The Never-Ending Atomic Ski Boot Discussion

[treehugger]

21/22 is an all new mold series. Same geometry, same fit but far more stable and powerful.

Any boot in the Hawx Ultra/Prime/Magna series can be set up as GripWalk or Alpine Norm ISO 5355. If they come as GripWalk, then you just need to get a set of Alpine Norm soles to work with your existing bindings. Much easier than buying new bindings or spending time trying to find an older model that won't ski as well.

Checked on website and didn't realize the soles were only $20-30. Guy at the shop told me $70. Sounds like it's worth getting the 22 version. Thanks.

 

[onenerdykid]

So how is the flex compared to the 19/20 model. Taller and thicker indicates greater leverage but stiffer, at least initially?

Yes - stiffer, more powerful, more stable

 

[JoshOnPoint]

I tried on the Hawx Prime XTD 120s today and they fit great - but looking at the stats the upgrades in the 130s are compelling - the Platinum liner which can be remolded, the improved strap, and especially the lighter weight. My concern is at my size - 5'9" and 165 pounds- a 130 flex is going to be more than I'd prefer. Is there a way to lower the flex, without having a custom boot-fitter do work directly on the shell? I see posts about adjustments other Atomics, with loosening certain bolts but not others, but it's hard to know what the options are on this particular boot.

We have some great boot-fitters here in the town I live (Boulder), but I'd rather not be relying on this as an option out of the gate. Or if I do rely on it, know it is a better option than just going with the 120s.

I do a lot of strength training for skiing and flexing a 130 boot in the store I can do (although not as much as with the 120) - but at 48 years old and no history as racer, I'm concerned after a couples hours on the slopes I'll be regretting not having a more forgiving boot.

Thanks in advance for any tips and advice. ps the podcast you just did on boot making was excellent!

 

[Aquila]

Seriously thorough review, @ScottB - well done!

@Aquila - a Redster CS will be a narrower, lower volume fit compared to the Hawx Ultra. It's heel pocket is 1:1 the same as the (now discontinued) Redster World Cup, but has "more" ankle, navicular, and forefoot space. You could also look at the Redster STI, which is our narrowest & lowest volume boot. This was specifically designed for our female World Cup athletes as it isn't as thick/burly as our standard World Cup racing offer, the Redster TI. The STI might be a little overkill for you, but it's hard to say without being able to see your foot in the boot.

My gut-reaction-suggestion for a perfect set up: Redster CS 110 and a Redster Mimic Professional liner. The liners are built around our V3 Tongue System which allow you to change out the liner tongue for thicker options to further dial in your fit.

Hey again (and thank you so much for this reply, I've thought about it loads since then)! - I've been chatting to my bootfitter recently about this because it's the time of year where they put in orders for boots/skis to arrive prior to the NZ 2022 season. (In fact I think they've already done so, but can still modify the orders.) After some discussion about the options and staring at my feet dimensions, we're definitely going with Atomic Redster - only question is now with the shell - CS 110 vs STI 110. The whole CS setup sounds pretty great to me, but on the flipside, multiple fitters I've chatted to recently think my foot is slim enough to justify an STI. (Visited a couple different shops in a ski town on a recent holiday, in case they had bigger selections of boots to try on - nothing at this time of the season though!) But it's tough without having the boots on hand and I don't actually have the lowest instep, compared to how slim the rest of my foot/heel is. I know my local fitter is going to think about it and chat to the atomic rep and get back to me with a Plan For Boots. I'm interested in knowing this stuff myself as well.

Is there much different in the heel construction between the two - ie thickness of plastic? Do both have some latitude for grinding, as opposed to just stretching, to accommodate bony bumps and lumps? Is the heel width the same?

Is there any/much difference in the instep height between them?

In an ideal world I think we'd just have both on hand and do a shell check with both, but it's a bit inconvenient for my poor fitter who has to buy these boots from overseas with a lead time of many months and may struggle to sell whichever boot I don't pick! (though I still kinda hope he'll just give up and order both, haha)

Great recent blister podcast btw, I listened to the whole thing which livened up my work day a little!

 

[KingGrump]

I tried on the Hawx Prime XTD 120s today and they fit great - but looking at the stats the upgrades in the 130s are compelling - the Platinum liner which can be remolded, the improved strap, and especially the lighter weight. My concern is at my size - 5'9" and 165 pounds- a 130 flex is going to be more than I'd prefer. Is there a way to lower the flex, without having a custom boot-fitter do work directly on the shell? I see posts about adjustments other Atomics, with loosening certain bolts but not others, but it's hard to know what the options are on this particular boot.

We have some great boot-fitters here in the town I live (Boulder), but I'd rather not be relying on this as an option out of the gate. Or if I do rely on it, know it is a better option than just going with the 120s.

I do a lot of strength training for skiing and flexing a 130 boot in the store I can do (although not as much as with the 120) - but at 48 years old and no history as racer, I'm concerned after a couples hours on the slopes I'll be regretting not having a more forgiving boot.

Thanks in advance for any tips and advice. ps the podcast you just did on boot making was excellent!

When it comes to boot flex selection, technique is probably just as important as height and weight. If not more so. Get the one you feel comfortable in. Don't forget the boots will stiffen up out in the cold. IMO, most skiers buy too much boot. A pair of boots that are too stiff will often set back your skill development. A slightly softer boot will allow you to ski with a bit more aggression without being too punishing. The feed back on a overly stiff boot can be very direct.

I am 5'/6", #155, in the winter. I am mostly in steeps, bumps and trees. Been in older Atomic WC 130 Pro for the past few years. Due for a new pair this weekend. I am mostly in steeps, bumps and trees. So you do have the metrics to be on a 130 boot if you wanted to. If you need to soften them. Have a boot fitter trim the saddle in the lower clog. A relatively simple procedure. Don't go the route of removing the bolts on the spine.

Oh, don't worry about being 48. That is a very good age. I should know, I was there about 20 years back.

 

[onenerdykid]

I tried on the Hawx Prime XTD 120s today and they fit great - but looking at the stats the upgrades in the 130s are compelling - the Platinum liner which can be remolded, the improved strap, and especially the lighter weight. My concern is at my size - 5'9" and 165 pounds- a 130 flex is going to be more than I'd prefer. Is there a way to lower the flex, without having a custom boot-fitter do work directly on the shell? I see posts about adjustments other Atomics, with loosening certain bolts but not others, but it's hard to know what the options are on this particular boot.

We have some great boot-fitters here in the town I live (Boulder), but I'd rather not be relying on this as an option out of the gate. Or if I do rely on it, know it is a better option than just going with the 120s.

I do a lot of strength training for skiing and flexing a 130 boot in the store I can do (although not as much as with the 120) - but at 48 years old and no history as racer, I'm concerned after a couples hours on the slopes I'll be regretting not having a more forgiving boot.

Thanks in advance for any tips and advice. ps the podcast you just did on boot making was excellent!

Glad you enjoyed the podcast! If you tried on the 21/22 Prime XTD 120 (grey / blue version) it has a Mimic Gold liner - same heat moldable aspects of the Mimic Platinum liner, but a slightly softer handshake to its fit. The 130 is not only a stiffer boot, but the liner will have a firmer handshake to it.

Softening/stiffening walk-mode boots like the Hawx Prime XTD is not that easy since they just aren't built the same way as a regular alpine boot. So there are no bolts to remove to soften the flex. The flex you buy is pretty much the flex you get without doing some aggressive boot surgery.

Given what you say, it sounds like the 120 will be enough boot for you (and it will stiffen slightly when frozen) and it at least has our Mimic technology in the liner. And you can always get a beefier power strap later on if you want.

 

[onenerdykid]

Hey again (and thank you so much for this reply, I've thought about it loads since then)! - I've been chatting to my bootfitter recently about this because it's the time of year where they put in orders for boots/skis to arrive prior to the NZ 2022 season. (In fact I think they've already done so, but can still modify the orders.) After some discussion about the options and staring at my feet dimensions, we're definitely going with Atomic Redster - only question is now with the shell - CS 110 vs STI 110. The whole CS setup sounds pretty great to me, but on the flipside, multiple fitters I've chatted to recently think my foot is slim enough to justify an STI. (Visited a couple different shops in a ski town on a recent holiday, in case they had bigger selections of boots to try on - nothing at this time of the season though!) But it's tough without having the boots on hand and I don't actually have the lowest instep, compared to how slim the rest of my foot/heel is. I know my local fitter is going to think about it and chat to the atomic rep and get back to me with a Plan For Boots. I'm interested in knowing this stuff myself as well.

Is there much different in the heel construction between the two - ie thickness of plastic? Do both have some latitude for grinding, as opposed to just stretching, to accommodate bony bumps and lumps? Is the heel width the same?

Is there any/much difference in the instep height between them?

In an ideal world I think we'd just have both on hand and do a shell check with both, but it's a bit inconvenient for my poor fitter who has to buy these boots from overseas with a lead time of many months and may struggle to sell whichever boot I don't pick! (though I still kinda hope he'll just give up and order both, haha)

Great recent blister podcast btw, I listened to the whole thing which livened up my work day a little!

Glad you enjoyed the podcast as well! I'm glad people are liking these, it means a lot to hear that.

It's going to be hard for me to recommend which one will be a better fit for you given that I cannot see your foot inside the shell, but we can discuss the differences between the boots and see how that resonates with you. The STI is narrower, has a lower instep, and is "two steps" lower volume in general compared to the CS- the STI is our narrowest boot, the TI is slightly wider (but much thicker, stiffer), and the CS is wider than the TI but "wide" wouldn't at all be how I would describe the fit of the CS. The CS will offer you a bit more forefoot width, more room around the navicular, and a more open toe box. It still has the same heel width and instep height as our previous Redster World Cup boot, so it's definitely not loose. Between the CS and STI, both boots are thick enough to grind to your heart's content, you won't run into any limitations there. Generally speaking, it takes a bit more boot-fitting to get an STI to work for people but many, many skiers love the STI. It's hard to go wrong with either, it just depends on how snug of a fit you are looking for. If you want the snuggest, most responsive fit go with the STI. If you want a snug fit, but with a little more comfort out of the box, go with the CS.

 

[Aquila]

Glad you enjoyed the podcast as well! I'm glad people are liking these, it means a lot to hear that.

It's going to be hard for me to recommend which one will be a better fit for you given that I cannot see your foot inside the shell, but we can discuss the differences between the boots and see how that resonates with you. The STI is narrower, has a lower instep, and is "two steps" lower volume in general compared to the CS- the STI is our narrowest boot, the TI is slightly wider (but much thicker, stiffer), and the CS is wider than the TI but "wide" wouldn't at all be how I would describe the fit of the CS. The CS will offer you a bit more forefoot width, more room around the navicular, and a more open toe box. It still has the same heel width and instep height as our previous Redster World Cup boot, so it's definitely not loose. Between the CS and STI, both boots are thick enough to grind to your heart's content, you won't run into any limitations there. Generally speaking, it takes a bit more boot-fitting to get an STI to work for people but many, many skiers love the STI. It's hard to go wrong with either, it just depends on how snug of a fit you are looking for. If you want the snuggest, most responsive fit go with the STI. If you want a snug fit, but with a little more comfort out of the box, go with the CS.

Wicked, thanks so much for all the detail! That's exactly what I needed. I'll think about it and chat to my fitter some more. I'm sure I'll be back here in June 2022 extolling the virtues of whichever red boot I go with!

 

[Rhint]

My bootfitter suggested scoping a Hawx Ultra as a possible option for my next resort boot.

Ive been in the narrower lasted line of Dabello Kryptons / Lupos / Il Moros most of my life. I’m wondering that if I’ve got a relatively high instep, average width foot with a slimmer ankle, could a Hawx ultra fit the bill? I’d need to find a different store who stocks them.

 

[onenerdykid]

My bootfitter suggested scoping a Hawx Ultra as a possible option for my next resort boot.

Ive been in the narrower lasted line of Dabello Kryptons / Lupos / Il Moros most of my life. I’m wondering that if I’ve got a relatively high instep, average width foot with a slimmer ankle, could a Hawx ultra fit the bill? I’d need to find a different store who stocks them.

It should definitely be on the list to check. In the "98mm" category of boots, the Hawx Ultra does not have the lowest instep (taller than Salomon, but inline with most other brands). Depending on your budget, the Hawx Ultra 130 Professional will definitely check all of the boxes for you because the liner is custom made for your foot and the Medium Volume liner tongue can be swapped out for a thinner, High Volume fit version.

 

[ScottB]

It's going to be hard for me to recommend which one will be a better fit for you given that I cannot see your foot inside the shell, but we can discuss the differences between the boots and see how that resonates with you. The STI is narrower, has a lower instep, and is "two steps" lower volume in general compared to the CS- the STI is our narrowest boot, the TI is slightly wider (but much thicker, stiffer), and the CS is wider than the TI but "wide" wouldn't at all be how I would describe the fit of the CS. The CS will offer you a bit more forefoot width, more room around the navicular, and a more open toe box. It still has the same heel width and instep height as our previous Redster World Cup boot, so it's definitely not loose. Between the CS and STI, both boots are thick enough to grind to your heart's content, you won't run into any limitations there. Generally speaking, it takes a bit more boot-fitting to get an STI to work for people but many, many skiers love the STI. It's hard to go wrong with either, it just depends on how snug of a fit you are looking for. If you want the snuggest, most responsive fit go with the STI. If you want a snug fit, but with a little more comfort out of the box, go with the CS.

I compared the discontinued Redster WC to the Redster CS for my decision. The shop did not have the new Redster Ti boot to try. I have a long narrow foot, so width was very important to my fit. The STI boot did not come in a large enough size for me. I chose the CS boot and am very happy.

From ONK and written in my CS 130 review, "The STI boot is similar to the discontinued WC boot, but with a thinner wall shell, easier flex, lighter weight, and smaller sizes. It is aimed at lighter weight skiers and women who want a WC type race boot."

I found both the WC and CS fit my foot width wise. I would say my foot is narrow enough to fit a WC, STI, or Ti boot with minimal work (one punch required on my styloid process protrusion). The WC was snugger width wise, but it felt like 1 step lower volume, not 2, compared to the CS. The CS has a thicker and more densely padded liner, so that is probably worth a 1 volume step difference. I am very happy with how snug the CS fits my foot. I found the 130 WC boot to be too stiff for me, and I am coming from a RS140 Lange. The CS 130 flexed noticeably softer (but not soft) than the WC boot. That was the main deciding factor for me. I could also tell the liner of the CS will be more comfortable for all day use. I am in a pre-mimic liner boot. So things might have changed and you should check on what liners come in the 2 boots you are comparing?

I haven't tried on a STI, so I don't think my experience is directly valid for you? I do think the only missing piece of information from @onenerdykid is how the flex compares between the two 110 boots? and what liners come in those models now? His advice that I underlined combined with how stiff the boots are the keys to your decision. One disclaimer, just because both boots are rated 110 flex, doesn't mean they are the same stiffness. As I learned with the WC 130 and the CS 130. I would say the WC 130 was 10 flex points higher than the CS 130.

Good luck @Aquila, either choice will be great for you.

 

[onenerdykid]

I haven't tried on a STI, so I don't think my experience is directly valid for you? I do think the only missing piece of information from @onenerdykid is how the flex compares between the two 110 boots? and what liners come in those models now? His advice that I underlined combined with how stiff the boots are the keys to your decision. One disclaimer, just because both boots are rated 110 flex, doesn't mean they are the same stiffness. As I learned with the WC 130 and the CS 130. I would say the WC 130 was 10 flex points higher than the CS 130.

Both the STI 110 and CS 110 use the same injection material. The flexes will be similar but slightly different due to the boots being differently shaped. You will notice a different feel to the flex pattern/characteristics, but not a wildly different stiffness.

Liner wise, the STI uses our (non-Mimic) World Cup liner which is thinner, softer liner (due to it being a much lower volume boot) with a removeable tongue. The CS 110 will use a Mimic Gold liner with a fixed tongue. The STI boot will feel a little more race-y and the CS boot will feel a little more comfortable.

 

[Vinnie]

Glad you enjoyed the conversation. Tangents (bonus topics) tend to happen with these

On your size the boot did change - in 19/20, sizes 24 and smaller used a low cuff while sizes 25 and larger used a regular cuff (which is taller and thicker). Starting in 20/21 and continuing into 21/22, all sizes of the 110 have the regular cuff.

Will the Redster CS Mimic Pro liner work with the low cuff CS 110?

 

[onenerdykid]

Will the Redster CS Mimic Pro liner work with the low cuff CS 110?

The liner is built for a regular cuff height, but it will work. It will just stick out a bit higher than the stock liner.

 

[maxwerks]

@ONK I notice that some bootfitters don't use memoryfit on race boots like my STI. Instead they prefer to grind which is a more expensive and time consuming process. Are they right to avoid memoryfitting race boots?

 

[onenerdykid]

@ONK I notice that some bootfitters don't use memoryfit on race boots like my STI. Instead they prefer to grind which is a more expensive and time consuming process. Are they right to avoid memoryfitting race boots?

Memory Fit is a great tool when you:

• need a lot of shell work done and traditional stretching/punching is too time consuming/awkward given the amount of re-shaping that needs to happen.
• don't have the time to visit your boot-fitter for multiple refits

Stretching & grinding are preferred when you:

• don't have a lot of shell work to do and a simple punch/grind here or there is all you need
• want to make sure the fit is as performance-oriented as possible
• are ok revisiting your boot-fitter a few times to fine tune everything

Most people buying a boot like the STI tend to fall into the second camp and want the highest performance fit possible, and that means taking your time with stretching & grinding so you incrementally work your way towards a comfortable fit.

 

[maxwerks]

I would expect memoryfit to give an almost perfect result given that you physically shape the boot using the actual foot as a mould. With grinding there is the roundtrip of measurement, modifying and testing which is not only more time consuming but also more error prone and reliant on the skill of the bootfitter. Technically what is the downside of memory fitting a performance boot?

 

[onenerdykid]

I would expect memoryfit to give an almost perfect result given that you physically shape the boot using the actual foot as a mould. With grinding there is the roundtrip of measurement, modifying and testing which is not only more time consuming but also more error prone and reliant on the skill of the bootfitter. Technically what is the downside of memory fitting a performance boot?

Sort of. Memory Fit will make the shell as wide as the foot/liner combo, but not everyone wants that kind of fit (that might be too wide for some people). This is because Memory Fit cannot take into consideration your tolerance for foot compression. For example, someone with a 100mm foot might be totally ok with a 98mm lasted boot with no work done to it and doing the Memory Fit process would potentially make the boot feel too wide for them. Finding the right fit really needs to take into consideration your personal preference for foot compression.

 

[Andie_n]

I want to second ScottB's impression of the Redster CS, mine have just arrived (CS 110 LC size 23, model year 19/20; I am light at 60kg and 165cm height). I couldn't ski in them yet but they look and feel awesome, they feel much better quality than the consumer Hawx range. I love the feel of the plastic and how it flexes, very progressive. Everyone who is passionate about skiing and has access to a bootfitter should default to Redster CS and only if they can't fit in them they should go Hawx. Nobody should be afraid of Redster CS, they are not for racers, they are very much comfortable and usable.

My foot length is around 238mm and I initially ordered a size 24 and they were way too big, size 23 is perfect, the boot fitter only needed to grind a little in the front and at the heel but the instep and ankle support was great.

Thank you ONK for all your contribution and podcasts, very much appreciated - you convinced me to buy Atomic! One question, do you have the Mimic Professional in size 23?

 

[onenerdykid]

Thank you ONK for all your contribution and podcasts, very much appreciated - you convinced me to buy Atomic! One question, do you have the Mimic Professional in size 23?

Happy to help!

Mimic Professional liners start at size 22/22.5