The Dangers of Skiing Off Piste In Europe

[Sibhusky]

UPDATE: Flathead County Sheriff Brian Heino has confirmed with MTN News that one person died as a result of this afternoon's tree well incident near Whitefish Mountain Resort.

 

[Fuller]

There's a few cliff signs there now, but in the fog they could be missed. These days there's a chair there, so it shouldn't be quite so much of a surprise. Years ago someone went off a cliff in the fog, broke his back. He "thought he knew where he was".

But I've seen people jump those things while I've been riding on the chair and somehow not slam into the trees just in front of the base of it.

Someone hucked the East Rim Cliff today, didn't see it happen but the tracks were there.

 

[PowHog]

Another great piece about why to avoid Europe at all cost.....

Source: https://www.skicoupons.com/winter/5-reasons-ski-north-american-vs-european-resorts/

5 Reasons to Ski North American vs. European Resorts

The French have their champagne, but we’ve got Champagne Powder ®
It’s not just a brand, but a for-reals thing, and North American ski resorts get lots of it. Skiers are hooked on carving through the legendary dry fluffy white stuff in Steamboat, Banff and many other regions up and down the Rocky Mountain range. On average, U.S. and Canadian ski resorts receive more annual snowfall consistently throughout the season than European resorts. And if there isn’t enough snow at one, just drive down the highway and choose from a handful of others, because in North America, we’ve got infrastructure like that.



Orderly lift lines vs. free-for-all
When you’re dealing with crowds, orderly lines work – take voting lines, car lines and lift lines. Getting on a chair at a European resort is something to behold, but not a good thing to experience. The ski hordes in Europe dwarf the largest resort crowds in America. Described as chaotic at best, it’s every man, woman and child for themselves in the Euro lift areas, and you may get pole-checked in the process. Fore!

Ski more runs before 10AM than most ski in Europe all day
Efficiency is as American as baseball. While Europeans are wrapping up their breakfast event before they hit the trails with their posse, Americans have checked the kids in ski school and have made several runs down the slope. And with the efficient way that high-tech chairlifts like the heated bubbles at Okemo make ascending the vertical a smooth 6.5-minute-ride, youhttps://skicoupons-11018.kxcdn.com/...224631_Happy-smiling-woman-with-snowboard.jpg
can lap the mountain faster than a Maserati on the Autobahn.

Service is our middle name
If you didn’t know, the “S” in USA stands for service when it comes to ski. We’ve got corduroy runs, snow-making superpowers, high tech lifts and apps with maps that track your stats. Let’s not forget the on-mountain services such as friendly ski instructors and, and oh yeah, ski patrols who show up in a flash when your life is at stake. The mega resorts like Vail and Park City offer the latest and greatest in ample lodging and dining, so much so they are a favored for World Cup events and Olympics. Even heli and cat skiing are easily accessed. Although the historical sites in Europe are intriguing, at the end of the day, I’d rather have working hot water in my chalet.

Barbeque
Fine dining has its place, but after a day of carving and turning down the slopes in high altitude, there’s nothing like a steaming hot plate of pure cowboy protein to replenish the bod. Yee-haw!

Did I forget anything? What do you like most about North American ski areas?


Oh yes lady, you definitely did and left out:

- Much higher elevated timberline greatly helps with orientation on foggy weather days.
- Tree skiing much better in NA, in Europe it is often prohibited.
- Heli skiing widely prohibited in Europe.
- Everything in-bounds in NA is avi patrolled, whether groomed or not - a much better concept in terms of safety. In Europe only groomers are safe to ride.
- Resort layouts on an average much more functional in NA. European functional resorts like in France display the charm of a defect fridge.
- The challenging runs in Jackson, Grand Targhee, Telluride and Snowbird are unrivalled by any in-bound runs in European resorts. Europe having double blacks is a mere myth.
- après ski parties in Europe are mostly attended by smelly, chain-smoking, farting people who run you over on their final stretch down when wasted - not a good thing to experience.
- Ski patrol in NA resorts are omnipresent and keep rowdy speed junkies like me in check by pulling passes.
- The on-mountain food in Europe is way overrated.
- in general NA resorts provide a much better bang for the buck.

 

[Rod9301]

Let me guess, the author has a vested interest in keeping skiers in the US.

What a bunch of crap.

 

[fatbob]

Well every stereotype shoehorned into an article that overeggs it significantly on the NA plus column. But I guess it is written satirically because I don't think enyone could compare pretty dull NA après with average Euro or fail to appreciate that inbounds runs at (big name US resort) are not the pinnacle of skiing aspiration.

Let's be clear I think people who write off skiing in NA are equally naive but that piece misses the mark on both bombast and satire.

 

[Idris]

OK, I'll bite
.
First one fact, skiing in Europe is an everyman sport, not the elitist sport it is in the USA (there are exeptions to this both ways round) - To prove this there is more skiing in the Tarentaise Valley than in the USA (by skier capacity).

- Much higher elevated timberline greatly helps with orientation on foggy weather days.

? Most resorts (yeah not the Giant ones in the Tarentaise) are below treeeline, European skiing is generaly further north and at lower altitude than Colorado so it all equals out.

- Tree skiing much better in NA, in Europe it is often prohibited.

It is Not prohobited at least in any resort I've ever been to or know much about.

- Heli skiing widely prohibited in Europe.

Not prohibited anywhere - In france there are no agreed landing zones so there is nowhere do drop off any heliskiers - all the terrain that was heliskied in the 60's n 70's is full of ski randonee people anyway. Aosta valley has more heli drop sites than Colorado

- Everything in-bounds in NA is avi patrolled, whether groomed or not - a much better concept in terms of safety. In Europe only groomers are safe to ride.

Only safer inside your little play pen - USA has nothing larger than a medium (yes offical term) resort anyway.

- Resort layouts on an average much more functional in NA. European functional resorts like in France display the charm of a defect fridge.

Er no, look at current situation in Tahoe.

- The challenging runs in Jackson, Grand Targhee, Telluride and Snowbird are unrivalled by any in-bound runs in European resorts. Europe having double blacks is a mere myth.

Don't think you have skied in Flaine or PDS let alone Verbier or many other resorts - Nothing challenging is allowed in Jackson inbounds......oh

- après ski parties in Europe are mostly attended by smelly, chain-smoking, farting people who run you over on their final stretch down when wasted - not a good thing to experience.

Sorry the French may stink, but most NA resorts I've visited stunk of Drugs as well as all of the above + drink driving is Mch worse in NA resorts than Europe

- Ski patrol in NA resorts are omnipresent and keep rowdy speed junkies like me in check by pulling passes.

Ski patrol in Europe is rescue + snow saftey, not police. No company can give their staff police type powers. We have actual police for that.

- The on-mountain food in Europe is way overrated.

Sorry, which planet are you from? I've skied Aspen and the food was high end fast food that would not be consided edible by the cheapest cafe in Courmayeur!

- in general NA resorts provide a much better bang for the buck.

By what metric? If you are comparing apples with apples - Les Orres vs Vail (both about the same size) - €38 vs $140 ??

I've skied 3 winters and 50+ resorts in NA 20+ winters in Europe and 100+ resorts

Each to their own ideas I guess, but if anyone thinks I'm full of ....... the same challenge as I used to give back in the day at Powmag - You pick the date and time, the meeting place is the bridge on the Aiguille du Midi

 

[Crank]

NA doesn't have places like the Aguille du Midi unless you take a helicopter and even then it would be very hard to get that much vertical in 1 shot.

European, at least French, ski patrol will bill you for their services. You can buy insurance with your lift ticket.

Skied plenty of low visibility here and there.

Skied tons of trees in one section of Val d'Isere and had them almost to myself.

Comparing NA après to European après is amateur hour vs. world class professionals.

 

[PowHog]

OK, I'll bite
........
Each to their own ideas I guess, but if anyone thinks I'm full of ....... the same challenge as I used to give back in the day at Powmag - You pick the date and time, the meeting place is the bridge on the Aiguille du Midi

Thanks for biting Tom and for a good, sound barking back. Another proof we Euros can truly depend on you when it matters.

Also challenge for a second meet-up at the bridge on the Aiguille du Midi herewith greatly accepted, hope we have better luck with the conditions that time around.

For the records, the piece I quoted was from a commercial platform advertising NA skiing. And while I consider it ok to promote the home team over any potential competitor from a commercial perspective that one - as serious as it was meant - was definitely over the top. The part about no working hot water in Europe was where I really lost it, therefore I just couldn't resist further stirring the pot in hopes you folks would further bite into the piece of meat.

Honestly my personal experience in NA is limited to the stateside Rockies, Tahoe area and Alaska (aside from Aleyaska latter doesn't really count when talking resorts). Snow wise I found it can be a hit or miss on both sides of the pond and when comparing snow levels in same altitudes you often won't find that much difference at all. But individual resort elevation surely helps in general.

 

[Jacob]

Just to add to what @Idris mentioned, the comment about the number of runs is very misleading. In most NA resorts, you would have to do multiple runs to get the same vertical as a single run in most resorts in the Alps. A single run in the Alps can also cover a large horizontal distance as well. So given the size differences, counting the number of runs is pointless.

It’s like the scene in LOTR where Legolas brings down the giant elephant single-handedly and Gimli says “That still only counts as one.”

Also, the comment about snowfall is misleading. In most of the places that I’ve skied, it takes longer for the snow to get skied out in the Alps. I remember a couple of days at Snowbird when the snow got skied out while it was dumping down. On the other hand, in St. Anton I can usually find some decent lift-served turns even a couple of days after a storm.

So, snowfall totals don’t always equate to powder turns.

 

[PowHog]

Just to add to what @Idris mentioned, the comment about the number of runs is very misleading. In most NA resorts, you would have to do multiple runs to get the same vertical as a single run in most resorts in the Alps. A single run in the Alps can also cover a large horizontal distance as well. So given the size differences, counting the number of runs is pointless.

What I noticed as well is that in NA it was at least common practice to for example count 3 runs when it is virtually the same run with just 3 different inlets. Your experience may vary though.
Some resorts there also count the highest in-bound spot (you can sometimes hike to) as top elevation whereas in Europe it's always the highest lift-accessed spot.

 

[Rod9301]

And that's what we ski when the lifts are not running.

 

[Tex]

Orderly lift lines vs. free-for-all
When you’re dealing with crowds, orderly lines work – take voting lines, car lines and lift lines. Getting on a chair at a European resort is something to behold, but not a good thing to experience. The ski hordes in Europe dwarf the largest resort crowds in America. Described as chaotic at best, it’s every man, woman and child for themselves in the Euro lift areas, and you may get pole-checked in the process. Fore!

That is one of the first things I noticed in Europe (mine you many years ago), they did not have lines that alternate, it is just a big funnel, it reminded me funneling cattle into a single line to brand them. And the kids were the worst, cutting in fornt of everyone, slipping by you, between your leg...When ever a kid did that, I would grab their hat and throw it to the back of the line.

 

[anders_nor]

après ski in scandinavia > rest of europe by far.

Only problem with scandinavia is we cant do multiple thousand of meters vert in a single run, and gotto tour a lot of the mountains to get the really cool stuff + avalanches.

I usually do 2 trips to austria, france, swiss etc per season, but quite often skiiing at home in norway is just... better honestly. but it is pretty cool to get away. The swiss has some really cool hidden places with the best raclette, but damn you if you speak loud in the hotel hallway at 21:00, thats illegal. Austrians are more chill by far. The french are french.

 

[Jacob]

What I noticed as well is that in NA it was at least common practice to for example count 3 runs when it is virtually the same run with just 3 different inlets. Your experience may vary though.
Some resorts there also count the highest in-bound spot (you can sometimes hike to) as top elevation whereas in Europe it's always the highest lift-accessed spot.

I’m with you on the slope count.

That’s 3 blue slopes. No it’s not. It’s one face with two strips of trees down the middle of it. Or basically, it’s one face with three possible lines you can ski.

I like the fact that a lot of European piste maps list the elevations of the various bases and top lift stations. It really helps me understand the size of the terrain in the different parts of the areas.

 

[Jacob]

That is one of the first things I noticed in Europe (mine you many years ago), they did not have lines that alternate, it is just a big funnel, it reminded me funneling cattle into a single line to brand them. And the kids were the worst, cutting in fornt of everyone, slipping by you, between your leg...When ever a kid did that, I would grab their hat and throw it to the back of the line.

That’s pretty much spot on. And the strategy for getting through the funnel is to do what the cows do: stay close to the person in front of you and keep shuffling forward.

Once you understand that, lift lines in Europe are much easier to deal with. Although having some experience with rush hour on public transport in major cities also helps.

 

[James]

And with the efficient way that high-tech chairlifts like the heated bubbles at Okemo make ascending the vertical a smooth 6.5-minute-ride, you
can lap the mountain faster than a Maserati on the Autobahn.

Lol. Not even that funny nor creative. Completely absurd.
As to Okemo, I once had someone ask me at the top which trails they should ski.
Do you want moguls?
- no
Ok, if you take this one you’ll get a nice view towards the North, see Killington and maybe Mt Washington. If you take that other one you’ll see Magic, Mt Snow, Stratton, and a little of Bromley.
I went on for a bit like that.
After going over the sights of several trails, I stopped. Then they said:
- Yes, but what are they like to ski??
Oh, they’re pretty much all the same.

As to trail counts, at least in the East my rule is divide by 3. Small places no. I pay no attention to trail counts. I barely know how many we have, no idea how many Stowe has nor Killington.

Counting pistes in many places in Europe is kind of ridiculous. How many pistes does the top half of Les Grand Montets in Cham have? Two? Yep, better stay at Okemo.
I suppose, if one is beginner-intermediate numbers of skiable blues could matter.

I haven’t skied much of Europe. Which is itself something different if you include Eastern. Then there’s Scandinavia and Finland. Many varied places.
The thing is, there’s so many places in just Western Europe we’ve never even heard of.

Seems to me there’s probably a wide range of lift efficiences. I was in a gondola in Verbier with some Brits and they were complaining about the inefficient lift system. “We should go back to France.” They mentioned some large French area as far more efficient. Forget which one. I do think they had a point.

I will say that most NA skiing is pretty efficient. Take lift up, ski down. Since inbounds terrain is controlled, that increases your yield. So, if vert and mileage are your goal, seek out the most efficient Euro resorts. I’m guessing it’s Austria or France. Italy? No idea.

that piece misses the mark on both bombast and satire.

I would agree.

 

[PowHog]

Counting pistes in many places in Europe is kind of ridiculous. How many pistes does the top half of Les Grand Montets in Cham have? Two? Yep, better stay at Okemo.

Seems to me there’s probably a wide range of lift efficiences. I was in a gondola in Verbier with some Brits and they were complaining about the inefficient lift system. “We should go back to France.” They mentioned some large French area as far more efficient. Forget which one. I do think they had a point.

I will say that most NA skiing is pretty efficient. Take lift up, ski down. Since inbounds terrain is controlled, that increases your yield. So, if vert and mileage are your goal, seek out the most efficient Euro resorts. I’m guessing it’s Austria or France. Italy? No idea.

it is indeed difficult to count the above timberline slopes in Europe by NA standards and methods.

As for Verbier being inefficient compared to France I beg to differ. True bottlenecks are the trams up to Mt. Gele or Mt. Fort which, when open, are highly frequented and fall short of capacity at times. The tram up to Gentianes rival the biggest in France's Trois Vallees though and the Funispace up to Attelas (think cable car with each 50 instead of 8 person gondolas) is the most efficient lift I have ever seen capacity wise. I skied France quite a bit and a place like for example Cham is definitely less efficient here.

From what I have seen so far the big Austrian resorts on an average appear to be most efficient due to their high number of modern, detachable, fast running multiple chairs lift system.

 

[fatbob]

Re efficiency I feel the same way about Verbier and CHX compared to say 3V.

But I think the problem is largely in the physical geography - the 3V are as the name suggests 4 adjacent valleys with sensible ridges between them so bang a lift up each way over each cresting point and its relatively easy to connect with decent downhill drops. Verbier despite the 4V moniker feels more spikey with lifts running up individual peaks and less obvious skiing from ridges if the lifts were routed differently. The Arlberg is similar the geography is a barrier to what would be a more effective layout and in some ways it's pseudomiraculous they have linked what they have.

I have to confess I don't really like cable cars. Cramped, sweaty etc and so unreliable on timings (it's hard to lap one efficiently even on days without significant lines) too fast and you're hanging around for next bin to fill, too slow and you're relegated to second bin or worse. But there's no doubt they pay back in big vert.

 

[Nathanvg]

To prove this there is more skiing in the Tarentaise Valley than in the USA (by skier capacity).

I've lived in Europe and the US and skied extensively in both so I hope I can provide a perspective. Both regions have their pros/cons and both are defiantly worth visiting. While not greatly written, most of points in the article are accurate regarding the downsides of skiing in Europe. My thoughts on each.

Regarding the quote above, are you suggesting that there are 2,500 lifts in this region. I couldn't figure out where exactly the valley starts/stops, but the assertion seems way off.

- Much higher elevated timberline greatly helps with orientation on foggy weather days.
In general, a much higher percent of European terrain is above timberline which makes white out conditions much harder to deal with. I experienced this challenge often.

- Tree skiing much better in NA, in Europe it is often prohibited.
It was prohibited at many of the places I visited. An example https://skimap.org/data/1005/3788/1609683302jpg_render.jpg (green color coding covers almost all trees as "protection areas") Also, as stated above, much of the skiing is treeless so obviously you can't ski trees that don't exist.

- Heli skiing widely prohibited in Europe.
This is bogus

- Everything in-bounds in NA is avi patrolled, whether groomed or not - a much better concept in terms of safety. In Europe only groomers are safe to ride.
This is accurate. Some people might not care and are happy to ski without avalanche mitigation, others may only ski with mitigation.

- Resort layouts on an average much more functional in NA. European functional resorts like in France display the charm of a defect fridge.
Not sure what they're getting at here. There are charming and ugly ski lodges in both regions.

- The challenging runs in Jackson, Grand Targhee, Telluride and Snowbird are unrivalled by any in-bound runs in European resorts. Europe having double blacks is a mere myth.
True if you value avalanche mitigation double blacks.

- après ski parties in Europe are mostly attended by smelly, chain-smoking, farting people who run you over on their final stretch down when wasted - not a good thing to experience.
I think this one was a joke, right?

- Ski patrol in NA resorts are omnipresent and keep rowdy speed junkies like me in check by pulling passes.
Bogus

- The on-mountain food in Europe is way overrated.
Bogus, this is a personal preference.

- in general NA resorts provide a much better bang for the buck.
Bogus, this is a personal preference regarding what you value.

 

[PowHog]

I've lived in Europe and the US and skied extensively in both so I hope I can provide a perspective. Both regions have their pros/cons and both are defiantly worth visiting. While not greatly written, most of points in the article are accurate regarding the downsides of skiing in Europe.

Thanks for another bite into the bait.

In a honest (but still opinionated) response:

- Timberline and tree skiing
The northern latitude of EU resorts doesn't always make up for lacking elevation, thus on an average longer seasons in a place like Colorado. Scandinavia is the exception here. When comparing snow levels at same altitude @Idris is right though. I noticed forests in EU being often denser than the high elevated NA ones. Tree skiing being prohibited depends on restrictions for natural preservation (wildlife etc.), locally they are in place.
A whiteout at altitude in EU can be more challenging indeed depending on the terrain you happen to be stuck in.

- Heli skiing widely prohibited in EU
No bogus at all! Officially allowed only in Switzerland, Italy and the Austrian Vorarlberg region. Everywhere else prohibited for environmental reasons. Some French operations circumvent limits though by dropping their clients off on the Italian side from where they ski back into France. Heli Skiing

- Challenging runs
Agree with your assessment about avalanche mitigation here. Certainly there is plenty of comparable stuff in EU resorts but the fact alone that pepole ski it regularly doesn't mean it's officially avi controlled.

- On-mountain food
On an average neither better nor worse but different. That said there are indeed mountain huts in EU providing a cuisine unrivaled by NA counterparts.