary " pass product.

Unlike the others, Taos actually need more skier days. Not less.

 

[New2]

I wonder if they'll ever get to build a good road up American Fork Canyon/Mary Ellen. I seem to remember that Utah County explicitly refused to participate in this round of planning, so it's not on the table this time around.

2. MORE SKI RESORTS IN UTAH!

I don't disagree. But additional ski areas are going to compete primarily with Snowbasin, PCMR, and Deer Valley... there just isn't any feasible path to constructing new high-elevation areas close to the city + airport. Some of the Altabird loyalists might have moved to Solitude, sure, with the cheap Ikon passes. But very few of them would be willing to switch over to a hypothetical new hill.

 

[HardDaysNight]

1. Dump IKON and jack up season pass prices. problem solved. I'd gladly pay a couple thousand more to have the Alta of 5 or 6 seasons ago back

2. MORE SKI RESORTS IN UTAH!

3. Gondola

This!!!
The degree to which skiing in Utah, not limited to LCC, has been destroyed in the last decade really is amazing. So grateful I got to experience it at its best.

 

[Jwrags]

Out of complete ignorance I ask this question. Ignore zoning and permitting for a minute, where could new resorts be added that have enough snow? Having driven through Utah in the winter it is mostly a desert area with concentrated snow in what appears to be a pretty localized area of the Wasatch near SLC. The Wasatch is pretty narrow East to West, unlike the Rockies in Colorado.

 

[KingGrump]

Out of complete ignorance I ask this question. Ignore zoning and permitting for a minute, where could new resorts be added that have enough snow?

Mayflower. That is next big thing.

 

[Jwrags]

Mayflower. That is next big thing.

I’ll be surprised if they ever have skiing over there. When we went by in January it was pretty much bare. Maybe they can make snow…oh, wait, there is no water

 

[KingGrump]

I’ll be surprised if they ever have skiing over there. When we went by in January it was pretty much bare. Maybe they can make snow…oh, wait, there is no water

It's not really real. That is nothing more than a real estate play and milking the US government.

 

[DanoT]

At Mount Cain on Vancouver Island access is via one lane logging road with "up" traffic dawn to noon and "down" traffic noon to dark. Something sort of similar to this could work at LCC but I prefer a ban on private vehicles with bus traffic only....Requires no new road construction, just more buses.

Since there are private dwellings in LCC a modification of above with permitted private vehicles allowed at certain times and certain directions along with the buses might work best.

 

[Daniel]

This!!!
The degree to which skiing in Utah, not limited to LCC, has been destroyed in the last decade really is amazing. So grateful I got to experience it at its best.

Ditto. You speak the truth!

 

[JoeSchmoe]

Out of complete ignorance I ask this question. Ignore zoning and permitting for a minute, where could new resorts be added that have enough snow?

The Oquirrh mountains and other ranges southwest of the city could support skiing.

 

[Jim McDonald]

I recall seeing something about a potential large ski area development just west of SLC a few years ago; don't know if anything ever came of it.

 

[New2]

Out of complete ignorance I ask this question. Ignore zoning and permitting for a minute, where could new resorts be added that have enough snow? Having driven through Utah in the winter it is mostly a desert area with concentrated snow in what appears to be a pretty localized area of the Wasatch near SLC. The Wasatch is pretty narrow East to West, unlike the Rockies in Colorado.

The only spots that could really compete at the level of Snowbird and Alta (snowfall, snow preservation, size, and terrain quality) are in federally-designated wilderness areas. The Wasatch core could theoretically support 6 additional areas more or less competitive with Solitude... one at the top of Millcreek Canyon, two west of Solitude, one north of Brighton, one west of Snowbird, and one between Alta and Brighton/Solitude. All but Millcreek would add congestion to the already-burdened LCC and BCC roads. All receive significant summer recreation, and all but Millcreek are already at least semi-popular sidecountry.

To the west, the Oquirrh Mountains probably represent the best opportunity to really get something permitted. It's a very steep range, so there's limited novice/intermediate terrain available and real estate development poses extra challenges, but the right developments there could definitely lure some of the advanced skiers from the Wasatch.

To the north, theoretically there could be a string of resorts primarily facing east or west from I-80 all the way up to Nordic Valley and beyond. The two best spots are probably Snowbasin and Wasatch Peaks Ranch, but there's plenty of room for more. PowMow has tons of terrain dedicated to catskiing, and on beyond that there's a lot more similar terrain.

To the south, there's some very promising terrain just outside Provo, the old Heritage Mountain/Seven Peaks proposal. And up American Fork canyon there's a a ton of terrain with lots of potential south and east of Snowbird. But no good access to the area.

So yeah, there is theoretically room for a whole lot more ski terrain in the Salt Lake area. Realistically, I think one or two new ski areas in the Oquirrhs and some sort of Nordic Valley expansion are possible.

 

[Jwrags]

The Oquirrh Mountains seem like a very interesting proposition. After @JoeSchmoe mentioned them yesterday I looked them up and did some research. It looks as if they generally get plenty of snow, with some areas getting a lot of lake effect. Apparently someone went tried to start up a ski area there 20+ years ago but it got shut down by the mining people, whose land they had to cross for access. The nice thing about developing there is it would draw traffic/development to the opposite side of the valley from the Cottonwoods.

Further development in either Cottonwood seems doomed from the start because of the lack of access.