Sharing/Selling passes?

[crosscountry]

And do they even need RIFD? Doesn't the ticket have a unique bar code? If it's a flex ticket there's at least a time stamp. Why not add a photo of the person buying the ticket and their payment info.. If it was bought via a pre paid reservation.. payment info is there...

but, but, but...

The person could have been buying multiple tickets. What good does identifying who paid for the ticket do?

 

[Wendy]

Here's another one I've heard folks talking about. Some resorts offer special "shop passes" to ski shops in town to use to test skis and stuff like that. They're transferrable to be used by any shop employee. Sometimes those are loaned out to friends of shop employees. I haven't been the beneficiary of one of those arrangements but I've ridden a lift with someone who was skiing under that arrangement..

I used to use one of those shop passes when I worked for the shop. I did have to show my driver’s license. Not sure if they verified I was an employee.

 

[dovski]

but, but, but...

The person could have been buying multiple tickets. What good does identifying who paid for the ticket do?

Guys that is not how digital tickets work. You have build a profile for each person you are buying a ticket for. You the. Get an RFID card linked to their profile. We have a family profile Boyne, Alterra and Vail all from past ski trips. Every time we go back to any of these resorts they pull up our profile and add credits etc. based on what is purchased. Some resorts let you commerce enable the pass, this is great because if needed my kids can by food or hot chocolate while on the hill. So it really has nothing to do with who is paying for the ticket but the profile linked to the ticket.

in fact if resorts wanted to they could use the RFID tags to track your movement through the resort. We already see some resorts using these profiles to validate vaccination status at resorts that are subject to vaccine mandates for indoor dining… etc. Bottom line is that big brother is watching lol

 

[crgildart]

Guys that is not how digital tickets work. You have build a profile for each person you are buying a ticket for.

but, but, but...

The person could have been buying multiple tickets. What good does identifying who paid for the ticket do?

Dovski is correct. I prepaid for tickets last month and I had to enter full info for myself and the other ticket user.. Name, age, sex, etc.. All they really need to close the loop would be a photo snapped at the ticket window when the tickets are picked up.

 

[James]

I’ve had a bunch of kids in lessons who told me their age when asked, “At home I’m six, but here I’m seven.”

 

[dovski]

Dovski is correct. I prepaid for tickets last month and I had to enter full info for myself and the other ticket user.. Name, age, sex, etc.. All they really need to close the loop would be a photo snapped at the ticket window when the tickets are picked up.

And if you don't upload a photo to the digital profile they take one of you before issuing your RFID card .... which is a huge pain when you have just driven for 6 hours and really just want to grab your lift tickets and get to your vacation rental so you can soak in the hot tub. It also does not help that mom is sitting int he car with with the kids in a loading zone while you run in .... long story short we now upload everything to our digital profile and try to get the RFID cards mailed to us in advance so we do not have to waste time at the hill.

 

[MikeW Philly]

Guys that is not how digital tickets work. You have build a profile for each person you are buying a ticket for. You the. Get an RFID card linked to their profile. We have a family profile Boyne, Alterra and Vail all from past ski trips. Every time we go back to any of these resorts they pull up our profile and add credits etc. based on what is purchased. Some resorts let you commerce enable the pass, this is great because if needed my kids can by food or hot chocolate while on the hill. So it really has nothing to do with who is paying for the ticket but the profile linked to the ticket.

in fact if resorts wanted to they could use the RFID tags to track your movement through the resort. We already see some resorts using these profiles to validate vaccination status at resorts that are subject to vaccine mandates for indoor dining… etc. Bottom line is that big brother is watching lol

Technically they are already tracking your movement. The epicski RFID at the bottom and top of lifts is used to track vertical.

Obviously minor tracking there but given that they are doing it at that level, I would expect they are doing a whole lot more data analysis across purchase history, run history, vertical history etc... - If they aren’t using that information for better marketing targets I’d be shocked.

 

[Carl]

When I read about Federal Reserve board members and members of congress trading securities with inside knowledge and not getting so much as a slap on the wrist, it's hard for me to condemn someone who resells a day pass that they paid for but are not going to use.

 

[tromano]

I have remained silent on this topic because I don't know enough about it first hand.

I do, however, recall @tromano talking about resorts that actually allowed for parent sharing of a pass to take turns with kids.
I'm not sure what resorts or how often this is practiced, but there is something about it that (to me) encourages a family to stay in the sport with young ones when many parents end up giving up skiing for a few years.

When our kids were all big enough to go to devo team it was the first time in like 6 years Madeline and I were able to ski together on a regular basis. This sounds like the kind of thing I would have been looking into, but I don't remember the details.

 

[crgildart]

What are the odds of better flex ticket options with the diffusion of RIFD cards and gates? If they started offering 2 hour flex tickets many of the reasons people end up sharing a ticket for a couple hours would be gone and everybody's happy. Wintergreen has 4 hour flex tickets already. That's great for day trippers coming from far away. A 2 hour flex would be perfect for a family with a small kids to take shifts in the lodge with the toddlers.

 

[crosscountry]

Dovski is correct. I prepaid for tickets last month and I had to enter full info for myself and the other ticket user.. Name, age, sex, etc.. All they really need to close the loop would be a photo snapped at the ticket window when the tickets are picked up.

I haven't bought day tickets too frequently in recent years. And when I did, it's usually with some sort of coupon or discount code. I don't recall having to provide so much personal information. Or, maybe this is only for Vail? (Alterra?)

Does that means if a group of friends wants to go skiing together, they'll have to buy their own tickets individually? (I'm not going to ask my casual friends how old they are!)

 

[Tricia]

I haven't bought day tickets too frequently in recent years. And when I did, it's usually with some sort of coupon or discount code. I don't recall having to provide so much personal information. Or, maybe this is only for Vail? (Alterra?)

Does that means if a group of friends wants to go skiing together, they'll have to buy their own tickets individually? (I'm not going to ask my casual friends how old they are!)

Our little home mountain Mt Rose asks for the name of the person buying a day ticket.
They use Axexx Lift solutions.

Smarter solutions for a digital planet

Axess AG is a global leader in ticketing and access management systems. Our solutions are used by ski resorts, convention centers, stadiums, amusement parks, museums, and tourist attractions.

www.teamaxess.com

 

[dovski]

I haven't bought day tickets too frequently in recent years. And when I did, it's usually with some sort of coupon or discount code. I don't recall having to provide so much personal information. Or, maybe this is only for Vail? (Alterra?)

Does that means if a group of friends wants to go skiing together, they'll have to buy their own tickets individually? (I'm not going to ask my casual friends how old they are!)

Depends on the resort you go to, but these days at many resorts if you do not buy in advance online they may be sold out when you get to the window. Also a lot of resorts are going digital with RFID passes and these typically require you to build a profile for each pass. The advantage of this is once you have a profile and RFID card you can easily reload it with days ... etc and have that direct to lift experience, what it does not support is hey I want to bring my buddies to the hill with me last minute and they need passes. Vail and Alterra are actively pushing the Ikon and Epic passes, simply put if you do not have one of these passes or buy in advance at a discount the window ticket price is easily $200 plus for a day pass if they have them available ... and they still take your picture. So yes if you and your friends want to go to a resort that uses RFID passes you likely each have to buy your own pass unless one of you wants to have everyone's profiles attached to their account.

There are still a lot of smaller resorts that use hanger passes, but definitely more and more resorts are moving to RFIP cards. Even with hanger passes some resorts require a photo and they lift operator can see your photo when they scan your pass. Bottom line the resorts are investing in technology and that technology makes sharing passes, reselling passes ... or otherwise breaking the resorts rules on who uses a pass much harder to do.

While @crgildart mentions flex passes and charging by runs are possible with RFID, I think we all know that resorts will only do this if it maximizes their revenue. Currently that model seems to be to push folks towards season passes or multi resort passes and to charge a fortune for individual day passes. Given the crowds we now see at many resorts there is likely very little if any motivation to change the formula, if anything they will just increase prices as demand clearly exceeds supply.

I have a friend who keeps on inviting me to join him at Crystal Mountain and continues to offer me his Ikon buddy discount, since I do not have an Ikon pass. Even with his discount I am still paying over $150/day for a lift ticket. Needless to say I am not going to visiting Crystal a ton this year. Truthfully the only time I will be buying day passes is when my kids have a competition at a mountain where we do not have a pass, and in those cases we usually get a special price. In this current ski economy you really need to plan in advance as buying day passes is a losing proposition that will cost you a fortune.

 

[crgildart]

I'm also seeing a trend towards supply of resort season passes going down and/or price going up. Did IKON or Epic pass prices go up at all this season? I thought COVID and the reservations hassle previous seasons held the price down. But, now that seems to be mostly over, no more reservations everywhere, I suspect pass prices are going up... at the very least tracking with inflation next season..

 

[crgildart]

Does that means if a group of friends wants to go skiing together, they'll have to buy their own tickets individually? (I'm not going to ask my casual friends how old they are!)

I bought two tickets in advance online a couple weeks ago. As mentioned I entered the demographic info for both of us. But, when they handed me the two tickets.. They weren't individualized... i.e. they didn't say this is for dad and this is for college kid son.. So I suspect the info is only at the group purchaser reaccept level.. i.e. all the tickets scan to the full group data. So, not as customized at the individual level yet. Those were wicket tickets though. I haven't bought RIFD for multiple people yet, only myself and at the window..

 

[MikeW Philly]

I'm also seeing a trend towards supply of resort season passes going down and/or price going up. Did IKON or Epic pass prices go up at all this season? I thought COVID and the reservations hassle previous seasons held the price down. But, now that seems to be mostly over, no more reservations everywhere, I suspect pass prices are going up... at the very least tracking with inflation next season..

Epic dropped it’s price. Ikon more or less stayed flat.

With the bad press and impact of VR stock it seems unlikely Epic will go up by any large amount next year. Ikon, I wouldn’t be surprised if they do a bit but they seem to be moving into other options like bundling vacations/travel advisory. Hard to say.

Eventually prices will go up but I’d expect something like 8-10% for inflation next year.

 

[Nobody]

Some resort here in Italy is trying to move away from the Season passes / Day passes dichotomy, for a number of reasons.
Season passes are viewed as not, finacially, convenient to them (the lift operators), since it usually takes 14 to 17 days to get even with the money invested, and usually season passes owners tend to ski at least 50+ days per season...
On the other hand a day pass is perceived as not convenient by the skiers. So a "busienss model" of "pay per use" is coming up. Using apps of different makers (even Apple pay in some cases), directly linked to ones credit card (which has rfid after all). One "interesting" , in quotes because to me it is not, option offered at my home mountain, and at others, is to use the "Telepass Pay app". Same app used to pay parkings and such in the city, same app that is associated to the "telepass" device (an "RFID" device used to pay the toll on the highways). The model makes so that the more one is skiing, the less will pay, until after , I don't remember exactly homw many day, basically it becomes "free". Someone did some math and well, it is not so convenient compared to a season pass, as the total amount of money paid will be higher. Still, if one is not going to ski 50+ or 100 days per season, it might be convenient. Of course such models imply that a person must be id'd and registered, so not many chances to swap, resell, share passes...

 

[teejaywhy]

Guys that is not how digital tickets work. You have build a profile for each person you are buying a ticket for. You the. Get an RFID card linked to their profile. We have a family profile Boyne, Alterra and Vail all from past ski trips. Every time we go back to any of these resorts they pull up our profile and add credits etc. based on what is purchased. Some resorts let you commerce enable the pass, this is great because if needed my kids can by food or hot chocolate while on the hill. So it really has nothing to do with who is paying for the ticket but the profile linked to the ticket.

in fact if resorts wanted to they could use the RFID tags to track your movement through the resort. We already see some resorts using these profiles to validate vaccination status at resorts that are subject to vaccine mandates for indoor dining… etc. Bottom line is that big brother is watching lol

And I hate it.

It was funny though, we visited Park City on my wife's birthday about 4 years ago. That's when I first encountered the new-to-me experience of having to give up your personal info to buy a one day lift ticket. Anyway, every time they scanned my wife's ticket that day, the scanner played "Happy Birthday" and the lifties would all announce "Happy birthday Kendra!"

 

[Nobody]

Not really on topic, but ...I still get "Happy Birthday" and "Merry Christmas" cards (not e-cards, real paper cards) from two shops in Austria, one in Galtuer, after 20+ years that I've been last there and a second in Kaprun, where I have not been since 2018...

 

[dovski]

Some resort here in Italy is trying to move away from the Season passes / Day passes dichotomy, for a number of reasons.
Season passes are viewed as not, finacially, convenient to them (the lift operators), since it usually takes 14 to 17 days to get even with the money invested, and usually season passes owners tend to ski at least 50+ days per season...
On the other hand a day pass is perceived as not convenient by the skiers. So a "busienss model" of "pay per use" is coming up. Using apps of different makers (even Apple pay in some cases), directly linked to ones credit card (which has rfid after all). One "interesting" , in quotes because to me it is not, option offered at my home mountain, and at others, is to use the "Telepass Pay app". Same app used to pay parkings and such in the city, same app that is associated to the "telepass" device (an "RFID" device used to pay the toll on the highways). The model makes so that the more one is skiing, the less will pay, until after , I don't remember exactly homw many day, basically it becomes "free". Someone did some math and well, it is not so convenient compared to a season pass, as the total amount of money paid will be higher. Still, if one is not going to ski 50+ or 100 days per season, it might be convenient. Of course such models imply that a person must be id'd and registered, so not many chances to swap, resell, share passes...

Skiing in Europe is very different than the US especially when it comes to lift tickets. When I was in Verbier it felt more like I was buying a Euro rail pass than lift ticket as my pass covered 12 regions and I a could actually ski to different towns. In some parts of the Alps you can ski to different countries. The cost of my two day lift ticket was about $125 which is incredibly reasonable compared to major U.S. resorts some of which charge $250/day. At the typical resort in my area 4-5 daily tickets = the cost of a season pass or multi resort pass. Skiing is more expensive in the US than anywhere else in the world.