The Never-Ending Atomic Ski Boot Discussion

[ScottB]

I bought a 2020 vintage at the beginning of this past season and love them. Still working on a "blister" level review that I will post soon. Is that the 2022? it doesn't look like it has the new elastic power strap, that looks like the PS I have on my boot. If it is the new PS, can you undo it and take another pic. I have ordered the new one as a spare part for next year to use on my boots.

 

[anders_nor]

Its the 2021, (I have the 2020 and 2021)

 

[Vinnie]

Hey Matt, Last year I was on Ultra Hawx 115 S (small guy and my shell fit is a 24.5 mondo). On groomers I really liked the progressive flex and the rebound I got out of each turn. However when I got off-piste the boot was so reactive that I felt like I was getting catapulted from one turn to another. I am looking for a damper ride. Wondering if I am overdriving the boot and if I found a men's Hawx 120 or 130 it would have a damper feel. Then again maybe I have it backwards and a stiffer boot would be even more reactive.

If you want damper with more suspension, then you should go with something like the Redster Club Sport 110. You won't be disappointed.

Hey Matt,

After listening to the Blister podcast on boot suspension I got a better handle on flex components of compression and rebound. What I loved about the Hawx Ultra was the compression. You recommended I look at the Redster Club Sport 110, how similar is the compression to the Hawk Ultra? How does it compare?

Thanks

 

[onenerdykid]

Hey Matt,

After listening to the Blister podcast on boot suspension I got a better handle on flex components of compression and rebound. What I loved about the Hawx Ultra was the compression. You recommended I look at the Redster Club Sport 110, how similar is the compression to the Hawk Ultra? How does it compare?

Thanks

Hey Vinnie, comparing both the Hawx Ultra and the Redster CS (of a similar flex rating), you will generally find that the Hawx Ultra is more lively, more energetic and the Redster CS will be damper and more composed. This is due to the Ultra having a thinner wall thickness and therefore requiring a stiffer plastic material to arrive at the same flex (110/115). Stiffer materials are just harder to compress/bend and therefore have more rebound when released. At the beginning of the flex pattern, Hawx Ultra will feel slightly stiffer/more reactive and the Redster 110 will feel a little softer but the Redster will ramp up and probably be stiffer at the end of the flex pattern.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Hey Vinnie, comparing both the Hawx Ultra and the Redster CS (of a similar flex rating), you will generally find that the Hawx Ultra is more lively, more energetic and the Redster CS will be damper and more composed. This is due to the Ultra having a thinner wall thickness and therefore requiring a stiffer plastic material to arrive at the same flex (110/115). Stiffer materials are just harder to compress/bend and therefore have more rebound when released. At the beginning of the flex pattern, Hawx Ultra will feel slightly stiffer/more reactive and the Redster 110 will feel a little softer but the Redster will ramp up and probably be stiffer at the end of the flex pattern.

I appreciate your detailed and informative explanations.

 

[ScottB]

Reposting a Redster Club Sport boot review I put in the gear forum, seems appropriate for this thread also. This boot should be on a lot of skiers radar and there are some really good deals on left overs right now on the web.

 

[Vinnie]

Wow. Great review. You compared the rebound of the CS and Hawk Ultra XTD.. How does the compression compare?

 

[ScottB]

The compression of the XTD is softer and a lot more springy feeling. It's not as progressive feeling as the CS, either. There is more range of motion in the XTD flex, or to say it another way, since it's softer, I can flex it more. It feels like the boot is distorting more and I am stressing it a lot more. It's just not as solid feeling as the CS. Kind of what you expect with thinner walls and stiffer plastic. Both in compression and rebound the XTD feels springy and the CS feels damp. The XTD flexes well for a touring boot but as my daily driver (inbounds) I would want a more solid feeling boot. Keep in mind I weigh 240 lbs, some one weighing 175 may feel the XTD is plenty solid in 130 flex. They will still feel the springiness, that is the nature of the girilimid plastic used for lightweight.

 

[Aquila]

@ScottB Awesome review, I actually wandered onto this thread thinking about asking questions about that very boot!

@onenerdykid I was wondering how the widths compare between some of the redster line of boots, and the hawx ultra alpine boots, especially around the ankle and heel area.

I've been skiing the hawx ultra 115sw (@22.5) for the past 2.5 seasons and while they're great boots, I have pesky narrow bony feet and they're still too wide for me. We've sort of somewhat solved the problem with aftermarket liners and padding the heel area more, but my fitter commented that I'll probably end up in some sort of race boot in the end. He also commented it will be easier to carve out some room for my haglunds deformity in a boot with a thicker shell. I can't try on a bunch of race boots here because they tend to be special orders from overseas (just new zealand things).

I'm not sure how last width actually relates to heel hold etc. Is e.g. the 96mm club sport 110 significantly narrower in the heel/ankle area than the hawx ultra, especially in a 22.5? Should I be looking at something even narrower, or is the difference in heel/ankle width significant enough?

Thanks!

 

[ScottB]

I am sure ONK will respond back, but I think I can add some insight as well. I have always struggled to find a boot narrow enough for my long, skinny feet that wasn't too short. I also have the Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD which has the same last as the regular Ultra. The Redster Club Sport has the same heel pocket as their now discontinued Redster WC race boot. So it has the heel width of a 92mm last race boot. It is definitely narrower than the hawx ultra. My feet can easily feel the difference between the two boots. I had to have a punch done on the CS just forward of the heel for shell contact on my 5th metatarsal styloid process bump (the bump at the ankle end of the long bones that run up to your toes). The rest of the heel pocket fit my foot very snug and feels great. In the hawx ultra XTD and my old Lange RS140 low volume consumer race boot (similar to the CS) I have never needed the punch. Atomic also makes a Redster TI world cup race boot which might have an even narrower heel, ONK could respond to that.

So the simple answer is yes, the Redster line has a narrower heel and ankle area than the hawx ultra boot. The fit around the ankle, as opposed to the heel, is especially narrower on the Redster CS. That is where I notice the biggest difference. The instep is a little lower, the ankle fit a little snugger, and my foot is completely locked in without even buckling the boot, I mostly just snug the buckles so the boot doesn't open up when I flex it. Surprisingly, the boot is very comfortable even though it feels very snug. It just fits my foot shape very well. If you need shell work done, this boot has a thick shell and is made to be altered by grinding or punching, and it is also heat moldable as well. Seems to have all the "custom fit" bells and whistles.

Keep in mind, that if your heel is lifting it is often a sign that the instep of the boot is too high and not holding you into the heel pocket enough. My wife has this problem with her Lange boots and I had to add a heel pad and some more padding around the ankle/instep area. I typically don't get heel lift, but I will say the CS has a lower instep than the Ultra or my Lange RS140, as I can feel the pressure on my instep (any lower and I would have to have some room added) for the first time in my life. Once my foot settles into the boot it goes away, but when I first put it on my feet, I notice the instep is very snug on my foot, borderline too snug. This will really keep your heel planted in the heel pocket and if its too low, you can always heat mold it to relax it to your foot shape.

 

[ScottB]

@Aquila ,
One point I forgot to make and I bet ONK will bring up. For 2022 Atomic has their new professional series of boots and you can buy just the professional liners which are "foam" injection and Mimic heat moldable. This will automatically snug the fit up for your foot wherever it needs to be. They also have three tongues of different volume to dial in the exact instep fit you need. It sounds perfect for you.

The only decision you will need to make, is do you buy just the new liner, or replace the whole boot/liner with a Redster boot? That's a tough call, but I will say now that I have a properly narrow boot with a great liner (Redster CS) I will never go back to a wider boot again. When the shell fit is just right, it makes the liner work much better as well. Its like the whole is better than the sum of its parts.

 

[Aquila]

Thanks so much for the detailed insights @ScottB ! That's handy that you've also had one of the Hawx Ultra boots for comparison (well, the XTD - will take your word that the last is the same, it makes sense). The Redster CS is sounding pretty great - the heel and ankle hold of a 92mm race boot without the extreme toe-crushing last of a 92mm race boot.

Oh yes, my fitter did make a passing mention of the new Atomic liners - sounds really cool! Just looking at the Atomic Professional thread, that softer flexing CS boot might not come in the professional version yet, though my fitter would be ordering a boot in October for it to arrive in April (?), along with the rest of the 22/23 skis etc. Might be that they expand the range by then! At any rate the boot shell itself sounds very promising.

 

[ScottB]

Pretty sure ONK has said the XTD has the same last as the Ulta, he can confirm when he checks in

 

[onenerdykid]

@ScottB Awesome review, I actually wandered onto this thread thinking about asking questions about that very boot!

@onenerdykid I was wondering how the widths compare between some of the redster line of boots, and the hawx ultra alpine boots, especially around the ankle and heel area.

I've been skiing the hawx ultra 115sw (@22.5) for the past 2.5 seasons and while they're great boots, I have pesky narrow bony feet and they're still too wide for me. We've sort of somewhat solved the problem with aftermarket liners and padding the heel area more, but my fitter commented that I'll probably end up in some sort of race boot in the end. He also commented it will be easier to carve out some room for my haglunds deformity in a boot with a thicker shell. I can't try on a bunch of race boots here because they tend to be special orders from overseas (just new zealand things).

I'm not sure how last width actually relates to heel hold etc. Is e.g. the 96mm club sport 110 significantly narrower in the heel/ankle area than the hawx ultra, especially in a 22.5? Should I be looking at something even narrower, or is the difference in heel/ankle width significant enough?

Thanks!

Seriously thorough review, @ScottB - well done!

@Aquila - a Redster CS will be a narrower, lower volume fit compared to the Hawx Ultra. It's heel pocket is 1:1 the same as the (now discontinued) Redster World Cup, but has "more" ankle, navicular, and forefoot space. You could also look at the Redster STI, which is our narrowest & lowest volume boot. This was specifically designed for our female World Cup athletes as it isn't as thick/burly as our standard World Cup racing offer, the Redster TI. The STI might be a little overkill for you, but it's hard to say without being able to see your foot in the boot.

My gut-reaction-suggestion for a perfect set up: Redster CS 110 and a Redster Mimic Professional liner. The liners are built around our V3 Tongue System which allow you to change out the liner tongue for thicker options to further dial in your fit.

 

[jmeb]

It's hard to imagine a cooler way to get a boot recommendation than directly from the dude who runs one of the most successful boot product lines in the industry.

 

[jmeb]

@onenerdykid -- unable to find weight specs on the Hawx Ultra XTD replacement liner. Happen to know if they are available anywhere? I have first gen XTDs (WTR sole) that still have a season or two of touring left in them, but the original liners (orange very thin ones) are toast. Trying to figure out whether to try and find some if there are notable fit / weight / performance benefits or go with tried and true Intuition Pro Tours (which are also a bit cheaper cause Atomic doesn't have proform for NSP ).

 

[onenerdykid]

@onenerdykid -- unable to find weight specs on the Hawx Ultra XTD replacement liner. Happen to know if they are available anywhere? I have first gen XTDs (WTR sole) that still have a season or two of touring left in them, but the original liners (orange very thin ones) are toast. Trying to figure out whether to try and find some if there are notable fit / weight / performance benefits or go with tried and true Intuition Pro Tours (which are also a bit cheaper cause Atomic doesn't have proform for NSP ).

The lightweight orange liner isn't available any longer as a spare part, but the newer Mimic liner should be (once 21/22 stock arrives in the US). With that said, the newer Mimic liner won't nearly be as light or tour as well, so if that is your focus, then I would suggest that you look for something like a Pro Tour.

 

[jmeb]

The lightweight orange liner isn't available any longer as a spare part, but the newer Mimic liner should be (once 21/22 stock arrives in the US). With that said, the newer Mimic liner won't nearly be as light or tour as well, so if that is your focus, then I would suggest that you look for something like a Pro Tour.

Great info -- thanks. For now this is just a touring boot -- except when it goes to Europe and becomes the everything boot.

 

[maxwerks]

Dear forum, I am upgrading from my 2016 Redster FIS 150 and considering the STI 150 lifted. I am active in masters SL racing, 50yo, 170cm 68kg, my feet measure 238mm. My current boot size is MP24/.5 with Zipfit gara liners. My current setup has great heel and midfoot hold and with the memory fit heat molding I created enough room for my wide front foot and pronounced halus valgus. To achieve an even better race fit I am wondering if I should consider sizing down the new STI to a 23,5 shell. Or would that just open a can of bootfitting worms with low return on investment?

 

[LiquidFeet]

Dear forum, I am upgrading from my 2016 Redster FIS 150 and considering the STI 150 lifted. I am active in masters SL racing, 50yo, 170cm 68kg, my feet measure 238mm. My current boot size is MP24/.5 with Zipfit gara liners. My current setup has great heel and midfoot hold and with the memory fit heat molding I created enough room for my wide front foot and pronounced halus valgus. To achieve an even better race fit I am wondering if I should consider sizing down the new STI to a 23,5 shell. Or would that just open a can of bootfitting worms with low return on investment?

This question would better be asked in a separate new thread which you can start here in the bootfitting forum. Then you'll more likely get the attention of our bootfitters.