Not a review just an observation

[jgiddyup]

I bought two pairs of new skis this season. One (Fischer RC one 86GT) was designated advanced/expert by manufacturer and reviews I read. The other (Nordica Doberman Spitfire RB72) designated expert/amateur race by manufacturer and reviews.

I skied the Fischer yesterday at Keystone in mostly good snow (scraped off on steeper blue runs) on groomers only.

I skied the Nordica today in mostly good snow on groomers, off piste wind blown chalk, softish intermediate bumps and steep hard bumps.

I'm an upper intermediate skier that gets down (occasionally skis) a lot of advanced and a moderate amount of expert terrain.

The point of this post is to say that I've bought a half dozen skis that were supposedly above to well above my ability level and I've never had a problem skiing any of them. I find it highly unlikely I'm anywhere close to alone in this observation so It's my opinion that most people looking for new skis should aim a full notch or three above their current ability level and take reviews with a large grain of salt.

Probably not a popular opinion but it's based on a good amount of experience the last 17yrs.

ETA that yesterday and today were my first 2 days on snow in 3yrs.

 

[scott43]

Well...at the end of the day...how different are they really??? You might be able to use a more advanced ski to it's ultimate limits..but..you can still slide down the hill on them if you aren't a pro.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Maybe after 17 years you are better than you think?

 

[Delicious]

My opinion:
A good ski will be EASY to ski and MAY have a high performance ceiling.
A crap ski will be difficult and unrewarding to ski, and you won't care about it's performance ceiling. The crap ski will be EXTREMELY popular and coveted by those who "can ski it".

Your opinion may not be popular, but the facts are the facts. 90% of skis are marketed as being "high performance". I see almost no one doing high performance "ski things" with their high performance skis. So who's opinion matters? Yours!

 

[fatbob]

Weight and to a certain extent leverage counts in being able to mellow out stiff skis as well as technique.

But yeah otherwise I rarely see a ski being positioned below at least intermediate-advanced range with a great many described as advanced-expert. Aspirational marketing and vanity are real in the ski market. Some of it makes sense, true beginners and early intermediates and casual 1 vacation per year skiers are much less likely to be buying their own kit.

 

[jt10000]

on a good amount of experience the last 17yrs.

 

[Living Proof]

It has been 5+ years since I've skied with @jgiddyup (Hope all is well with you Jim), and, just want to offer the opinion that Jim is not an "intermediate" skier in terms of getting down a difficult slope, including bumps.. From a technique perspective, much more a power skier than stylist, not a carving RR track skier. Also, he. is a pretty big guy so he stresses a ski. For sure he beats me down the mountain every time.

I am in.a similar situation as Jim, in that I have not skied in years and just spent my 1st day this season on a new to me ski. I very reluctant to write any kind of review of the ski, it's the old "archer skill not the arrow" tale. My technique is nowhere near what is was.

I'm also a bigger guy, and, generally agree we can ski "more advanced skis". I'll also state that during my demo days, there were "advanced" skis I enjoyed, but, far more skis that I did not like. Some advance the opinion that there are "no bad skis" modern skis. I am not in agreement with Jim's conclusions, but, to each their own. Each individual needs to know what they value in ski performance, and, what you are willing to spend to get it. I've bought skis at great discounts did not deliver, and, sold them promptly. If I am going to spend multiple days on a ski, I don't want to fight it.

 

[Philpug]

My opinion:
A good ski will be EASY to ski and MAY have a high performance ceiling.
A crap ski will be difficult and unrewarding to ski, and you won't care about it's performance ceiling. The crap ski will be EXTREMELY popular and coveted by those who "can ski it".

I understand that this is you opinion but I have to disagree here. I think the days of "crap skis" has long past (other than a few isolated skis from obscure houses). Yes, there are skis that have performance ceilings and there are others that have higher bars of entries, that does not make them crap. All the skis on the market are there with a purpose while they might not be for everyone, it does not make them crap.

 

[Mendieta]

I agree with @jgiddyup that denominations in marketing materials are inflated when you look at skill-set in the abstract (ski reviews, I am not so sure, it depends on the reviewer). I think the reason is clear and simple. I always thought manufacturers are selling skis for the masses, and their characterization for most of their skis (outside of regulation, FIS) skis is really aimed at their average reader/buyer. In that population of mostly casual skiers, most avid skiers who have skied for a decade or more probably fall in the very highest part of the distribution.

Having said that: for someone starting to ski, buying a beginner ski (by marketing materials) is a GREAT idea IMHO, and conversely, buying a more advanced ski will likely slow down your learning process, and create bad habits that will take years to get rid of.

 

[James]

Wait, you mean there’s an “advanced” area of the ski shop behind a curtain?

 

[Tom K.]

As @Living Proof noted, I suspect you're just a better skier than you think @jgiddyup!

 

[Yo Momma]

I agree w/ Philpug here. Very few "Crap" skis on the market. The overall ski quality quotient is off the scales compared to even 10 years ago. I'm dinging rocks now and it's barely scratching the ptex. I had an issue w/ a set of Bones from years ago "delaming" a little and Blizzard happily replaced them w/ a set from the next year that I couldn't gouge if wanted to. It's not just Blizzard, same for my new Mantras, Jskis and Moments. It's like they are bullet proof.

It's more about finding the right ski for your purposes. As a learning experiment around gear, I've put several intermediate skiers on the Bones for a run or two (Blizz Bonafide's) w/ 2 sheets of metal and it was like they were on toboggans. Go straight, no control at all. A great ski, on the wrong skier. They all hated it and thought it was a horrible ski. You place an advanced skier on them and ask them to blow through 3 day old chop and death cookies... and they are the cat's meow.

The reverse happened when I tried various sets of Nordica Enforcers. They were tuned by a top level race shop and given to me by the owner who wanted me to try them out. An amazing ski as confirmed by so many, but not MY ski. I did not bond w/ that ski at all but I have absolute respect for the quality and I was familiar w/ shall we say "the feel" of these skis.

 

[Crank]

I don't try or buy a ton of skis. I have a different take though in that I kind of like a softer, more forgiving ski. I can ski an expert rated chargers, but I like to relax sometimes. I mostly go for skis that are rated advanced. Maybe that is my level.

 

[scott43]

I'm not at the same level in skis, but this happens in bikes. There was a great and belligerent man named Jobst Brandt who rightly argued that if you didn't let someone see if they were on a steel/alu/carbon/Ti bike, they would not be able to tell the difference between them. Similarly, the nuance to be able to tell a 990mm wheelbase from a 1000mm wheelbase is nearly impossible for 99.99% of the population to define. There is only so much changing ANYTHING will do to mitigate rear triangle shock transmission. How many ways can you reinvent the wheel and try to spin it to sell more widgets? So I have time for people who may think that one ski to the next, the nuance, notwithstanding incredibly different dimensions (63 waist vs 113 waist), is probably lost on 99% of the skiing population.

 

[scott43]

Wait, you mean there’s an “advanced” area of the ski shop behind a curtain?

View attachment 157077

Probably more like..

 

[Yo Momma]

Probably more like..
View attachment 157083

Interesting but there is a "Race Specific" shop that I go to sometimes and it's truly like a peak behind the curtain.... the gear is almost unrecognizable to me and that's coming from a TOTAL GEAR SLUT!!! ..... then again my area of interests lie more in the deep pow, off piste zones... I sold the race stock skis I bought from them bec I know my limits! I was going to get killed on those things! Crazy fast pieces of machinery... last time I skied them I was w/ a friend and we got to the bottom of the run and we were literally on the ground rolling around laughing because of the insane speed... nah... too dangerous, no trust fund, and I my health care deductible is too high for that shiznit! ... I stay in my lane now...

 

[cantunamunch]

Maybe after 17 years you are better than you think?

and his boots fit better than those of most self-described intermediates.

Interesting but there is a "Race Specific" shop that I go to sometimes and it's truly like a peak behind the curtain.... t

I'm just surprised that more of your shops don't have literal curtains.

 

[Racetiger]

This discussion reminds me of the unapologetically transparent strategy of directly eliciting the human ego with ski equipment branding. For many other similar products, marketing knows how easy we find it to connect the model name of a product with our personal identities. Cuts straight through society’s emerging pretense of humility so thinly veiled over our social media identities. But when we are shopping for ski equipment, the story changes: “F*ck that sh*t, being humble is for wussies, I am AWESOME and get out of my way!”

When you think of it, us skiers are like superheroes/villains on secret missions in fantasy worlds. “OK, time to put on my Doberman boots, click into my Attack bindings on my Enforcer skis to ride the Chariot of Fire lift to get to the Devil’s Plunge trail and perform the Phantom move all the way down to the bottom where I will then be available for my post dark arts black ops mission press conference. One would think that a cross between a Marine, a Warlock, James Bond and Ted Bundy would make the perfect skier.

 

[cantunamunch]

When you think of it, us skiers are like superheroes/villains on secret missions in fantasy worlds. “OK, time to put on my Doberman boots, click into my Attack bindings on my Enforcer skis to ride the Chariot of Fire lift to get to the Devil’s Plunge trail and perform the Phantom move all the way down to the bottom where I will then be available for my post dark arts black ops mission press conference. One would think that a cross between a Marine, a Warlock, James Bond and Ted Bundy would make the perfect skier.

Of course. This is so normalized across current society that nobody even recognizes "The Secret Life of Walter Mitty" as something that should have an ironic reading.


And the second movie proves it.

 

[scott43]

Can't ride a road bike without spandex shorts..right? Or a gravel bike without a moustache and 3 bags..