mogulman

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Now that said it will not prevent your bases from drying out, in fact they will dry out with Phantom and you will need to grind them periodically.
Yeah... DPS responded already and mentioned that. They were going to send me some kind of "polishing pad". I guess I might try that if it worked well from the beginning. Performance for me didn't deteriorate, it has been about the same=not good. I'll see if Level Nine or DPS has any recommendations.

Just bought another pair of skis this week and won't get Phantom on the new pair for sure.
 

nay

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I’m a bunch of years of ski neglect into Phantom v1.0 and my bases are probably dry and I still like it’s stickiness in the lift line and it’s not stickiness in soft snow.

I don’t ski anything but soft snow because that’s utterly pointless, and my intention was to neglect my skis, and I have neglected my skis consistent with my intention, and they keep skiing about the same. I think that was mostly the actual point, despite the environmental marketing.

Sticky spring snow is sticky on everything and nobody is skiing it when it’s bad, so I think the value proposition, generally, remains high.

I suspect there is a correlation between caring obsessively about base condition with caring obsessively about edge condition. Neither are all that important when the snow is the best.
 

pchewn

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I’m a bunch of years of ski neglect into Phantom v1.0 and my bases are probably dry and I still like it’s stickiness in the lift line and it’s not stickiness in soft snow.

I don’t ski anything but soft snow because that’s utterly pointless, and my intention was to neglect my skis, and I have neglected my skis consistent with my intention, and they keep skiing about the same. I think that was mostly the actual point, despite the environmental marketing.

Sticky spring snow is sticky on everything and nobody is skiing it when it’s bad, so I think the value proposition, generally, remains high.

I suspect there is a correlation between caring obsessively about base condition with caring obsessively about edge condition. Neither are all that important when the snow is the best.

I've got the 1.0 on 3 pairs of skis that I applied myself and I follow your use pattern. Except I do ski in bad snow sometimes (wet, firmly frozen, etc).

I have one pair of Fischer skis that I had the shop put on Phantom 2.0 and it just is not working as well as my other skis. These are the shortest/narrowest of my skis so that may be a factor. I wax these skis and consider the Phantom to be useless on these.
 

gilligan

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PSA: DPS has Phantom on sale for $60. I’ve been on the fence but for that price I think I’ll bite and apply it to some Enforcer 104’s I just bought.

 
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Polo

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PSA: DPS has Phantom on sale for $60. I’ve been on the fence but for that price I think I’ll bite and apply it to some Enforcer 104’s I just bought.

My daughter skis the Enforcer 104 Free. I had the Phantom 2.0 treatment done to a new set of 104 Free before the season started. She's a former ski racer and is very familiar with how a well prepped/waxed ski feels and not only does she love the Enforcer 104 Free but said the base treatment just got better every time she skied them. She also skis a Santa Ana 93 and 100 that have always been hand waxed. With regard to glide she thought the hand waxed skis were definitely better until the ones with the Phantom treatment got a few days on them then she said it was very difficult to tell which was better. Also had a set of Head Kore 93's treated with Phantom 2.0 those didn't get skied quite as much but her comments were the same with regard to glide, the more they were skied the better they felt.
 

Teumie

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So I started reading all posts of this threat until page 28 or so and then I started skipping some pages ...

I have a pair of new skis (I guess they are factory waxed or whatever) and I dont own any waxing gear (yet) and even though I think I would like the waxing aspect in reality I probably don't have the time for it.
So from reading all this it looks like this phantom stuff would work really well for me.

Anyone have experience in Europe?
Where to order? (if I order through DPS I am sure I will have to pay another €100 import and handling fees)
any good shops that have the curing station? (The dps website lists a few but when I visit their website it doesnt have anything).

I'll be around Geneva early Jan and Austria late Feb, so if I could have it sorted on either of those trips that would be great.

I assume as I have new skis the cleaning/stone grounding could be minimal and the DIY option could be valid (in which case I'll probably wait till spring for some UV)?
Still leaves me with the challenge of getting the stuff, google doesn't really have european shops that sell it ...

thanks
 

James

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So I started reading all posts of this threat until page 28 or so and then I started skipping some pages ...

I have a pair of new skis (I guess they are factory waxed or whatever) and I dont own any waxing gear (yet) and even though I think I would like the waxing aspect in reality I probably don't have the time for it.
So from reading all this it looks like this phantom stuff would work really well for me.

Anyone have experience in Europe?
Where to order? (if I order through DPS I am sure I will have to pay another €100 import and handling fees)
any good shops that have the curing station? (The dps website lists a few but when I visit their website it doesnt have anything).

I'll be around Geneva early Jan and Austria late Feb, so if I could have it sorted on either of those trips that would be great.

I assume as I have new skis the cleaning/stone grounding could be minimal and the DIY option could be valid (in which case I'll probably wait till spring for some UV)?
Still leaves me with the challenge of getting the stuff, google doesn't really have european shops that sell it ...

thanks
Applied, €150, Netherlands:
 

Teumie

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Applied, €150, Netherlands:
ah cool, thanks.
I mailed them, see what they have to say.
It's a 2 hour drive so 4 hours drive (300km) +€150 fee ...
Guess in the long run its still cheaper and will save me a lot of waxing gear, time and cost

For those in the know: what is the best way to store them over summer? does it require like a summer wax or you just leave it as is and brush it next season?
 

cantunamunch

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ah cool, thanks.
I mailed them, see what they have to say.
It's a 2 hour drive so 4 hours drive (300km) +€150 fee ...
Guess in the long run its still cheaper and will save me a lot of waxing gear, time and cost

OTOH, €150 buys most if not all of what you'd need for your first season of regular waxing. Two seasons, if you just buy a budget iron and budget wax and don't immediately spend on 'the best'.


For those in the know: what is the best way to store them over summer? does it require like a summer wax or you just leave it as is and brush it next season?

You might be overthinking the maintenance-free aspect of Phantom. :) You pay €150 to not worry about it ;)
 

TooNice

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
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Have anyone tried the DPS Phantom for spring park sessions?

Box features excels at scrapping wax off the base, and can get sticky too.

If DPS can maintain the glide on jib features throughout the day, and on kickers after much of the wax has been scrapped off, then this is one application where it can be very handy.

You don't need to be the fastest for park, but you need to be consistently fast enough throughout the day to clear the knuckle even at the end of the day when much of the wax application is done.

Thanks!
 

pete

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OTOH, €150 buys most if not all of what you'd need for your first season of regular waxing. Two seasons, if you just buy a budget iron and budget wax and don't immediately spend on 'the best'.




You might be overthinking the maintenance-free aspect of Phantom. :) You pay €150 to not worry about it ;)
I'd want to wax or coat the metal edges with something, at least in a more humid environment - yes?

I didn't seal a few of mine one year (not DPS), they got staining on the edges. They're stored in midwest basement that's dehumidified but still developed spots
 

MissySki

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So I’ve had Phantom on my daily driver Sheeva 9 for probably 4 seasons now and have been skiing them for 5. In the beginning I still waxed them a bit at home too, but eventually I took to just leaving them alone beyond bringing them to the shop when needing work on my edges or a base grind etc. This was admittedly in contrast to what the person who tunes my skis recommended, he is not as into the whole Phantom product as others I’ve spoken to. I’m in MA and take my skis to SkiMD which I know some others on this site also do. Mike is awesome and does a great job tuning, obviously.

Yesterday I took my skis in and he asked me again if I was also interested in waxing at home. And I again said that I do for my other skis, but don’t on those since they have Phantom applied. For the first time he broke it down further and specifically said that while having Phantom might keep them gliding, it doesn’t offer any protection to the bases at all. He said that I’m wearing out my bases, especially nearest my edges from the abrasion of manmade snow, and that it would be much more protected if I waxed them regularly.

So this is the first I’ve ever been told that.. Is that true? Have others experienced damage to their bases if you are foregoing waxing with Phantom and ski on manmade snow most of the time? Should I be waxing with Phantom or instead of using Phantom at all then? It seemed like such a nice set it and forget it maintenance free type of thing, but perhaps that was too good to be true without some sort of caveat.. I’m not overly concerned about the current skis I’m talking about as they have a ton of days on them overall from 5 seasons and are likely to hit rock ski status by next year.. but just wondering what to do with a future daily driver and whether Phantom is actually worth it or not. Or if I do Phantom if I should still wax as usual..
 

cantunamunch

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This part seems overstated.

If Phantom makes skis glide better, then doesn't that mean it reduces friction?

Arguably.

And if it reduces friction, then doesn't that mean it reduces wear to the bases?

Snow reduces friction on soil. Does snow reduce wear on soil?

Put another way, I can sandpaper a super-low-friction Teflon AFD with no problem whatsoever.
Put yet another way, a Tyvek suit will shred in a motorcycle crash.
 
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Shawn

Growing an MCL
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Snow reduces friction on soil. Does snow reduce wear on soil?
giphy.gif
 

cantunamunch

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Posted in fun, I know but, believe it or not, substrate tear-out friction was not really understood until a bunch of weirdos at Kodak and Xerox started looking into it in the very late 80s, unpaid and on their own time. HTF were their laser print drums getting worn?
 

gratedwasabi

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Two of the better ski shops near me don't like Phantom either but, to be honest, I think it's more of a "rejecting the new" mentality than anything.

In my experience this year Phantom seems as good as a regular all temp hand wax. It does take a few hours of skiing to fully break in.

You can always wax on top of it, so if you aren't satisfied you're just out $100 but not ruining your skis or anything.
 

Doug Briggs

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I've been asking people in this thread about 'base burn' after extended use of Phantom. While some have responded it hasn't been very clear about the condition of the bases.. If 'base burn' isn't happening, then that's great. If it is, then Phantom isn't doing the protecting that Mike at SkiMD is referring to.

Images of bases including time since last grind and/or wax would be elucidating.

Edited: If you wax your skis on top of Phantom, send photos from just before you wax. Also not the frequency of waxing as I (as well as others, I presume) are interested in the effects of skiing on skis with Phantom without waxing. We all know that waxing will help prevent burn as well as mask it. Waxing doesn't fix base burn, only stone grinding (or belt sanding, ew) can fix base burn be physically removing it from the ski.
 
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