Tune Your Waxing Irons!

[James]

I've got one of these cute things. I think they are discontinued.

That iron seems to have been branded by a lot of companies. Wintersteiger even.

 

[cantunamunch]

That iron seems to have been branded by a lot of companies. Wintersteiger even.

No Pugski tho.

 

[CalG]

Sorry guys for "a bit" late reply, but last few days with 4 WC races and whole bunch of travel in first 7 days of January takes some toll
I'm not sure if that's what I (or you) understand correctly. I understand it as surface of iron is concave , and if it's really so, it's definitely not good thing in my opinion. Iron needs to be perfect flat, so it touches base everywhere the same way, not that you would have concave surface and on edges of ski, iron would be touching base, while at center of ski, iron would be a bit above ptex. If it's really so, then I would throw such iron away (or never get it in first place).
But it can mean something else. I'm using Swix T71 iron (it's basically same as lower range but some more power and way thicker plate work nicer in my opinon), and surface is not completely flat. Let me try to explain that (not going to be easy though, so I hope it will make sense).... If you lay iron down on ski (with iron pointing down the ski, like it should be), you have a bit of lift on front of iron, and then all my irons (from basically beginning of my ski tech career) had some custom grinding on back of plate, to sort of lift it from ski in last 2 or 3cm of iron. This sort of improves redistribution of hot wax behind iron (makes it easier for scrapping of colder/harder waxes once they cool off, and perfectly flat wax makes it easier to do edge tuning job). So if this "Unique curved plate to "cup" wax as you iron and prevent wax loss." is meant this what I just tried to explain, then it's all good. Because middle part of iron (it's still biggest part of iron) is still perfectly flat, and that's part of iron that touches ptex.

Well that explains a lot.

I can not tolerate the thought or feel of the hot iron actually touching the p-tex base! If the iron is not floating on the thinnest film of wax, then it is pressing down on one or more wax dots dripped down the length of the ski as a first step.

My habit is to apply the wax in the crayon method. Touching the wax brick to the hot iron, then scrubbing the soften wax onto the ski base. Repeat as needed, but there are sometimes drips off the iron from applying the wax block, and that is where the "dots" come in. Or I just drip a sufficient quantity of dots from the get go and then spend a little more time spreading them as they melt.

Bottom line. The hot iron surface NEVER touches the ski base. NEVER!
It's like shaking a martini, It bruises the Gin ;-)

Concave, flat or convex, I don't care. I do not allow the iron to contact the P-tex, so base configuration means nothing!

If you allow the "flat iron" to touch bases, remind me not to let you wax my skis! ;-)

 

[Read Blinn]

People keep saying this, but no, it doesn't.

I believe this is "Wintersteiger even".

It's not a high-end tool, and at some point I'll replace it. I'm saving my money now for a better cordless drill to go with the new roto-brush.

 

[Tom K.]

Btw, this is the best iron you can buy for $130. I have the older version in solid blue plastic. Start Haus used to charge over double that. I know someone who used to wax skis all day. They actually preferred the analog over the digital. Note, Hohlmenkohl's irons are this Italian Star brand.
View attachment 36695
http://shop.caldwellsport.com/star-analog-110v-160c-iron/

What makes it best?

 

[Jacques]

Well that explains a lot.

I can not tolerate the thought or feel of the hot iron actually touching the p-tex base! If the iron is not floating on the thinnest film of wax, then it is pressing down on one or more wax dots dripped down the length of the ski as a first step.

My habit is to apply the wax in the crayon method. Touching the wax brick to the hot iron, then scrubbing the soften wax onto the ski base. Repeat as needed, but there are sometimes drips off the iron from applying the wax block, and that is where the "dots" come in. Or I just drip a sufficient quantity of dots from the get go and then spend a little more time spreading them as they melt.

Bottom line. The hot iron surface NEVER touches the ski base. NEVER!
It's like shaking a martini, It bruises the Gin ;-)

Concave, flat or convex, I don't care. I do not allow the iron to contact the P-tex, so base configuration means nothing!

If you allow the "flat iron" to touch bases, remind me not to let you wax my skis! ;-)

If you don't run your iron too hot, you will be fine if you keep it moving. To seal the deal you need 250F plus.
Your always going to have a film of wax anyway, if you are doing anything correctly.

 

[James]

What makes it best?

It performs well and is well made. Heat stability is very good, coming back to temp is good. It's simple, doesn't have nooks and crannies around the base that hold wax that burn when you change wax temps. Flat base, pretty thick, no grooves, it's easy to clean. Size factor is good, it's pretty compact for what it is. Decent cord that's pretty flexible and of good length. You could add another meter of course.
Designed and made in Italy.
I've liked the cork handle since my first more primitive Holmenkohl iron I had that got stolen.

Well that explains a lot.

I can not tolerate the thought or feel of the hot iron actually touching the p-tex base! If the iron is not floating on the thinnest film of wax, then it is pressing down on one or more wax dots dripped down the length of the ski as a first step.

My habit is to apply the wax in the crayon method. Touching the wax brick to the hot iron, then scrubbing the soften wax onto the ski base. Repeat as needed, but there are sometimes drips off the iron from applying the wax block, and that is where the "dots" come in. Or I just drip a sufficient quantity of dots from the get go and then spend a little more time spreading them as they melt.

Bottom line. The hot iron surface NEVER touches the ski base. NEVER!
It's like shaking a martini, It bruises the Gin ;-)

Concave, flat or convex, I don't care. I do not allow the iron to contact the P-tex, so base configuration means nothing!

If you allow the "flat iron" to touch bases, remind me not to let you wax my skis! ;-)

Well, you might want to read this article. The wax film itself can harm your base apparently. It's not always a safety blanket for the ptex.
It's a long article, and he gives the following disclaimer:

However, I don’t have solid “proof” of any of this, and I’ve been able to find alarming little documentation explaining exactly how wax and ski bases do work together. So take the following with a grain of salt. If I’m totally wrong, it’s not for lack of testing a ton of skis and talking to the best people I can find.

Troy Caldwell, Caldwell Sport
Nov, 2014

He has a section on base hardening with heat.

"This hardening process is inevitable if you’re ever going to use cold or hard paraffins on your skis, and it’s not a bad thing. But it’s often confused with “burning”. It is a good idea to harden your bases intentionally so that the density changes uniformly and you end up with a stable and even base surface. This hardening step is a standard operation among World Cup technicians when it comes to bringing new or freshly ground skis up to speed."

..

"Bases can be easily damaged by excess heat. But in my experience that has more to do with overheating the wax than overheating the base material. When you iron wax on your ski base, the wax goes into solution in the amorphous material in the base; like sugar dissolving into tea. The amorphous material in your base also carries the additive content of the base in suspension – primarily carbon blacking, and whatever other proprietary additives the base companies put in the material. In order for the wax to go into solution, a couple of things have to happen. First, the base material needs to be warm enough to “open up” and accept the wax. This seems to happen at iron temps between 110C and 120C, depending on the base material formulation. Second, the wax needs to be sufficiently fluid to flow easily. When both of these conditions are met, the wax will dissolve into the base essentially immediately. It’s not a gradual process. The depth of saturation is a matter of the temperature gradient in the base; wax will penetrate as far as the necessary heat penetrates."

http://www.caldwellsport.com/2014/11/high-temp-powder-iron-how-to-not-destroy-your-skis/

Curious what @Primoz thinks of the above link article.

 

[Freaq]

That iron seems to have been branded by a lot of companies. Wintersteiger even.

I use this Maplus branded one. I've never tuned it

 

[Jacques]

It performs well and is well made. Heat stability is very good, coming back to temp is good. It's simple, doesn't have nooks and crannies around the base that hold wax that burn when you change wax temps. Flat base, pretty thick, no grooves, it's easy to clean. Size factor is good, it's pretty compact for what it is. Decent cord that's pretty flexible and of good length. You could add another meter of course.
Designed and made in Italy.
I've liked the cork handle since my first more primitive Holmenkohl iron I had that got stolen.


Well, you might want to read this article. The wax film itself can harm your base apparently. It's not always a safety blanket for the ptex.
It's a long article, and he gives the following disclaimer:

However, I don’t have solid “proof” of any of this, and I’ve been able to find alarming little documentation explaining exactly how wax and ski bases do work together. So take the following with a grain of salt. If I’m totally wrong, it’s not for lack of testing a ton of skis and talking to the best people I can find.

Troy Caldwell, Caldwell Sport
Nov, 2014

He has a section on base hardening with heat.

"This hardening process is inevitable if you’re ever going to use cold or hard paraffins on your skis, and it’s not a bad thing. But it’s often confused with “burning”. It is a good idea to harden your bases intentionally so that the density changes uniformly and you end up with a stable and even base surface. This hardening step is a standard operation among World Cup technicians when it comes to bringing new or freshly ground skis up to speed."

..

"Bases can be easily damaged by excess heat. But in my experience that has more to do with overheating the wax than overheating the base material. When you iron wax on your ski base, the wax goes into solution in the amorphous material in the base; like sugar dissolving into tea. The amorphous material in your base also carries the additive content of the base in suspension – primarily carbon blacking, and whatever other proprietary additives the base companies put in the material. In order for the wax to go into solution, a couple of things have to happen. First, the base material needs to be warm enough to “open up” and accept the wax. This seems to happen at iron temps between 110C and 120C, depending on the base material formulation. Second, the wax needs to be sufficiently fluid to flow easily. When both of these conditions are met, the wax will dissolve into the base essentially immediately. It’s not a gradual process. The depth of saturation is a matter of the temperature gradient in the base; wax will penetrate as far as the necessary heat penetrates."

http://www.caldwellsport.com/2014/11/high-temp-powder-iron-how-to-not-destroy-your-skis/

Curious what @Primoz thinks of the above link article.

"This seems to happen at iron temps between 110C and 120C" That's 248 and 230 F
230 F would not scare me, but 248 F is a bit scary. Keep iron moving, no problem.
I have been boxing skis for years as high as 150 F and have had no problems.
So this guy is saying 140F to 150 F will not work.
"as far as the heat penetrates" ? The hot box heats the entire ski throughout to 140 to 150 F in my case.
I don't believe it, as I have seen those skis go for many days without any drying whatsoever.
I have scraped off at least 2 to 3 mils of base on those skis and wax was still there.
I believe that lower temps. and more time can do the trick.
Primoz I believe is in the high heat quick camp, but I can't speak for him. Just going from prior things he has stated.
In the end,if you are happy.......that's all that counts.

 

[Jacques]

I use this Maplus branded one. I've never tuned it

If it is flat and has no burrs then you are probably fine. Some light shaping of the edges never hurts though!

 

[Jacques]

It performs well and is well made. Heat stability is very good, coming back to temp is good. It's simple, doesn't have nooks and crannies around the base that hold wax that burn when you change wax temps. Flat base, pretty thick, no grooves, it's easy to clean. Size factor is good, it's pretty compact for what it is. Decent cord that's pretty flexible and of good length. You could add another meter of course.
Designed and made in Italy.
I've liked the cork handle since my first more primitive Holmenkohl iron I had that got stolen.


Well, you might want to read this article. The wax film itself can harm your base apparently. It's not always a safety blanket for the ptex.
It's a long article, and he gives the following disclaimer:

However, I don’t have solid “proof” of any of this, and I’ve been able to find alarming little documentation explaining exactly how wax and ski bases do work together. So take the following with a grain of salt. If I’m totally wrong, it’s not for lack of testing a ton of skis and talking to the best people I can find.

Troy Caldwell, Caldwell Sport
Nov, 2014

He has a section on base hardening with heat.

"This hardening process is inevitable if you’re ever going to use cold or hard paraffins on your skis, and it’s not a bad thing. But it’s often confused with “burning”. It is a good idea to harden your bases intentionally so that the density changes uniformly and you end up with a stable and even base surface. This hardening step is a standard operation among World Cup technicians when it comes to bringing new or freshly ground skis up to speed."

..

"Bases can be easily damaged by excess heat. But in my experience that has more to do with overheating the wax than overheating the base material. When you iron wax on your ski base, the wax goes into solution in the amorphous material in the base; like sugar dissolving into tea. The amorphous material in your base also carries the additive content of the base in suspension – primarily carbon blacking, and whatever other proprietary additives the base companies put in the material. In order for the wax to go into solution, a couple of things have to happen. First, the base material needs to be warm enough to “open up” and accept the wax. This seems to happen at iron temps between 110C and 120C, depending on the base material formulation. Second, the wax needs to be sufficiently fluid to flow easily. When both of these conditions are met, the wax will dissolve into the base essentially immediately. It’s not a gradual process. The depth of saturation is a matter of the temperature gradient in the base; wax will penetrate as far as the necessary heat penetrates."

http://www.caldwellsport.com/2014/11/high-temp-powder-iron-how-to-not-destroy-your-skis/

Curious what @Primoz thinks of the above link article.

Looking at Cadwell's article, The main theme seems to be about pure fluoro powders.
Yes, those need to be applied that way.
As an Alpine skier and waxer, I never use them. Some in the race world do though.
Other than that, like I have said, I use less heat and more time.
All the bases seem to be fine and perform very well.
The only time I see "Black" stuff in my scraping is when I use a sharp scraper to intentionally remove some base. Other than that it would be graphite from the waxes I use.
All I know is after I have cycled a good sintered base in the hot box several times for hours and hours, they always run like crazy. Way better than if I just did a few iron cycles. I get the same feedback from others that have used my service in the hot box.
IDK, maybe we are all just dreaming or taking too many sugar pills!
Better tune that iron before you dawn your respirator and apply pure fluoro powders!

 

[Jacques]

For some the Hot Boxing has gone out of style. I still say they work.
Although this article is from 2005, I still believe it. Also goes over waxing with an iron. The iron waxing described is still the way i do that today.
That said if you have not tuned your iron.........do it!

http://www.nordicskiracer.com/news.asp?NewsID=449

 

[Primoz]

Curious what @Primoz thinks of the above link article.

I don't know Troy, but Zach Caldwell was pretty good reference in xc, Yes also I'm on "high" heat side. With moving iron at right speed you heat up base and wax for ptex to "accept" wax without damaging ski. I can't tell what this speed is, as it depends on too many factors (from type of wax, to room conditions), but with some experience you cna see it pretty easy if you are moving iron too fast or too slow. I wouldn't really go this far to claim you can't do this with lower temperatures, as just wax dissolving and penetrating ptex worked pretty good at 60-70c hotboxes. But people stopped using hotboxes due other reason, not because wax wouldn't penetrate. Long exposure to heat, even if just 60-70c is not good for skis, and skis lose their flex etc. I'm sure this doesn't show for normal users, but once Olympic gold medal depends on this, you don't want to have ski, that performs worse then it would, if it would be worked on it different way.
Normally my iron temperature is between 120 and 140c depending on wax, and snow conditions for hard waxes (fluoro or non fluoro) and up to 190c for fluoro overlays.

 

[crgildart]

I still find it difficult to believe that baking bindings at over 300 degrees F over and over in a hot box isn't abusive to the plastics and melting down grease inside of those bindings.

 

[James]

I still find it difficult to believe that baking bindings at over 300 degrees F over and over in a hot box isn't abusive to the plastics and melting down grease inside of those bindings.

I would agree, but you can take them off. Usually it was done before they went on.

 

[Jacques]

I still find it difficult to believe that baking bindings at over 300 degrees F over and over in a hot box isn't abusive to the plastics and melting down grease inside of those bindings.

Ha ha. Typo? Nobody is hot boxing to 300 F !

 

[Jacques]

As ski season is almost here in the northern part of the globe, you might want to check out how flat your iron is!

 

[oldschoolskier]

I would agree with @Jacques that a flat iron (waxing textures not withstanding) does provide even heat distribution on the base preventing damage to the ski.

Could it be that the issue is marketing hype to cover a manufacturing error?

 

[cantunamunch]

Could it be that the issue is marketing hype to cover a manufacturing error?

Is anyone else reading this thread really proud that skiing doesn't have custom-cast heavy iron aftermarket baseplates for our wax irons?

#atleastwe'renotaudio

 

[tube77]

Thank you for the post!