MEN'S World Cup 2021-2022

[S.H.]

Outraged? Way off. Try bemused.

Thought the idea of competency criteria was to minimize the number of Eddie the Eagles and Eric The Eels. They may add some character and comedy to the proceedings however they tend to distract from the performance of the serious athletes.

Not sure why the rich and bored can't do what they normally do - buy themselves a seat in Formula 1.

Not your outrage.

The general outrage from others, like Nyman and the writer of the quoted article

 

[4ster]

Odermatt !

 

[James]

Twas a joke.
Of course it was a podium ski. But it is so nice to remind @James how good this ski are.

Those tips are so incredible, Ryding didn’t use them! He’s no Sponge Bob Square Pants.

Don’t even get me started on the holes. (The ones all the non race versions put a cover on) Number one question I got the past two weekends on the Fischers- Why are there holes? Answers: Why is there a hole in a donut?; They’re saving money by using less material; It’s eco-friendly! They recycle what they take outl; The holes are for hanging the skis on a peg; They’re for picking them up easily; They’re for face shots in 3 inches of powder; They wanted to get a patent on a hole; They’re for stopping by sticking your pole through into the snow…

I did have a kid in a lesson once on junior Fischers . They had bigger holes, and a standard race basket fits through easily. So I gave her the, “oh those skis are special” spiel. “Let me show you what you can do.” I taught her when going to the loading line on the chairlift to have her poles positioned over the holes. Then when it’s time to stop, just jam them down. Worked great. Dad wasn’t thrilled by this technique.

 

[Tony Storaro]

They’re for stopping by sticking your pole through into the snow…

Now this is something even I didn't think about. Will try this ASAP.

 

[Primoz]

@geepers while I agree these quotas are a bit weird, I actually agree with @S.H. that all the top contenders will be there. The biggest and loudest cry about these quotas is coming from US, which has quota of 6 men. It certainly doesn't sound like much, but realistically, it's more then you actually have competitive skiers to send (unless if we go to exactly same exotic skiers US guys are crying so much about them). I was just talking with friend last time, and Italy has quota of 7, Austria has quota of 9 and so does France and Norway, while Switzerland is on better side with 11. But then if you look at WCSL, Austria has 20 guys in top 100, Switzerland 14, Italy 13, France 11.... and USA? Whole six.... oops that was data from last week, which changed with latest one (23.1.2022), so since yesterday, there's 8. 21, 23, 37, 62, 89, 90, 97, 98. This also means probably data for other countries are different, but I'm not going to count them again.
As @S.H. wrote, which one of top contenders won't be at Olympics with your quota of 6? Sure some of top Austrian or Swiss guys might miss Olympics, but they would miss them regardless of quota, as they simply wouldn't fit into 4 guys that are allowed to start on race. Maybe today it's not really that much of an issue, when there's maybe Austria in DH with more then 4 guys in top 15, but otherwise there's no other country that would dominate things so much. But in past there were times, when you could be top 10 on World cup and not had a chance to start Olympics or WCH because 4 of your countrymen were infront of you, while with right citizenship, you could. But these quota system, which does seems low for top countries, it's still pretty much impossible to miss Olympics if you are at least sort of good.

 

[fatbob]

Not your outrage.

The general outrage from others, like Nyman and the writer of the quoted article

Surely Nyman didn't get a place because he and the whole US mens' programme isn't performing well enough not because some no hoper nations are squeezing athletes in. Yeah if you were world ranked top 10 with 4 fellow countrymen ahead of you that's tough but it's not Austria and that's always been a known.

The IOC and respective sports federations could of course clean up their act but hey they are dealing with the IOC and respective national OCs - being bent is part of the orthodoxy.

 

[Moose32]

On to Schladming...

 

[Primoz]

One more thing about quotas... I just saw Austrian selection for Beijing.
Speed: Haaser (5. SG), Hemetsberger (8. DH, 4. SG), Kriechmayer (6. DH, 4. SG), Mayer (3. DH , 3. SG), Striedinger (11. DH)
Out is Franz (12. DH, 15. SG), but even with bigger quota, he wouldn't get spot in top 4 of Austrians. So quota didn't really matter here. With bigger quota he would probably go to Beijing as reserve and fight for spot on trainings, as it was case in past.
Tech: Feller (2. GS, 10. SL), Matt (17. SL), Schwarz (20. GS, 21.SL), Strolz (8. SL).
Out are Leitinger, Feuerstein, Brennsteiner and Gstrein, but all of them are ranked 17. or worse in GS (20th in SL for Gstrein), so not really some of best ones.
So even for Austrians, it's not really quota issue, that would prevent them to have all top racers at games.
On the other side, our xc team got quota of 9 (men and women combined). While if feels good, it still beats me how the hell they got that. Sure we got 2 medals in WCH last year, and overall sprint globe, but that's from 2 women. Everything else have no chance to get to top 30 and score points on normal WC race. I assume there's some relay involved but it's pretty impressive to see that huge number with no real results.
Edit: Small correction with above... Austria got 2 extra spots, so Franz and Brennsteiner are going too, but it doesn't change much the whole point that none of top guys is left home because quotas would be too small.

 

[dbostedo]

Now this is something even I didn't think about. Will try this ASAP.

Now I'm envisioning a good story about how Tony managed to snap the tips off of both of his poles...

 

[James]

Interesting video of some grooming on the Streif.

 

[geepers]

@geepers while I agree these quotas are a bit weird, I actually agree with @S.H. that all the top contenders will be there. The biggest and loudest cry about these quotas is coming from US, which has quota of 6 men. It certainly doesn't sound like much, but realistically, it's more then you actually have competitive skiers to send (unless if we go to exactly same exotic skiers US guys are crying so much about them). I was just talking with friend last time, and Italy has quota of 7, Austria has quota of 9 and so does France and Norway, while Switzerland is on better side with 11. But then if you look at WCSL, Austria has 20 guys in top 100, Switzerland 14, Italy 13, France 11.... and USA? Whole six.... oops that was data from last week, which changed with latest one (23.1.2022), so since yesterday, there's 8. 21, 23, 37, 62, 89, 90, 97, 98. This also means probably data for other countries are different, but I'm not going to count them again.
As @S.H. wrote, which one of top contenders won't be at Olympics with your quota of 6? Sure some of top Austrian or Swiss guys might miss Olympics, but they would miss them regardless of quota, as they simply wouldn't fit into 4 guys that are allowed to start on race. Maybe today it's not really that much of an issue, when there's maybe Austria in DH with more then 4 guys in top 15, but otherwise there's no other country that would dominate things so much. But in past there were times, when you could be top 10 on World cup and not had a chance to start Olympics or WCH because 4 of your countrymen were infront of you, while with right citizenship, you could. But these quota system, which does seems low for top countries, it's still pretty much impossible to miss Olympics if you are at least sort of good.

Being Australian, don't really give a fig about quotas for the USA.

Bemusing that the IOC/FIS (or whoever is responsible) hasn't figured out an effective way of ensuring competitor competency. If only to uphold the spectacle of the world's best in action.

Yep, some athletes are not going to make their national team. And it must be tough for selection committees when they are spoiled for choice. This mostly affects the nations with depth of talent as you point out. Leonhard Stock at Lake Placid being the classic example.

Australia have similar issues with swimming, not so much in alpine skiing.

 

[James]

Bemusing that the IOC/FIS (or whoever is responsible) hasn't figured out an effective way of ensuring competitor competency. If only to uphold the spectacle of the world's best in action.

Well you’d end up with just athletes from Europe, Scandanavia, North America.
What about Mexico?
Skied at 2021 World Championships, showed why fencing is necessary even at low speeds:

 

[4ster]

Noel
Feller
Foss-Solevaag

 

[Rudi Riet]

Yule
Feller
Foss-Solevaag

 

[James]

Will there be fans?

Ten years ago:
Ligety- 6th


Hirscher - 1st

 

[Moose32]

HK, Noel, FS

 

[James]

Noel
Foss-Solevaag
Vinatzer

HK
Strolz

 

[geepers]

Well you’d end up with just athletes from Europe, Scandanavia, North America.
What about Mexico?
Skied at 2021 World Championships, showed why fencing is necessary even at low speeds:

That's why they have country caps. As some-one wrote earlier it's the Olympics not the WC.

So the question becomes: which of the non-traditional skiing nations get to send athletes and are they at least capable of doing the job better than us mere mortals?

The FIS point bar must be reasonable as even Aussie alpine skiers get to go. We have a small alpine team - the very last skier in the 1st run at Kitz SL was an Aussie (DNF but got a tick from Ed Drake) and Greta Small has been regularly competing in women's WC events, sometimes outperforming the entire Canadian team . (Not so much recently as the Canadians seem to have lifted their game...) They appear to have qualified the usual way in that they are competent at that level. But realistically not much chance of making run 2 and a podium would require a massive Steven Bradbury. (We probably haven't had an alpine contender since Zali Steggels in 1998 won a WC SL event and then a Bronze at Nagano.)

With a sport like swimming (where they try really hard to make all the pools the same speed) or sprinting (where there's limits on tailwind assist) they can set qualifying times that are to a large degree quantifiable.

Harder with skiing as everything changes all the time. So FIS point games. Must be how the powers that be like it. Can't be done anonymously.

 

[geepers]

Contains the complete version of Ed Drake's commentary on Ryding's 2nd run, some discussion on Olympic quotas re GB.

 

[hbear]

Also, there are a bunch of young GB tech skiers doing extremely well on the EC and Charlie Guest on women’s side. With Dave showing the way, tremendeously good for team GB. On a sidenote: italian tech men looks like they might be onto something.

YES! Dave had done a wonderful job at building a team and structure for GB ski racing. We see the group train in Sweden every year, and the team has some serious chops. Very quality skiing for sure.