Two Subarus blow up in a day

[scott43]

Out of every car I've owned or maintained for a family member, this is the only one I've needed to chuck the calipers on under four years of age when they receive proper lubrication during pad replacement. I shouldn't need to empty a tube of grease in them every two years, it's a poor design and not acceptable in this day and age.

I don't disagree that the design is crap, but it's not limited to Subaru. I've done Hondas, Buicks, Acuras, Dodges..all the same..

 

[cantunamunch]

I've done Hondas, Buicks, Acuras, Dodges..all the same..

I will attest and confirm that Honda/Acura factory brakes are cr@p. In our case, factory-correct service results in squealing, grinding, and twice the stopping distance of the VW even though they're within 400lbs of each other (read: the VW, loaded for trips and with a box or boats on top, is likely heavier most of the time)

 

[David Chaus]

The independent Subaru-only repair shop I have used for years has this on their website:

“Most all modern aluminum motors are suffering with some form of head gasket failure. Many different manufactures have experienced some form of head gasket issue. There are lots of questions and not nearly as many answers. We at Suburb Service have questioned Subaru with little success, we have questioned different gasket manufactures and they have provided us with many different opinions but no real cast in stone answers.

Now I don’t even want to have anyone think that I am an engineer or a designer because I’m not. I will offer a few of my observations based on over 40 years in the automotive repair field. These observations of course are my thoughts and ideas and coupled with 15 cents won’t buy you a cup of coffee at mickey d’s.

Reason for Subaru Head Gasket Failure
In my opinion the head gasket failure issue developed about the same time our Federal Government decided that asbestos was no longer a product that was safe to use both for the environment and humans. Once this heat dissipating material was removed we began to see an uptick of issues with the following automotive products that contained asbestos. The major automotive products were clutch linings, brake shoes and pads, and of course head gaskets.

Asbestos is a heat dissipating material that resists heat and acts as a high temperature sealer. Once asbestos was taken off the market the automotive repair industry has seen a marked increase in head gasket failure. Going back to the Subaru as late as 1990 through 1995(+ -) Subaru was using a fibrous gasket with asbestos. This gasket material had sealing qualities and when the heads were torqued the gasket actually squished and crushed between the head and the bock making a near perfect seal. We used these gaskets on all 2.2 Subaru motors with minimal head gasket failure. Once these asbestos impregnated gaskets were removed from the market place we then saw an upsurge in 2.2 head gasket problems.”

 

[cantunamunch]

Well, it's a notion. It should be mentioned that materials science and engineering have made leaps and bounds since asbestos was banned; if a car company cannot devise a solution for almost two decades (almost 3 if we take the 1989 date of when the policy was implemented) one can't really fault regulation.

 

[scott43]

Well, it's a notion. It should be mentioned that materials science and engineering have made leaps and bounds since asbestos was banned; if a car company cannot devise a solution for almost two decades (almost 3 if we take the 1989 date of when the policy was implemented) one can't really fault regulation.

I've read a bit about the Subaru problems..they did change their gasket design again, after the initial design change, and that seems to have corrected most of the problems. Unfortunately a lot of people paid for new head gaskets in the meantime. I don't personally think there's any excuse for it..as mentioned, many mfg's have the exact same design with no issues..I'd be pissed if I had a gasket problem car and Subaru expected me to pay for it.

 

[cantunamunch]

Head gasket problems were one of the reasons I quit buying GM - oh how I envied Subaru owners in the 90s

 

[tromano]

Have you noticed a change in the steering at all?

There's some increased body roll but the steering is not that different.

 

[tch]

Well, it's a notion. It should be mentioned that materials science and engineering have made leaps and bounds since asbestos was banned; if a car company cannot devise a solution for almost two decades (almost 3 if we take the 1989 date of when the policy was implemented) one can't really fault regulation.

I agree 100%. "Gov't. regulations" get overly blamed for a LOT of things in our society ("they have to hire x number of minority contractors" [yes, I've actually heard this one in relation to construction delays], "this product would be so much cheaper if there weren't so many government regulations", etc). Almost all government regulations are enacted with plenty of lead time for businesses to respond PLUS folks often forget that they are designed to protect citizens and the environment (do we really want a bunch of products made out of cancer-causing asbestos?)

Sorry -- but I've heard this kind of veiled cynicism/explanation too many times as an easy out.
Rant off.

 

[nay]

I would like to know why the hell auto manufacturers can’t figure out brakes. They keep trying to apply minimum specs, or worse using the parts bin across various models. There are few more irritating basic design issues than constant brake judder due to warped rotors, and it’s not like that issue is cheap. Blaming the caliper pins is common, but caliper pins don’t warp your rotors.

I’ve started frequenting my local “u-pull” yard for key spare parts. Colorado is so full of 3rd Gen 4Runners (‘96-‘02) and first gen Tacos (‘95.5-‘04) that the platform will be viable here for another 20 years simply through parts recycling. Plus you can put 1st gen Tundra/Sequoia brakes on them and cure that series’ warped rotor problems for good. The 4Runner PO had already done it, picked up the parts for the Taco off a yard Sequioa for about $40.

Beats constant $500 trips to the brake shop that last a few thousand miles before the judder returns.

 

[Bill Talbot]

I agree 100%. "Gov't. regulations" get overly blamed for a LOT of things in our society ("they have to hire x number of minority contractors" [yes, I've actually heard this one in relation to construction delays], "this product would be so much cheaper if there weren't so many government regulations", etc). Almost all government regulations are enacted with plenty of lead time for businesses to respond PLUS folks often forget that they are designed to protect citizens and the environment (do we really want a bunch of products made out of cancer-causing asbestos?)

Sorry -- but I've heard this kind of veiled cynicism/explanation too many times as an easy out.
Rant off.

Sorry, but it is actually understated by far...
and it is taxing us to death.

 

[Muleski]

One of our son's first modifications was to put Tundra calipers, pads and rotors on his Gen 1 Tacoma. Huge difference. That was about 160K miles ago.

Years ago I got rid of the calipers and rotors on my Audi S6, which were alleged to have been a better spec than A6 brakes. Went with a bigger higher quality Porsche caliper. Bigger rotors, much more pad surface area. Also went with very good pads. The thing was like a different car. Amazing difference. Sometimes pads alone and even better clean fluid make a huge difference, let alone better rotors.

Yep, agree, many cars and trucks could use better brake components!

 

[crgildart]

Some of the most crippling regulations were actually back door lobbied for by giant global firms who knew small and mid sized businesses couldn't comply and remain competitive where the firms with deeper pockets could... having government carry their water for them crushing the local competitors who can't afford to set up shop offshore free of those regulations..

Back on topic.. Regardless of today's flaws, cars today are WAY more reliable and cheaper to maintain long term than cars of the 70s-90s were. I just replaced an exhaust pipe and muffler assembly on mrscrgildart's 2010 car last week. I haven't had to replace any exhaust system parts on any vehicles since the elate 80s.. It's why Midas and Mieneke had to change to brakes from exhaust system work.. Lots of other common problems of the pre 00s cars have also been pretty much eliminated. Remember when cars making it past 80K miles were considered super good cars?? I do!

 

[nay]

^^^^more reliable in terms of manufacturing quality? Yes - “lemons” are a thing of the past.

But modern cars are often way under spec’d to keep weight down (this is the only excuse for undersizing brakes and other components besides maximizing things like room for more cupholders), and because electronics take up less room and weigh virtually nothing, modern vehicles are extremely limited in what can truly be owner maintained.

The lowest common denominator parts bin is why people report feeling like the newer models are “cheaper” IMO. Anything that can be shared across models will be, so some stuff that is on base models shows up on more premium models across global markets.

In simple user experience, that’s stuff like door checks (that little thing that holds your door open) and latches that when they wear out cost substantial money to replace if you aren’t comfortable doing it yourself.

I’ve had to replace 3 of the 4 door checks on the Sequoia, two power lock actuators, and the driver’s door latch last week along with the turn signal and headlight stalk. Zero of these things have failed on the 1995 Land Cruiser. That’s a parts bin sharing problem.

The drivetrain on the other hand is running like it just came off the lot at 282K, because that is shared with the 100 series Land Cruiser.

The door and other parts stuff has been around $450 in parts, no big deal when I paid $6K for the entire vehicle, but would have been upwards of $2K with shop labor.

Of course one can live with some of these things, but not when one has sold one’s wife’s minivan (with perpetual brake judder despite upgrades) and the Sequoia is now her daily driver.