Van Deer/Red Bull and WC Racing

[dbostedo]

Van Deer on the podium at the first race in WC! (including some commercial drama)

HK would’ve podiumed without Van Deer.
Norwegians placed 3, 4, 5.

Can we please not post spoiler race results outside of the proper men's or women's World Cup threads?

 

[James]

But say “Norge killed it” and including HK in that bunch is a stretch to me. I’m not that clued in these days, maybe things have changed?

Well we do include Lindsey, Mikaela, Bode, as American team. But we’ll take anything.

Can we please not post spoiler race results outside of the proper men's or women's World Cup threads?

I thought we were over that, and this is in racing, not general. Therefore anything about VanDeer on race day…
But ok.

 

[jimtransition]

@James, just keep in mind that HK has had VERY little interaction with the Norwegian team, and he and his father have more often been at odds with the federation than not over the years.

The typical superstar team of one. Remember all of the fighting about his plans to use a RedBull helmet a few years ago?

Dunno about the new “material.” Seems like the old stuff was working last season. And I assume he has at least some of the same service staff.

But say “Norge killed it” and including HK in that bunch is a stretch to me. I’m not that clued in these days, maybe things have changed?

Regardless, good season start for him. For sure.

Each season I kind of wonder why the race takes place where it does, when it does…having been there a number of years. It has had staying power!

I worked out next to the Norwegian team in the gym in Queenstown, no HK to be seen. I think he went to Argentina instead.

Regardless of the stickers, still a good result for Van Deer, Henrik's best ever result at Solden is a great start.

 

[Philpug]

VDRB is smart enough to get this working in their favor. The announcers are talking about the name NOT being on the skis probably more than if the were to just talk about the skis and Henrik being on an upstart brand. The name not being there is the story now.

 

[ScotsSkier]

VDRB is smart enough to get this working in their favor. The announcers are talking about the name NOT being on the skis probably more than if the were to just talk about the skis and Henrik being on an upstart brand. The name not being there is the story now.

Bingo! as anyone who has gone skiing on a pair of skis just marked “test” knows, it drives waaay more interest.

However, I am a bit confused……all those industry insiders who were adamant first that no way Red Bull was involved, then when it was revealed, claiming there was no way a basically unknown brand and the augment factory could produce WC winning skis ( especially since they were unobtanium) without having had a huge presence and extensive testing on the WC…..

hmmm….looks like a WC podium first time out is a pretty good response…. Congrats to HK (and MH)

 

[Muleski]

I have NEVER had a doubt that CROC….Augment….now VDRB…has, was, and could produce skis capable of WC success. That intel goes back to when Tim Jitloff was one of first decent WC specialists on the ski. When he was still skiing well despite being dropped by the USST. He told two common friends that they were the best, the “fastest” GS that he had ever skied.

It seems to me {and @ScotsSkier would know the score, I think} that while the engineering and product was there, the enormous expense of a “real” WC program was not something they could cover. It’s huge…starting with the federation pool fees!

Heck, as SS knows, I’m close to a top junior coach who has ALL of his kids on the best, and ALL are fully comped {in large numbers} with lots of additional support. He tried to get to Augment as he has Euro friends {small numbers} with kids on them. Not there.

So I was of the opinion that no way would Red Bull get into this, and invest, back, own a big chunk of a real program. WRONG on my part.

i guess we should never, ever underestimate the resources, interest, and reach of RedBull in any sport. And, clearly athletes like Hirscher, and HK are important to RedBull.

RedBull is a huge supporter of WC, and EC skiing. Huge sponsor of top athletes. They pick up a LOT of expenses. I would think that it’s in FIS’ best interests to work with them. I have no clue where the various federations stand on this.

FIS is a pretty arrogant organization. And having the owner of Head {actually the CEO and biggest stockholder} running FIS would seem to present an interesting conflict. I dunno.

Exciting day to day for VDRB, MH, HK and their team/organization! First of many I assume. And taping over the logo probably does create a lot of “buzz…..”

Yep, I COMPLETELY underestimated RB’s interest and investment. Have never once doubted the skis.

 

[fatbob]

Anyone with any insight know what Matescihtz's death does to Van Bull and indeed Red Bull's wider spankership in the ski and snowboard world. I'd assume everything was locked down contractually pretty tight and that Mateschitz would have left pretty direct instructions on his sporting legacies but when businesses pass on priorities can change?

 

[Andy Mink]

I would think that it’s in FIS’ best interests to work with them.

Absolutely. Ask 100 younger folks what the World Cup is or to name anyone involved beyond MS and you'll probably get a blank stare from 90. Ask them about Red Bull and maybe, MAYBE, 5 or 10 won't know. FIS needs the exposure in the US. Right now they're like F1: the relative few people know about it, the majority haven't a clue.

*These numbers have been pulled from thin air and only involve the US.

 

[Philpug]

I will send some of these to Albert and Dominic at Augment/RBVD

 

[Philpug]

Title updated to reflect the times.

 

[Primoz]

I have NEVER had a doubt that CROC….Augment….now VDRB…has, was, and could produce skis capable of WC success.

He probably meant me with "all those industry insiders who were adamant first that no way Red Bull was involved, then when it was revealed, claiming there was no way a basically unknown brand and the augment factory could produce WC winning skis ( especially since they were unobtanium) without having had a huge presence and extensive testing on the WC…..". Well they are still not WC winning skis for now And yes, I still think that there's no way you can produce decent skis in garage. You can make pair which fits one racer, but with normal companies, you have line of skis that fit everyone... from Shiffrin through Goggia to Kilde, or from Gut to Feuz, and all those other 30 medal winners in between. Doing this takes "slightly" more.

 

[James]

Maybe this means the US will get double the output next go around! To 400 pairs.

 

[Philpug]

Maybe this means the US will get double the output next go around! To 400 pairs.

I am expecting a serious focus on the US next year.

 

[slow-line-fast]

Compare the cost of maybe 5 inches of duct tape with media coverage you can find with keywords like überklebt, seems a good marketing investment

 

[Swede]

Will be interesting to see HK on a few different hills and conditions. He seemed to be kind of back on track last sesson with previous material, before that he was out in the weeds for a long time. He has had his own sponsors and pretty much gone his own way. Really like his skiing (when he’s dialed in).

 

[Petrus]

Apparently FIS introduced a new rule, on June 22nd, that you cannot have commercial sponsors on the skis for Alpine and XCountry.

Funny enough the same FIS allows sponsors on snowboards and jumping skis.

 

[Andy Mink]

Apparently FIS introduced a new rule, on June 22nd, that you cannot have commercial sponsors on the skis for Alpine and XCountry.

Funny enough the same FIS allows sponsors on snowboards and jumping skis.

View attachment 181311

But commercial sponsors are ok on helmets and hats (Barilla), Land Rover, Audi, etc. I imagine if Red Bull paid FIS they'd be perfectly happy.

 

[Primoz]

There's rule for at least alpine and xc (since forever) that no sponsors are allowed on skis, poles, boots... Sponsors (size of logo is pretty accurately defined) are allowed on helmets/caps and suits. I'm sure they will sooner or later figure out how to do it, but I agree that red bull on bottom of original Van Deer logo is a bit of a strech and hardly considered as Van Deer logo.

 

[Swiss Toni]

Red Bull owns 50% of VAN DEER-Red Bull Sports Equipment GmbH so they are probably considered to be an “Effective Manufacturer” rather than a sponsor. Presumably the FIS think that the inclusion of the red bull in the logo doesn’t comply with the Specifications for Commercial Markings on Equipment and the Specifications for Competition Equipment.

Chapter 2, para. 2.1.1 of the Specifications for Commercial Markings on Equipment states that:

“Skis, ski boots, bindings, ski poles, separate arm and leg protections and other hardware are permitted to be used at FIS competitions with their commercially available designs and may bear only the Manufacturer`s Identification as defined in the Specifications for Competition Equipment, Chapter A, para. 1.2”

Chapter A, para. 1.2 of the Specifications for Competition Equipment states that:

““Manufacturer’s Identification” means the trade name, brand, logo, or other designation of the Effective Manufacturer under which the particular Competition Equipment is manufactured and commercially offered to the market.
The Manufacturer’s Identification must be a sports equipment brand, which means that the Manufacturer’s Identification is principally used for Competition Equipment and is not principally used for non-sports equipment, and/or cannot be confused with a similar or identical article used in another line of business, unrelated to Competition Equipment.”

It also doesn’t look like there is enough space to fit “VAN DEER-Red Bull” under “Ski” on the results list.

 

[James]

This is like the line in the Meatloaf song-
“What’s it gonna be boy??”
“VanDeer? Or VanDeer-RedBull?”

-Let me sleep on it.

Maybe RedBull should get into making sure people can actually watch wcup racing in the US. No one, besides possibly a tiny bubble, thinks they suddenly make skis rather than an energy drink. No more than they’d think CocaCola makes skis, if suddenly Coca Cola bought 90% of Kastle.

“Get that can off there, we make skis now!”