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Vail Resorts- a new leaf?

4ster

Just because you can doesn’t mean you should!
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Have they screwed up Northstar, Heavenly, Kirkwood or others?
Kirkwood used to be a great place for early and especially late season skiing. Since Vail has owned it there have been years when they close with 20 feet of snow on the ground. There is much more but that is my biggest beef.
As I and others have said before, “they already have our money”
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raisingarizona

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Kirkwood used to be a great place for early and especially late season skiing. Since Vail has owned it there have been years when they close with 20 feet of snow on the ground. There is much more but that is my biggest beef.
As I and others I have said before, “they already have our money”
View attachment 153177
I think it’s obvious that the thing to do is to stop giving them your money.
 

Posaune

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So you're saying a lot of folks will switch from Epic to Ikon for 2022-23 despite the higher cost?

They can then ski Crystal as well as drive right by Stevens Pass on the way to Red Mtn, B.C.? Sounds like a done deal for some or maybe many.
Most of the skiers in the Seattle area are day skiers. They go a few times a season and drop their bucks at the local area. Most of them don't think about Epic vs. Icon, they just want to day ski, and if the pass makes it better for them they'll go that way. However if you get only half of what you thought you were paying for then you might go elsewhere. Some will go to Crystal, and others will go to Snoqualmie, Mission Ridge, or Baker. We've already seen an uptick of people from Stevens at Mt. Baker if conversations on the chair are any indication.
 

ThomasD

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US 2 has had multiple closures this season. Lots of new residents who really don't understand that all season tires aren't really appropriate for winter pass travel here. Road gets closed, no one gets to or from Stevens, period.
With what they have to spend for housing a full set of snow tires might be a budget breaker.

Depending on their deductibles...

But they'll figure it out pretty quickly.
 

dovski

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So as many of you know I had some bad customer service experiences at Whistler several years back and have stopped skiing Vail resorts altogher, essentially voting with my wallet so to speak. This was the year I was planning to give Vail another chance and head back to Whistler as I really do miss skiing there as it has some great terrain. Reading this thread it makes me think that this is definitely not the season to do that. I really wish Vail would learn from other resorts and resort companies that you need to play the long game and treat your customers well so they continue to bring their business back to you. Unfortunately I think it is going to take a lot of us voting with our wallets to make that happen.
 

geepers

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I just signed because they need to be held accountable for degrading the on hill experience worldwide :(

Worldwide could be a little strong.

Vail own 3 resorts in Australia. Fair chunk of our market as there are only 5 real resorts in total (plus a couple of feeder resorts one of which burnt down in the 2019/20 bush fires). They did bring in weekend lift ticket pricing which was a shock at 1st experience. However that doesn't affect season pass holders. In fact Vail in Australia were very customer focused in retaining pass pricing in the face of high demand - Thredbo (non-Vail) close to doubled their pass prices when Australian skiers could not travel. Vail also offered an excellent refund guarantee in the event of a covid lockdown - something our govts here tend to do at 1st cough. We got 100% refund this past season.

There has been no noticeable change in the on-snow experience (due to management) since Vail took over at Perisher where I've skied on and off for more than 50 years. Plenty of other factors have affected the experience positively and negatively but resort management hasn't been an issue. Can't speak about the 2 other Vail owned resorts.
 

noncrazycanuck

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I can't say anything has been unusual with operations at Whistler since Vail bought it.

Haven't been able to ski this year so far but lift operations don't sound unusual this year based on what I've heard.

Could be that with the size of the operations already in place there may not have been much incentive to make big changes

Have also heard rumours Vail is learning from Whistler.

A minor annoyance is Vails blackout days for US holidays. One buddy managed to get himself charged an extra full rate twice in one season for holidays he wasn't aware existed.

He really should have had a season pass anyway they are lot less now. Day tickets and meals aren't.

Lift upgrades are still progressing 2 more next year. Don't believe at any point in my 50 years at Whistler it's been as easy to get in as much vertical in a day nor has as much terrain been available.
 

Blue Streak

I like snow.
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The crew in Broomfield can count just fine and know how to squeeze every nickel out of their customers.

The only sustainability that really matters is sustaining profitability and shareholder value - all of the happy horseshit virtue signaling notwithstanding.

Still, the ski areas that comprise the conglomerate have many great people who still truly care about skiers and skiing.

Those are the people who make working for VR tolerable.
 

DanoT

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I can't say anything has been unusual with operations at Whistler since Vail bought it.

Haven't been able to ski this year so far but lift operations don't sound unusual this year based on what I've heard.

Could be that with the size of the operations already in place there may not have been much incentive to make big changes

Have also heard rumours Vail is learning from Whistler.

A minor annoyance is Vails blackout days for US holidays.
One buddy managed to get himself charged an extra full rate twice in one season for holidays he wasn't aware existed.

He really should have had a season pass anyway they are lot less now. Day tickets and meals aren't.

Lift upgrades are still progressing 2 more next year. Don't believe at any point in my 50 years at Whistler it's been as easy to get in as much vertical in a day nor has as much terrain been available.
I did a ski trip with CMH the same year that Vail took over Whistler and one night at dinner I ended up sitting beside the CMH GM who dropped in for a visit and part of the dinner conversation was about Whistler and the CMH GM said the exact thing that the scuttlebutt was that Vail execs were learning from Whistler execs.

Nippon Cable, who own Sun Peaks and have taken the long view on development and treat locals and customers the opposite of Vail, also own 25% of Whistler, 5 ski areas in Japan, and a major share of Dopplemyre Lifts. Nippon knows a thing or 2 about the ski biz and they also might have an influence on how Whistler is run.

Your buddy should realize that Whistler is essentially a US resort, located in Canada.
 
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newboots

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I signed, too. I've never been to Stevens Pass, nor anywhere out West to ski. But out here, people are talking about Wildcat and Attitash, two Vail resorts that are reportedly foundering badly, with unopened trails, poor grooming, understaffing, and generally going downhill miserably.

Locally, Hunter Mountain usually elicits a groan due to the amount of traffic and bros from NYC and environs. I have been unimpressed with the snowmaking, but I will keep trying because it's nearby. I hear complaints about Okemo, too, but there are other issues at play there. It's been a hard start to this winter.

In general, having witnessed what Vail's takeover did to Okemo and its staff, I was appalled. Entire administrative departments (decent jobs with living incomes in a rural area with few other opportunities) just chopped - HR, Marketing, and some others. The claim that they will honor local culture is crap. One tiny example: The Summit Lodge (not nearly as grand as it sounds) was decorated with photographs of skiers in the 60s. Family members would point out their parents or grandparents, lounging in the snow with their straight skis, leather boots, and ski sweaters. Vail decided to redecorate (fine), but the photographs are now lost. Those same family members have been trying to track them, with no luck. Okemo was not really a small, old-school outfit, but the little old-school culture that was left was wiped out without a thought.

So yes, I signed it. And posted it on FB.
 

Edd

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The situation with Vail ski areas in New Hampshire is dire. Lifts and snowmaking are at maybe 50% normal capacity for this time of year. Nearby competitors, with similar staffing challenges, are operating more or less normally. Vail essentially blew off Christmas week here, which is a weird move for a ski company.

The most logical reasoning for that would be that there aren’t enough NH regulars to register as a loss for pass sales. All well and good except they’ve seized 4 ski areas and severely degraded the experience.
 

Ogg

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The situation with Vail ski areas in New Hampshire is dire. Lifts and snowmaking are at maybe 50% normal capacity for this time of year. Nearby competitors, with similar staffing challenges, are operating more or less normally. Vail essentially blew off Christmas week here, which is a weird move for a ski company.

The most logical reasoning for that would be that there aren’t enough NH regulars to register as a loss for pass sales. All well and good except they’ve seized 4 ski areas and severely degraded the experience.
From everything I've heard and seen Vail DGAF about any of it's NE properties beyond what money they can extract and has severely degraded the experience at all of them. I used to go to Hunter for day trips but last season, AFAIK, they never opened the West side trails. Without those few trails I have pretty much zero interest in skiing there. Add in the typical Vail (lack of) customer service and I want to avoid it like the plague.
 

Ken_R

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Vail just owns so much lift served ski terrain that us skiers will have to deal with them for generations. They wont sell any and no one can build new ski areas so this is it. They control the supply of lift served ski terrain. You want something different? Ski self powered and or ski at the few indy ski areas remaining.
 

Tom Co.

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Again a cross post from the PNW thread
I went night skiing at Stevens Pass last night, Thursday
Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse at Stevens, it did. When I left home the Internet said Hogsback, Skyline, and Daisy would be running for night skiing. Usually five chairlift run at night. When I got there only Hogs and Daisy were running. Daisy is a beginners chair. It was the same story, not enough staff to run more lifts. The line on Hogs was tremendous, I was making about three laps an hour. It didn't mellow out until about 8 o'clock. This is definitely false advertising. I am sending emails to [email protected] and to commentsatvailresorts.com, which is the only email I can find for corporate vail. The last time I emailed Stevens I got back a generic copy-paste reply about their main concern is the safety of our guests blah blah. So I will probably get the same reply but at least I'm sending something. The change.org petition to hold vail responsible now has 19,000 signatures, If you haven't signed, please do.

www.change.org/p/vail-resorts-hold-vail-...ea-a717-652493a8f0df
 

DanoT

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I assume that most or all of Vail's shareholders are skiers, soon to be the only remaining happy Vail skiers. :ogbiggrin:
 
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jgiddyup

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WildBillD

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From what I have read in these posts and my own eastern resort experiences , lead me to believe that Vail resorts and their inability to open lifts, make snow,etc is purvasive and not limited to Stevens Pass. Vail is using the classic excuse of the pandemic and lack of employees for not opening up lifts and terrain. To quote Rahm Emanuel " Never let a serious crisis go to waste" You have the opportunity to do things, you think you could never do before"
A previous mountain manager from one these small eastern areas retired , and told me that without food , beverage, and special events they had taken in more revenue than in previous years because they could ask full ticket prices during the 2020 -2021 season.
He did not say it directly, but implied the reservation system was slanted toward selling non -epic pass lift tickets, by limiting pass holder reservations. Ski area capacity was never enforced that I could tell, and this small eastern resort very rarely scanned passes all day if only for an hour . During my western Vail resort visits, they did scan and enforce reservations.

The month I spend out west is the reason I continue to buy an epic pass, but now considering an a -basin pass or IKON. VR model of one size fits all does not work. MGMT of big time destination resort is way different than day trippers from big cities - can you say Steven Pass and PCMR ( partially local, partially destination)with seven Springs to follow shortly.


As an ancedotal observation;
Skiing early season this year at one of these smaller eastern resorts, I noticed that snow was made on several trails, and could have been opened for several days prior, but currently closed. I asked the ski patrol why the trails were closed, they said they had not been given the ok by the newly installed VR mnt manager to open the slopes, even though they were probably safe to ski. Because only 2 intermediate slopes were currently open ,one of which contained snowboard terrain features which required skiers of various ability levels to share the narrow slope with those jumping and riding on terrain features. . Given more choices for trail selection, I and others would have avoided this terrain feature trail.

I write this because, I have a point of reference under similiar situations between this year and last year with respect to time period, snow making, lift operations and ski area management style before VR full mgmt takeover.. By far, despite the reservation system, last year was superior as far as less wait time in the lift line and more terrain variety.

Earlier this month, there were ample periods of cold weather to make snow, which were not exploited. During the Christmas holidays, even though they only had 4 intermediate slopes open, these 4 slopes could not adequately accommodate 5000 skiers on short length hill with 500 ft vertical. Even during rain throughout the entire Holiday. I

In otherwords, either Vail resorts mismanaged its resorts in terms of lift operations or Vail resorts limited lift operations by corporate design. Vail resorts is in the snow business, they certainly know how to manage resorts when mother nature does not co -operate, but now they are immune to weather because of the epic pass sales. As someone noted in a previous post they already have your money, so why improve services?

And by the way, if VR's management team can not adequately provide the necessary workforce at its resorts, they should be replaced with a management team that can. The VR reputation is at stake here. Because of this limited resource fiasco, their season pass sales next year will surely decline. False incentives for season pass buys will not be sustainable if the lifts aren't running.
 

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