Looking at E-bikes

[skibob]

The other thing about an eBike is you do not have to turn on the assist to ride if you want a real workout. I'd argue that climbing hills or even the flats pedaling a 55 lbs bike without or even in Eco mode does plenty for muscle workout and heart rate.

Plus speed is your friend and way more fun. You can go twice as far and see more in the same time with less impact, decent workout & shuttle to the trail head vs riding the bike. Afterwards you are not as trashed if you chose. Or you might ride on days you aren't feeling it and just get out with more assist for a casual leg stretch.

An avid gravel biking couple used to give me grieve, but went out and got two Pivot eShuttles which are in fairly light by comparison. They are much easier to schlep around than my Rail 5 beast, have programmable power settings & they love the full suspension for gravel riding, rough roads & single track. No more wrists, butt and lower back soreness.

They say in the first minute you ride an eBike, you'll want one. Be sure to look past the ones you test drive and check your priority boxes. If I was looking to trade mine, I'd take a hard look at the Trek Fuel EXe for it's versatility.

Something like the Trek Powerfly FS might be worth a look for more of a crosscountry/gravel option.

My bike (Cannondale Synapse Neo) is only 36lbs. But I often forget to turn on the assist until I get into a hill.

For me the best thing about e-assist is bonk insurance. Hitting the limits of your endurance isn't just a miserable experience, it is bad for you. "No Pain, No Gain" is the dumbest thing ever.

 

[skibob]

Radpower bikes are popular entry level bikes. I personally much prefer mid-drive over hub motor. And they are heavy.

RadCity Electric City Bikes

RadCity electric bikes are built for commuting, errands, social engagements, and adventures. Customize your ebike with racks, baskets, and bags.

www.radpowerbikes.com

 

[SlideWright]

My bike (Cannondale Synapse Neo) is only 36lbs. But I often forget to turn on the assist until I get into a hill.

For me the best thing about e-assist is bonk insurance. Hitting the limits of your endurance isn't just a miserable experience, it is bad for you. "No Pain, No Gain" is the dumbest thing ever.

Absolutely. Keeping some battery in reserve to get home is part of the mix. Along with not getting bogged down in 'battery anxiety' like in EVs because you know the limits and ranges of the different settings and consumption.

 

[cantunamunch]

Radpower bikes are popular entry level bikes. I personally much prefer mid-drive over hub motor. And they are heavy.

RadCity Electric City Bikes

RadCity electric bikes are built for commuting, errands, social engagements, and adventures. Customize your ebike with racks, baskets, and bags.

www.radpowerbikes.com

My neighbor had one. Basically unrideable when the battery runs out

 

[cantunamunch]

Ok so first you probably mean pedal assist not really ebike. Pedal assist is like your typical bicycle with additional power when you're pedaling.

This is the same bike mostly that I have but with pedal assist. Up to 38mm tires so good for pavement and our typical gravel roads but the fresh gravel roads are a bit sketch on 38s even.

Domane+ AL 5 - Trek Bikes (CA)

Discover your next great ride with 36145_2023. See the bike and visit your local Trek retailer. Shop now!

www.trekbikes.com

Sketch on 38s? Dare I ask which tire and what pressure?

Running roadie pressures on gravel is the biggest factor in tire size bloat. IMOYMMVAAT

 

[tothetrail]

If you want to be able to do regular mountain bike trails, you really need a real pedal assist bike, not like the Rad bikes. I got my first e-bike in 2017, a Specialized Turbo Levo. I needed something I could use to keep up with two friends who were training for the Leadville 100. It was perfect, and put me in the best shape of my life.

I sold it in 2020, wanted a new one with a bigger battery. We went on a 50 mile ride in Sedona and I came up 1/2 mile short on battery, I got a new Turbo Levo and while it took me some time to get used to it, I love it also. We have some family members and friends with Rad bikes, and on steep inclines, their bikes just don't make it and they have to walk. The gearing may be setup much more for flat riding. or just lack of power. Not sure what models they have. And maybe it's different with newer bikes.

The Turbo Levos have gone way down in price in the last year, and I've seen them for less than the price I paid in 2017. I have never tried another brand, and there are way more to choose from now. But I love my Specialized! I have a regular Niner hardtail bike, but I wouldn't get a hardtail e-bike. The full suspension handles the downhill and bumps so nicely, and the weight penalty is so small.

 

[cantunamunch]

I don't think OP is going to ride proper XC trails but there are some NICE allroad tires in the 2.1-2.3 range that would be ultra safe on gravel roads with water features

Honestly if I was anywhere near OP, an XC softail would be just my ticket for the snowmobile trail network. But that's me

 

[scott43]

Sketch on 38s? Dare I ask which tire and what pressure?

Running roadie pressures on gravel is the biggest factor in tire size bloat. IMOYMMVAAT

To be fair I was using 35s at 50psi and it felt pretty sketch. So I figure for the average rider it would be scary. It's also geometry to some degree as well. The hard pack gravel roads are fine but the loose dump they put down from time to time is horrendous to ride on. 2.4 MTB tires would be preferable!!

 

[Yo Momma]

@tothetrail ...Wifey and I have now put hundreds of miles on our ebikes in Northern Vermont on rail trails, and class 4 country roads. Actually we both just broke 1000 miles.... Our bikes were $1500 a piece on sale from Aventon (Aventure model). I do our bike work and upgrades so no shop has been needed yet. We bought extra batteries that were on sale when we bought the bikes. I never thought I'd want 4" tires and I was confused as to why anyone would want "Fat" tires. Now... I wouldn't dream of getting an ebike for our riding w/ smaller than 4" tires. The 4" tires give much more stability at the speeds you can maintain and reach, esp on gravel and uneven surfaces.

We did lots of little upgrades to make them more durable like 203 mm Shimano ICE tech front rotors and top of the line ceramic pads, ghetto brake bleed, seat upgrade - Rx seats, climbing bars - to vary position rather than actual climbing, high end pedals and half toe clips for use w/ any shoes as we sometime ride to the grocery store, restaurants and breweries, enhanced lighting systems for night riding, heavy duty pannier packs to hold extra batteries and keep them safe from banging against the bike frame while packed, Ergon GP-1 bike grips, basically upgrades that you can't get on a "'factory" bike at any price.

We set them up for long distance because these things HAUL.... wgt and speed. Wifey and I get an amazing workout when riding 60 miles even at a mid level assist and it won't kill your knees. Wifey is ex-ballet so her knees are shot but she hops on her Aventure everyday during summer w/o issue. I've even started commuting to work on it day and night. We've barely touched our pedal bikes since the purchase bec at 62 the ups and downs around here just don't allow for the long distance workouts my body now prefers.

Rare now but (see last pic), if I want technical riding i go to one of my many pedal bikes and do shorter distances. With our ebikes on rail trails and country gravel roads the Aventon Aventure is the best bang for the buck w/ the best most consistent reviews that I found during my research.

If you're actually mtn biking.... intense single track, etc.... look elsewhere to one of the many nice options available on the market but I switched all my mtn bikes over to gravel and country road as I've had too many friends at my age trying to keep up and end up breaking bones and tearing ligaments trying to prove they've still got it! That's a Young persons game! LOL

 

[cantunamunch]

To be fair I was using 35s at 50psi and it felt pretty sketch.
So I figure for the average rider it would be scary. It's also geometry to some degree as well. The hard pack gravel roads are fine but the loose dump they put down from time to time is horrendous to ride on. 2.4 MTB tires would be preferable!!

Gotcha. Herself ran Schwalbe G-Ones in 35 at 40 psi and felt .. not great, even with zero handlebar drop.

I don't see OP going anywhere near roadie or XC position, not with the hip and knee. If it wasn't for the hip and knee...graveling her old MTB might be interesting.

 

[SlideWright]

To be fair I was using 35s at 50psi and it felt pretty sketch. So I figure for the average rider it would be scary. It's also geometry to some degree as well. The hard pack gravel roads are fine but the loose dump they put down from time to time is horrendous to ride on. 2.4 MTB tires would be preferable!!

For my wife's Allante +7, I swapped out the Schwabe G-One tires for wider, tubeless Conti Cross Kings . The handlebars were 600mm and just got swapped for Salsa Rustler Risers cut to 750mm. HUDGE difference.

 

[VickieH]

@Jilly -- I started looking at e-bikes in November. From your first post, it sounds as if you're not really looking for a mountain bike and not a road bike, but more of a hybrid, which are sometimes referred to as "fitness" bikes.

Things to consider:

Bike weight -- will you be lifting it onto a rack or into a vehicle or carrying it up stairs? Or just riding out of the garage and onto a path?

Pedal assistance only or also throttle?

Cadence vs Torque sensor -- this has to do with how the pedal assistance kicks in. Torque sensor gives a more natural bike riding feel to the assistance.

Hub drive vs mid-drive -- Mid-drive gives a more natural feel to the ride. Hub drive felt like I was dragging 40 pounds along behind me. (A 60-pound mid-drive Trek bike was easier to pedal with no assistance than a 40-pound hub-drive Trek. This tells me that with a hub drive, I will be using more pedal assistance than I would with a mid-drive). My experience -- mid-drive is more expensive and not as common as hub drive.

Power of motor -- I have been told that the torque of the motor is the most important number to compare. Of 2 comparable motors, the one with the greater torque is going to pull my butt up a hill easier.

Maintenance and customer support -- I've been looking mostly at Trek and Specialized. They'll still be in business 2 years from now and probably have parts and service available.


With just those 6 things, I've had to start compromising already since I'm not willing to spend $7000 on my first e-bike. I'll probably get a cheaper hub-driven bike and see how the industry evolves over the next year or two.

 

[geepers]

What bike is this? Most of the major brand's ebikes have apps that can adjust the amount of power provided for each of the power settings. If adjusted properly your wife should be able to get a solid workout.

Wife has long covid so a very low energy 'workout' suits her situation just fine.

Beside, I ain't adjusting anything to do with power settings. Changing seat height causes enough angst as it is....

 

[Jilly]

Good questions, and I need to answer those for my sake.

No to MTB trails. And No to racks. I have a Buick Encore with roof racks and no trailer hitch. I'm too short for the roof racks. I'll probably just ride it out the door.

 

[trailtrimmer]

Some interesting points here:​

Why electric bikes actually give more exercise than pedal bikes​

Then you look at the study they linked to and find that the lead article is fabrication.

Metabolic and Cardiovascular Responses to a Simulated... : Translational Journal of the American College of Sports Medicine

perceived exertion (RPE) between a regular bike and an e-bike at two different assist levels during a 3-mile ride. During the same day and in randomized order, male (n = 16) and female (n = 14) participants (19–61 yr) completed three outdoor 3-mile bike rides, simulating a typical commute, at...

journals.lww.com

Virtually all the data shows more energy needed to move the conventional bike. The benefits of assist only come into play by making it feel easier and making it so people don't think they are working as hard, which they are indeed not. From the data, you would have to ride at least 25% longer to get the calorie burn and they are likely to never push into the same heart rate zone with an assist bike.

Of course, they subjected participants to riding this POS, I can't blame them for choosing the ebike vs this dumpster fire.

That being said, its better than sitting around and doing nothing. And I absolutely love them for commuting or errands as you can arrive without being sweaty and you can haul a little cargo if you are properly outfitted. Far better than taking a car for short trips. But for straight up health, a conventional bike will do you more good in a shorter amount of time if thats the goal.

 

[SlideWright]

That being said, its better than sitting around and doing nothing. And I absolutely love them for commuting or errands as you can arrive without being sweaty and you can haul a little cargo if you are properly outfitted. Far better than taking a car for short trips. But for straight up health, a conventional bike will do you more good in a shorter amount of time if thats the goal.

It took a while to realize you need to dress differently for a little less sweat and maybe keep warmer layers on due to higher speeds and wind vs the work exerted than typical bicycling.

 

[skibob]

@Jilly -- I started looking at e-bikes in November. From your first post, it sounds as if you're not really looking for a mountain bike and not a road bike, but more of a hybrid, which are sometimes referred to as "fitness" bikes.

Things to consider:

Bike weight -- will you be lifting it onto a rack or into a vehicle or carrying it up stairs? Or just riding out of the garage and onto a path?

Pedal assistance only or also throttle?

Cadence vs Torque sensor -- this has to do with how the pedal assistance kicks in. Torque sensor gives a more natural bike riding feel to the assistance.

Hub drive vs mid-drive -- Mid-drive gives a more natural feel to the ride. Hub drive felt like I was dragging 40 pounds along behind me. (A 60-pound mid-drive Trek bike was easier to pedal with no assistance than a 40-pound hub-drive Trek. This tells me that with a hub drive, I will be using more pedal assistance than I would with a mid-drive). My experience -- mid-drive is more expensive and not as common as hub drive.

Power of motor -- I have been told that the torque of the motor is the most important number to compare. Of 2 comparable motors, the one with the greater torque is going to pull my butt up a hill easier.

Maintenance and customer support -- I've been looking mostly at Trek and Specialized. They'll still be in business 2 years from now and probably have parts and service available.


With just those 6 things, I've had to start compromising already since I'm not willing to spend $7000 on my first e-bike. I'll probably get a cheaper hub-driven bike and see how the industry evolves over the next year or two.

About as good of an overview as I have read^^^.

One thought on throttle: I am generally opposed. But my wife makes the point that she uses it for green light starts on busy streets and uphill starts. If that sounds appealing to you, well, then, it probably is.

 

[SlideWright]

Good questions, and I need to answer those for my sake.

No to MTB trails. And No to racks. I have a Buick Encore with roof racks and no trailer hitch. I'm too short for the roof racks. I'll probably just ride it out the door.

If you can demo bikes on your likely surfaces, you could compare how a front suspension gravel, hybrid or full suspension (usually MTB, AFAIK) bike feels to you....then there's the question of best suspension travel for you. (Trying to help with avoiding woulda, coulda, shouldas like we are now.)

 

[Yo Momma]

Wifey and I have found that our heavy ebikes easily fit on an appropriate 150 lbs capacity "Fat Tire" rack. We have all types of racks for our different bikes. Now that we use trailer hitch racks, the others just sit gathering dust. The ease of trailer hitch racks makes the rest in our collection obsolete, even for our regular bikes. Wifey is small but can mount our bikes w/o issue using leverage, one wheel at a time.

I do my own trailer hitch mounts w/ etrailer.com as we also tow our boat. Any shop can easily do a trailer hitch mount for you. It's a super easy job as just about all vehicles are set up w/ predrilled and tapped receiver holes in the frame from the factory. Ours are Toyota Highlander and Rav4... just wash the back undercarriage, access and clean the predrilled frame threads ( lube and use a tap screw or similar bolt), jack the trailer hitch into place, line it up, never-seize the bolts, screw it all in, torque tight and good to go. If you want the trailer lights connector... that's a story for another thread but also super easy 30-45 min job if you're careful and handy. All the instructional videos for each vehicle are on etrailer.com

Currently for our ebikes we use this one from Amazon @ $129 - $189 w/o issue:

Arksen 2" Hitch Mounted Rack Smart Tilting 2-Bike Platform Style Carrier for Standard, Fat Tire, and Electric Bicycles -150 lbs Heavy Weight Capacity​

One more thing.... If you purchase a "Heavy" ebike, IMMEDIATELY upgrade your front brake rotor to some top of the line brand/model and all your pads (front and back) to the best ceramic and/or metal combo pads you can find. Be sure to re-adj your brakes and either bleed them yourself or have a shop do it.... Just TRUST ME on this one! Factory Brake setups on Heavy ebikes have been a huge problem for many that don't understand the weights they are managing. You absolutely need top of the line pads and front rotors. Rear rotor, not as critical....

Pics are from some of our rides, upgrades and antique roadbike rebuilds I did and converted to gravel. Last pic is one of our night rides. Fun stuff and see LOTS of wildlife........ sometimes too much! It's kinda strange seeing eyes looking back at you as you approach at speed. Yes... bear spray is at the ready.....

 

[Jilly]

I was looking at some hitch mounted racks at our local Sportsman show last weekend. That got me thinking along with a company displaying e-bikes.