New Sequoia

[Tom K.]

Not on my shopping list anyway, but no flat load floor would be a stone cold deal-killer for us and our vehicle use.

I need to be able to remove row 2 and 3, or at least fold row 3 flat into the floor.

See our short WB, low roof, AWD Transit for example!

But I'm not an off-road guy at all.

 

[nay]

Not on my shopping list anyway, but no flat load floor would be a stone cold deal-killer for us and our vehicle use.

I need to be able to remove row 2 and 3, or at least fold row 3 flat into the floor.

See our short WB, low roof, AWD Transit for example!

But I'm not an off-road guy at all.

Really easy to make a second gen everything you need and nothing you don’t.

She got proper 35’s and Husky X-Act Fit liners this week and a new Pioneer wireless CarPlay head unit has arrived from Crutchfield. A badass hauler that isn’t afraid to get dirty.

 

[nay]

The unfortunate other reason to get the older truck. That poor deer at 65 mph, she just leapt out of the brush.

Only blew the washer fluid assembly under the driver side headlight and some plastic and trim over there, and the bumper.

A Road Armor bumper is on order - you might be able to get something aftermarket for a modern truck but you have to make all the sensors work.

Also you probably won’t pull the bent brackets back out yourself.

 

[tball]

Bummer @nay! Is the grill OK? Glad to hear you were not in your new Subi. On 285?

 

[nay]

Bummer @nay! Is the grill OK? Glad to hear you were not in your new Subi. On 285?

Exactly what we said, thankfully not in the new Ascent.

This was on 50 east of Royal Gorge on that final descent into Canyon City. She just came out of the sage on the side of the road, zero warning. Only lost the driver’s side headlight washer, which is why it lost all of the washer fluid. That’s an easy fix. Or something you really don’t need in the first place so just cap off the hose (already done for the patch).

You’d want to replace those bumper mounting brackets to put on a stock bumper as that stuff is pretty exact, but an aftermarket bumper only mounts to the frame so it doesn’t matter. Grill is entirely intact, although it will get swapped for a Tundra grill to match the new bumper, since for the most part second gen bumpers are made for Tundra’s and not Sequoias, even though the frames and mounts are the same - only difference is the grill.

Hood latch also broke, also a cheap and easy fix. A lot less than a $1K insurance deductible.

On a modern vehicle, that kind of hit is thousands of dollars because so much safety sensor stuff is in the bumper. Cars are getting totaled for fender benders because of this, and all of our insurance rates are going to go way, way up with this plus the cost of used vehicles. Way up. Way. Up.

 

[noobski]

On a modern vehicle, that kind of hit is thousands of dollars because so much safety sensor stuff is in the bumper. Cars are getting totaled for fender benders because of this, and all of our insurance rates are going to go way, way up with this plus the cost of used vehicles. Way up. Way. Up.

This is very true. The auto safety requirements are very expensive to maintain when it comes to insurance.

I backed into someone once in a parking garage. Very slow, maybe 3-5 mph. No visible damage. I left a note on the windshield telling the owner what happened and to call me and I'll repair if there's an issue. He called, didn't even notice it, but to be safe, we sent it into the shop. Shop said I blew out the first layer of impact on the bumper, totalling the bumper (again, no visible issues). what I thought would be $0 - $100 or something was a whole new bumper at $850. I paid out of pocket to avoid insurance claim.

 

[noobski]

"Shadowline Trim" posted on Instagram and Autoevolution...yep, I could like this.

 

[tball]

This is my only complaint with my second generation Sequoia:

That's about as bad as the mpg gets for me. That was all from short trips in town when it's cold and letting the truck warm up at times. The new hybrid will be so much better in those conditions, maybe even double the mpg. The mpg numbers are not out yet for the hybrid Tundra, but seems like 23 mpg combined for the hybrid Tundra and Sequoia is within reach given the F150 with a similar drivetrain they are targeting:

So, hypothetically, I could increase my mileage from 14 combined to 23 combined. Fuel economy increases don't get more compelling with a new generation vehicle, and they have me interested.

Here's the thing, though. I don't drive my Sequoia much.

I've owned my Sequoia for two and a half years and only put 16,000 miles on it. Most of those miles are from Denver to Copper/A-basin/MJ and back, plus a bit of hauling lots of people or driving when there is snow on the roads in Denver like the last week. I much prefer driving my sport sedan for both fun and a bit better economy (not as big of a difference as you'd think accounting for a hefty right foot and premium gas in my car and hypermiling the Sequoia).

Here's my math:
Second-gen Sequoia: 16,000 miles / 14 mpg = 1143 gal x $3.00/gal = $3429
Third-gen Sequoia: 16.000 miles / 23 mpg = 696 gal x $3.00/gal = $2086

So the new hybrid Sequoia will save me $1350 in fuel over 2.5 years or $537/year. Given the cost of depreciation and insurance of a new Sequoia vs. my 2012, no way that makes sense for me. If I was driving it 16,000 miles per year, ($1350 x 10 years = $13,500) it starts to get interesting, but still doesn't come close to paying for a new truck over an old one.

Even with the enormous fuel economy improvements, buying a new hybrid Sequoia won't make sense for most existing owners. Of course, that won't stop anybody! There will be LOTS of current owners upgrading to the new Sequoia, probably at a rate only constrained by production capacity.

So, for anyone looking for a fantastic, reliable, and capable ski vehicle to haul a ton of stuff, there will likely be a lot of Sequoia turnover in the next couple of years. So consider a second-gen if you don't have a compelling reason to pay up for the improved mileage.

 

[Jersey Skier]

This is my only complaint with my second generation Sequoia:

View attachment 158876

That's about as bad as the mpg gets for me. That was all from short trips in town when it's cold and letting the truck warm up at times. The new hybrid will be so much better in those conditions, maybe even double the mpg. The mpg numbers are not out yet for the hybrid Tundra, but seems like 23 mpg combined for the hybrid Tundra and Sequoia is within reach given the F150 with a similar drivetrain they are targeting:

View attachment 158875

So, hypothetically, I could increase my mileage from 14 combined to 23 combined. Fuel economy increases don't get more compelling with a new generation vehicle, and they have me interested.

Here's the thing, though. I don't drive my Sequoia much.

I've owned my Sequoia for two and a half years and only put 16,000 miles on it. Most of those miles are from Denver to Copper/A-basin/MJ and back, plus a bit of hauling lots of people or driving when there is snow on the roads in Denver like the last week. I much prefer driving my sport sedan for both fun and a bit better economy (not as big of a difference as you'd think accounting for a hefty right foot and premium gas in my car and hypermiling the Sequoia).

Here's my math:
Second-gen Sequoia: 16,000 miles / 14 mpg = 1143 gal x $3.00/gal = $3429
Third-gen Sequoia: 16.000 miles / 23 mpg = 696 gal x $3.00/gal = $2086

So the new hybrid Sequoia will save me $1350 in fuel over 2.5 years or $537/year. Given the cost of depreciation and insurance of a new Sequoia vs. my 2012, no way that makes sense for me. If I was driving it 16,000 miles per year, ($1350 x 10 years = $13,500) it starts to get interesting, but still doesn't come close to paying for a new truck over an old one.

Even with the enormous fuel economy improvements, buying a new hybrid Sequoia won't make sense for most existing owners. Of course, that won't stop anybody! There will be LOTS of current owners upgrading to the new Sequoia, probably at a rate only constrained by production capacity.

So, for anyone looking for a fantastic, reliable, and capable ski vehicle to haul a ton of stuff, there will likely be a lot of Sequoia turnover in the next couple of years. So consider a second-gen if you don't have a compelling reason to pay up for the improved mileage.

This is the problem I always run into when trying to justify to myself why I need to replace my Suburban. The math is never in favor of a better vehicle.

 

[noobski]

This is the problem I always run into when trying to justify to myself why I need to replace my Suburban. The math is never in favor of a better vehicle.

I strongly agree. I drive a 2014 with no plans to change over anytime soon...however I will watch the Sequoia with interest especially if they build a longer version in the next few years.

 

[nay]

I strongly agree. I drive a 2014 with no plans to change over anytime soon...however I will watch the Sequoia with interest especially if they build a longer version in the next few years.

I love my second gen. It’s a perfect bike and ski rig, it’s huge, people stay away from me on the road, and I won’t mind getting it dirty. I was really wondering if a 2008 we feel “too old”, but it doesn’t have any stupid driving assist crap and I like the dash interface. Kinda perfect.

I like driving tanks, though, and when I get in a fast car…it’s a fast car. So it’s really best for me to not be in a fast car.

The new Tundra will apparently be more in the 20 mph combined range, so we’re looking at 5 mpg…maybe…with a really light foot. Twin turbos don’t inspire light feet.

Our Subaru Ascent at 4,600 lbs is a rocket ship compared to this V8. It’s not even close, especially on passes. And that thing will get 26 on the highway.

 

[noobski]

I love my second gen. It’s a perfect bike and ski rig, it’s huge, people stay away from me on the road, and I won’t mind getting it dirty. I was really wondering if a 2008 we feel “too old”, but it doesn’t have any stupid driving assist crap and I like the dash interface. Kinda perfect.

I like driving tanks, though, and when I get in a fast car…it’s a fast car. So it’s really best for me to not be in a fast car.

The new Tundra will apparently be more in the 20 mph combined range, so we’re looking at 5 mpg…maybe…with a really light foot. Twin turbos don’t inspire light feet.

Our Subaru Ascent at 4,600 lbs is a rocket ship compared to this V8. It’s not even close, especially on passes. And that thing will get 26 on the highway.

I like your style. Agree with all. I actually have the Suburban and then have a 30 year old sports car that I've had for 29 of its 30 years. It's old enough now that I don't drive it in a way that would get me in trouble. It's a great combo. Wife is adding the Ascent to her shopping list, although she drives a 2010 Touareg with no issues at all and so no urgency to find a new car any year soon thankfully.

 

[nay]

The other thing based on @tball ’s math:

Here's my math:
Second-gen Sequoia: 16,000 miles / 14 mpg = 1143 gal x $3.00/gal = $3429
Third-gen Sequoia: 16.000 miles / 23 mpg = 696 gal x $3.00/gal = $2086

That new Sequoia will easily cost the difference in gas to insure unless you drive a ton of miles, plus all the car tax people will pay in car tax states.

I don’t think you’d ever break even just at “cost to own”.

 

[noobski]

The other thing based on @tball ’s math:

Here's my math:
Second-gen Sequoia: 16,000 miles / 14 mpg = 1143 gal x $3.00/gal = $3429
Third-gen Sequoia: 16.000 miles / 23 mpg = 696 gal x $3.00/gal = $2086

That new Sequoia will easily cost the difference in gas to insure unless you drive a ton of miles, plus all the car tax people will pay in car tax states.

I don’t think you’d ever break even just at “cost to own”.

I agree, however possibly depends too on where you live for both gas and auto insurance.

If you took a wider range on fuel prices then you might eventually find a better breakeven on the gas spread v. extra insurance, however it may be more at $4 a gallon plus.

We pay about 3.30 a gallon and out west I think it's closer to $4. Our insurance rates are a lot lower though. It would not, at the margin, be $1400 more to insure the Sequoia here, but your point is all well taken. The spread savings, if it exists, may not necessarily be returned back over the lifetime of the car.

Perhaps the best comparison will be to run any remaining new 2021/2022 Sequoia to the new one's and then try to figure out the spreads there are worth the premium pricing and the economic (and social/environmental) aspects of the newer car.

 

[nay]

I agree, however possibly depends too on where you live for both gas and auto insurance.

If you took a wider range on fuel prices then you might eventually find a better breakeven on the gas spread v. extra insurance, however it may be more at $4 a gallon plus.

We pay about 3.30 a gallon and out west I think it's closer to $4. Our insurance rates are a lot lower though. It would not, at the margin, be $1400 more to insure the Sequoia here, but your point is all well taken. The spread savings, if it exists, may not necessarily be returned back over the lifetime of the car.

Perhaps the best comparison will be to run any remaining new 2021/2022 Sequoia to the new one's and then try to figure out the spreads there are worth the premium pricing and the economic (and social/environmental) aspects of the newer car.

All fair, insurance is expensive in Colorado due to wind and hail.

I figure you kinda have to trick yourself into thinking that buying a $70K bucket of depreciation has any particularly positive financial attributes. You pretty much have to ignore the actual purchase of the vehicle and only focus on the operating costs.

 

[noobski]

Sequoia pricing is out...pretty massive jumps from 2022...jeez, hard to stomach.

2023 Toyota Sequoia pricing details​

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Model	2023 price	2022 price	Increase
SR5 4x2	$59,795	$51,995	$7,800
SR5 4x4	$62,795	$55,220	$7,575
TRD Sport 4x2	*	$54,710	-
TRD Sport 4x4	*	$57,935	-
Limited 4x2	$66,195	$61,015	$5,180
Limited 4x4	$69,195	$64,240	$4,955
Nightshade 4x2	-	$62,100	-
Nightshade 4x4	-	$65,325	-
Platinum 4x2	$72,395	$68,045	$4,350
Platinum 4x4	$75,395	$71,270	$4,125
TRD Pro 4x4	$78,395	$66,120	$12,275
Capstone 4x2	$76,795	-	-
Capstone 4x4	$79,795	-	-

All prices include $1,495 destination and handling fee.

 

[nay]

The limited/platinum aren’t bad given 2022 is a 2008 vehicle. The TRD Pro is actually excellent when you consider what a 200 series Land Cruiser costs and this is the replacement, North America size and style.

I finally got the Road Armor bumper for my 2008. It’s 3/16” thick all the way around. No more deer concerns, anyway.

 

[tball]

The limited/platinum aren’t bad given 2022 is a 2008 vehicle. The TRD Pro is actually excellent when you consider what a 200 series Land Cruiser costs and this is the replacement, North America size and style.

Exactly. I also bet the Sequoia isn't priced too far off the competition, which probably drove the pricing more than anything.

Being on the same platform as the global LC and US LX is a huge deal. Several times in this video, they mention buying a Sequoia vs. the $125K LX:

 

[Philpug]

Sequoia pricing is out...pretty massive jumps from 2022...jeez, hard to stomach.

2023 Toyota Sequoia pricing details​

Share this table

Model	2023 price	2022 price	Increase
SR5 4x2	$59,795	$51,995	$7,800
SR5 4x4	$62,795	$55,220	$7,575
TRD Sport 4x2	*	$54,710	-
TRD Sport 4x4	*	$57,935	-
Limited 4x2	$66,195	$61,015	$5,180
Limited 4x4	$69,195	$64,240	$4,955
Nightshade 4x2	-	$62,100	-
Nightshade 4x4	-	$65,325	-
Platinum 4x2	$72,395	$68,045	$4,350
Platinum 4x4	$75,395	$71,270	$4,125
TRD Pro 4x4	$78,395	$66,120	$12,275
Capstone 4x2	$76,795	-	-
Capstone 4x4	$79,795	-	-

All prices include $1,495 destination and handling fee.

But how do the equipment packages change? What is standard now that wasn't before.

 

[noobski]

But how do the equipment packages change? What is standard now that wasn't before.

Good question: we test drove a 4runner this past weekend and I asked about the Sequoia.

Sales guy was convinced it was significant improvements among each line (i.e. SR5 now more like limited, etc), but couched it because he hasn't actually seen one yet.

He mentioned the 4Runner was due for an update as well in 2023 but they pushed it back to 2024 because the Sequoia has taken a lot longer to roll out. He envisioned the 4Runner to have similar price bumps on the remodel.