slidingmike

Putting on skis
Skier
Joined
Nov 3, 2021
Posts
61
Location
Lake Tahoe
I know that DPS claims that Phantom application is permanent, but are they assuming that users will never get a base grind? Or are they saying that it soaks into the entire depth of the base material? (Apologies if this has already been addressed on the previous 48 pages!)
 

PisteOff

Jeff
Skier
Joined
Apr 27, 2017
Posts
1,129
Location
Effen Texas
I know that DPS claims that Phantom application is permanent, but are they assuming that users will never get a base grind? Or are they saying that it soaks into the entire depth of the base material? (Apologies if this has already been addressed on the previous 48 pages!)
It penetrates. Base grind did not affect my performance. They state as much.
 

Sibhusky

Whitefish, MT
Skier
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Posts
4,254
Location
Whitefish, MT
Ski bases prior to pre-season prep, after no summer storage wax, and just a brush with a wire brush.. Strictly wax history. Skis would have had over 140 days on each, zero base grinds. But waxed frequently over their history. Not sure if I could come up with the last wax date, but would have been no more than 60,000 vertical feet of spring snow at this point in the year. Wax clearly protects.
IMG_20181002_131306.jpg
IMG_20181002_131641.jpg
 

PisteOff

Jeff
Skier
Joined
Apr 27, 2017
Posts
1,129
Location
Effen Texas
Ski bases prior to pre-season prep, after no summer storage wax, and just a brush with a wire brush.. Strictly wax history. Skis would have had over 140 days on each, zero base grinds. But waxed frequently over their history. Not sure if I could come up with the last wax date, but would have been no more than 60,000 vertical feet of spring snow at this point in the year. Wax clearly protects. View attachment 190406 View attachment 190407
Man those skis haven’t even encountered a pine needle……. :hail:
 

dovski

Waxing my skis and praying for snow
Skier
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Posts
2,403
Location
Seattle
So I started this thread years ago when both Phantom and Giga glide (the permanent version ) came out. These permanent glides work but not as well as temperature specific wax. I also found that after enough base grinds they lose their properties. Ultimately I went back to waxing as it just felt better and also protected my bases. Liquid paraffin makes this super easy and it is standard routine to spray some on the night before we go skiing. In spring I bring a bottle to the hill and if the snow gets sticky we spray on a coat at the base ... this works surprisingly well.

So while I do think permanent glide solutions are great for people who never wax, for those who do Liquid Paraffin may be a better solution.
 

MissySki

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Oct 8, 2019
Posts
281
Location
MA
Last I skied out East was the Killington Cup 2018. How long has Phantom been on these skis? How long since your last grind in ski days? Looking at your pictures all I can think is nothing you put on them is going to alleviate all of the scratching going on there. You’re definitely wiping out structure at the edge. Maybe a ceramic coating….. :duck:

I’d give them a base grind/tune/wax and monitor. Judging by how scratched up they are I don’t know that anything will fully protect your skis from what is happening. That kind of abrasion is going to nullify wax pretty quick.

I keep going back to your pictures and the more I look at your pictures the more you look base high. I’d bet if you put a base bevel guide and a file across your base you’d peel nothing but poly. You could put a tru-bar, machinist level, scale, or square across your base and see it real quick too. If your base high then your edges aren’t engaging correctly. That would instantly explain the excessive wear you’re seeing at the edge like that.
I’m not base high that I know of, Mike put a tru bar on it when I was there yesterday and didn’t specify it. I assume this would be noticeable performance wise? I do an adult seasonal program and ski with high level instructors most Saturdays and Sundays. I have plenty to work on, but my edging is usually complimented. Would I and/or instructors be able to see something wonky with my edging if that were the case?

I bought the skis in late 2018 and then had Phantom applied at a shop in the fall of 2019 right before the season started. So this is my 5th season with the skis and 4th season with Phantom. I don’t recall when my last base grind was.. Maybe at the start of last season, but not sure. I bring them to SkiMD and he does whatever is needed at that point, sometimes just edges. My skis did not look like they do now at the beginning of this season at all. They have apparently taken a beating with our rough conditions the last couple of months here. Usually I don’t take them out in super early season conditions, but this season we had a really slow start and I got sick of waiting. Like I said previously though, I do ski bumps and trees often in the East. And regardless of time of season there are usually going to be sharks hiding below the surface ready to scratch your skis up here and there. It’s never been exceptionally deep, I’ve never gotten any core shots or anything. They’d surely look way better even with just a coat of wax.
 

MissySki

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Oct 8, 2019
Posts
281
Location
MA
I also found that after enough base grinds they lose their properties.
I wonder if that’s where I’m at currently. This is the first time I’ve started to feel like the glide piece isn’t really there since I had Phantom put on my skis. This is my 4th season with it on my skis. I thought it was supposed to fully penetrate the base, but I was always a bit skeptical of this claim..
 

dovski

Waxing my skis and praying for snow
Skier
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Posts
2,403
Location
Seattle
I wonder if that’s where I’m at currently. This is the first time I’ve started to feel like the glide piece isn’t really there since I had Phantom put on my skis. This is my 4th season with it on my skis. I thought it was supposed to fully penetrate the base, but I was always a bit skeptical of this claim..
An Ode to Phantom ... with apologies to Robert Frost :)

Phantom's first application is gold,
Her hardest hue to hold.
Her waxless application has flow and power;
But only so an hour.
Then you grind and grind and glide subsides.
So Eden sank to grief,
So dawn goes down to day
and your glide slowly goes away
Nothing Phantom can stay.

So buy some new skis today
With fresh wax and structure that says :yeah:
and your phantom issues will go away :micdrop:
 

Shawn

Growing an MCL
Skier
Joined
Aug 14, 2017
Posts
366
Location
Wayne, PA
An Ode to Phantom ... with apologies to Robert Frost :)

Phantom's first application is gold,
Her hardest hue to hold.
Her waxless application has flow and power;
But only so an hour.
Then you grind and grind and glide subsides.
So Eden sank to grief,
So dawn goes down to day
and your glide slowly goes away
Nothing Phantom can stay.

So buy some new skis today
With fresh wax and structure that says :yeah:
and your phantom issues will go away :micdrop:
ChatGPT battle!

Oh Phantom, ski savior true,
With your waxless base treatment, we bid adieu
To messy wax and hours spent,
To keep our skis in perfect bent.

With you, our glide is smooth and true,
Through powder and ice, we ski anew.
No more fuss, no more muss,
Just effortless gliding, with no fuss.

Your DPS technology, so advanced,
Keeps our skis moving, without a glance.
With you on our skis, we fly so high,
Through the mountains, reaching for the sky.

:micdrop::micdrop::micdrop:
 

gratedwasabi

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Jan 11, 2023
Posts
50
Location
Seattle, WA
Hasn't DPS improved the formula since 4 years ago? Ie Phantom 2.0? Or was it always 2.0? Also couldn't application process have something to do with it? I'd imagine there might be a difference between air drying and going in one of their curing stations.
 

PisteOff

Jeff
Skier
Joined
Apr 27, 2017
Posts
1,129
Location
Effen Texas
I’m not base high that I know of, Mike put a tru bar on it when I was there yesterday and didn’t specify it. I assume this would be noticeable performance wise? I do an adult seasonal program and ski with high level instructors most Saturdays and Sundays. I have plenty to work on, but my edging is usually complimented. Would I and/or instructors be able to see something wonky with my edging if that were the case?

I bought the skis in late 2018 and then had Phantom applied at a shop in the fall of 2019 right before the season started. So this is my 5th season with the skis and 4th season with Phantom. I don’t recall when my last base grind was.. Maybe at the start of last season, but not sure. I bring them to SkiMD and he does whatever is needed at that point, sometimes just edges. My skis did not look like they do now at the beginning of this season at all. They have apparently taken a beating with our rough conditions the last couple of months here. Usually I don’t take them out in super early season conditions, but this season we had a really slow start and I got sick of waiting. Like I said previously though, I do ski bumps and trees often in the East. And regardless of time of season there are usually going to be sharks hiding below the surface ready to scratch your skis up here and there. It’s never been exceptionally deep, I’ve never gotten any core shots or anything. They’d surely look way better even with just a coat of wax.
It’s just how it looks in the picture when you zoom in. To me anyways. Just something to look at and eliminate.
 

MissySki

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Oct 8, 2019
Posts
281
Location
MA
Hasn't DPS improved the formula since 4 years ago? Ie Phantom 2.0? Or was it always 2.0? Also couldn't application process have something to do with it? I'd imagine there might be a difference between air drying and going in one of their curing stations.
I know the process went from a two part application to one part? So easier, unsure if the overall outcome also equals a "better" outcome for protective properties in some way? Someone else might have more information on that.

My skis had Phantom applied by a shop with a curing station, and they did a base grind first as I believe is recommended. I assumed this would be better than my doing it at home anyway.
 

henry368

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
Skier
Joined
Jan 25, 2023
Posts
4
Location
CA
Hasn't DPS improved the formula since 4 years ago? Ie Phantom 2.0? Or was it always 2.0? Also couldn't application process have something to do with it? I'd imagine there might be a difference between air drying and going in one of their curing stations.

For the latest version the application process is improved for that the liquid stays on p-tex evenly.

For the results however I can't tell any difference on snow. Changes may only be seen in the lab.
 

Henry

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Sep 7, 2019
Posts
942
Location
Traveling in the great Northwest
I put Phantom Glide (I think it's the 3rd version of the product) on skis this fall. I like the result. One thing...on a chair loading station where the snow is down to the plastic bristle the skis are like they're glued to the bristle, just an odd quirk. On snow they run fine. With the right wax they're a rocket.
 

Jacques

Workin' It on Skis Best I Can
Skier
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Posts
1,484
Location
Bend, OR
I put Phantom Glide (I think it's the 3rd version of the product) on skis this fall. I like the result. One thing...on a chair loading station where the snow is down to the plastic bristle the skis are like they're glued to the bristle, just an odd quirk. On snow they run fine. With the right wax they're a rocket.
If you have Phantom, why wax? "With the right wax they're a rocket." :roflmao::micdrop:
 

Shawn

Growing an MCL
Skier
Joined
Aug 14, 2017
Posts
366
Location
Wayne, PA
If you have Phantom, why wax?
Phantom will provide better performance than no wax at all, which is often the case with skiers who don't wax their skis frequently. However, using the appropriate temperature-specific wax can give you the best performance for that temperature.
 
Top