Passenger All-Weather Tires with 3PMSF aka "4season" tires discussion

[AlpsSkidad]

2500 miles on the Toyos. Yesterday coming back from Snow Summit, stopped for gas. Pulling into the gas station and sudden deflation in the front right. Don’t even know what this was that I ran over pulling in, but ruined my day-and the new tire. Stopped at the tire shop this morning, tire is backordered nationwide, no ETA. Pulled the set off today and put the Pirelli all seasons back on until a new Toyo can be found. Haven’t even gotten to test them in any real snow yet...

 

[cantunamunch]

da-yum.

 

[nay]

Falcon AT Trail continues to kill it. We’ve had some good icing events that have led to closures in the neighborhood with vehicles off the road.

I just drove around this in the Ascent and have hit some known frequent icing spots in bad condition, they continue to handle everything with no drama.

You can see the ice here with various slip patterns from other vehicles - this is a left turn uphill where ice will kick the rear off the road.

I know because we just bought a 2008 Sequoia with Nitto Ridge Grapplers (shitty but survivable) and I kicked the rear off the road testing them out the day we bought it. Figured I’d bring the Ascent right behind it to compare. Very slick, but no issues.

My daughter has been driving to her dance classes in these conditions with the AT Trail on her Forester. I just ask her how it did. She says “Like a boss” and then talks about all the cars off the road and detours she had to take with zero drama on the way home.

That’s about the best barometer I can have, although she’s been a passenger in insane situations her whole life so she doesn’t have a fear factor problem.

 

[AlpsSkidad]

2500 miles on the Toyos. Yesterday coming back from Snow Summit, stopped for gas. Pulling into the gas station and sudden deflation in the front right. Don’t even know what this was that I ran over pulling in, but ruined my day-and the new tire. Stopped at the tire shop this morning, tire is backordered nationwide, no ETA. Pulled the set off today and put the Pirelli all seasons back on until a new Toyo can be found. Haven’t even gotten to test them in any real snow yet... View attachment 155602

update....
it’s been a month and 5 visits to the America’s tire shop... finally said they found me a tire. They claim “it’s the only one in the entire US” not sure I am buying that there is only one of these tires in the entire country, and it magically appeared after all this time. Nevertheless, I hope to have it installed Wednesday.

 

[tball]

know because we just bought a 2008 Sequoia with Nitto Ridge Grapplers (shitty but survivable) and I kicked the rear off the road testing them out the day we bought it.

Congrats on your new Sequoia!

None of the vehicles I've ever owned needed dedicated snow tires more than my second-generation Sequoia, and I've had dedicated snow tires on all my ski vehicles for 30+ years.

The weight of the Sequoia makes stopping on ice and packed snow on a downhill grade dangerously long, and that's with Michelin LTX A/T 2, which are rated "very good" for snow traction by CR.

The solution, of course, is studded Hakkas, which make the truck an outright snow beast:

 

[nay]

Congrats on your new Sequoia!

None of the vehicles I've ever owned needed dedicated snow tires more than my second-generation Sequoia, and I've had dedicated snow tires on all my ski vehicles for 30+ years.

The weight of the Sequoia makes stopping on ice and packed snow on a downhill grade dangerously long, and that's with Michelin LTX A/T 2, which are rated "very good" for snow traction by CR.

The solution, of course, is studded Hakkas, which make the truck an outright snow beast:

View attachment 158882

I’ve got 35” Patagonia MTs on it. Landed in the snow at DIA last night, omfg what has happened to people driving in the snow in Denver, we were going 10 mph at times for 2” of snow, it took me an hour to get to Parker on 225. We had might as well live in Dallas.

Was a bit icy in places, I was passing people at double their driving speed like crazy until there was nobody left on 83 and I could drive in peace. I do agree the second gen Sequioa’s are quite a bit more of a pig than even the first gen, but the Patagonia is a good snow tire and has been drama free so far.

Nobody here should put that tire on anything they own. Probably also not the best idea to take pictures while driving on ice, but I have a lot of practice.

 

[AlpsSkidad]

I looked over at the car in the parking spot next to me today in Snow Summit. I looked at his tires and saw this. Not sure how he’s getting around in the snow/ice on these tires. They were the same on all 4 corners. It was a GMC Acadia- so AWD, but…

 

[cosmoliu]

After mounting a set of CC2s last year for a Utah road trip and encountering only dry roads, I finally got to test them today on an 8 hour drive from Winter Park to LCC on Hwy 40. About 2" overnight and intermittent squalls through the day, with drifting snow in many places. Very pleased.

 

[Ken_R]

I looked over at the car in the parking spot next to me today in Snow Summit. I looked at his tires and saw this. Not sure how he’s getting around in the snow/ice on these tires. They were the same on all 4 corners. It was a GMC Acadia- so AWD, but…
View attachment 161911

God help us. OMG

 

[Tom K.]

The solution, of course, is studded Hakkas, which make the truck an outright snow beast:

As most on this forum know, the answer is always Miata or studded Hakkas!

We have them on my wife's fairly underpowered Honda Element so she can always get to the barn.

They flat out deliver.

 

[Ken_R]

interesting

 

[Tom K.]

interesting

Very interesting. Not as big a difference as I would have guessed. What I'd really like to see is:

Same car in all cases, shod with:

1. The Michelin PS all-seasons.
2. The Michelin CC "snow rated".
3. Hakkas unstudded.
4. Hakkas studded.

I don't want much, do I?!

 

[nay]

Very interesting. Not as big a difference as I would have guessed.

That’s getting upwards of a 20% better braking performance for the 3PMSF tire over the all season so squarely what you’d expect based on tire ratings, I think.

One of my sons bought a 2012 Impreza and he gets a free set of snow tires up to a certain cost limit working at Discount Tire so he put on the GT Radial Champiro WinterPro, which they like at DT. Says it’s been glued to the road.

Assuming we get some more challenging conditions, we’ll go out and test since the 2015 Forrester is built on the Impreza platform and that’s about as close as you can get to apples to apples without using the same car. This assumes the two drivers are around at the same time during a storm.

That comparison would be the Falken AT Trail 3PMSF all weather tire vs. the dedicated winter tire, which is really to the point of this thread rather than the all weather tire vs. all season.

I’ve really stopped thinking about it, the Falkens have been unflappable on both Subarus and we’ve seen decent ice (lots of wrecks today, unreal what people are driving around).

I’m curious to do the comparison since it’s really two setups that have shown zero traction issues, so we will get some numbers if opportunity presents.

 

[François Pugh]

What I want to know is how much does the Michelin cross-climate II (I think it's now two) give up to the Michelin Pilot All Season 4 on dry and wet pavement in the summer.

 

[Jwrags]

What I want to know is how much does the Michelin cross-climate II (I think it's now two) give up to the Michelin Pilot All Season 4 on dry and wet pavement in the summer.

Living in Oregon I drive in rain a lot. The CC2 are great on wet roads! I have no complaint about performance on dry pavement but I am driving a Highlander.

 

[Tom K.]

What I want to know is how much does the Michelin cross-climate II (I think it's now two) give up to the Michelin Pilot All Season 4 on dry and wet pavement in the summer.

Probably more in wear than actual noticeable performance?

 

[nay]

Probably more in wear than actual noticeable performance?

Some testing footnotes in this link at the very bottom.

CrossClimate 2 | Michelin

Michelin CrossClimate 2 tire is designed for exceptional performance, all season traction, longer tread life and a quiet ride. Read customer reviews & shop today.

www.michelinman.com

 

[snwbrdr]

What I want to know is how much does the Michelin cross-climate II (I think it's now two) give up to the Michelin Pilot All Season 4 on dry and wet pavement in the summer.

One is a ultra high performance tire, and one is a grand touring tire...

buying tires is full of compromises. On the flip side, of course, the Michelin PAS4 will give up performance in the snow and ice compared to the CC2.

If one was a coastal californian, with 2 sets of wheels... PAS4 for 3-seasons and the CC2 for winter.

As, I have done something similar, Nokian Z-line AS for 3-seasons and Nokian WR G4 SUV for winter.

 

[Snowfan]

Some testing footnotes in this link at the very bottom.

CrossClimate 2 | Michelin

Michelin CrossClimate 2 tire is designed for exceptional performance, all season traction, longer tread life and a quiet ride. Read customer reviews & shop today.

www.michelinman.com

I ordered a 22 CrossTrek Premium manual trans 3 weeks ago with Rockford Fosgate sound and Aero Crossbars. 7 weeks til delivery. I plan to pull the new stock tires and sell them to Discount or Scooby dealer for $200 and throw Michelin CC2's or Falken AT Trail 3PMSF a bit oversized on it. Advice/Opinions welcome.

 

[cantunamunch]

Sidebar: The Jeep dealer wanted to replace all the engine mounts . The independent mechanic laughed at that and pointed to the very much NOT OEM Contis. Yeah.