What level of helmet thwack should retire a helmet?

[David]

Does anyone make a helmet that can absorb multiple hits like a hockey or football helmet? You'd think there'd be an absorbant substance that could return to its original shape to use again.

 

[jt10000]

People say the foam in bike helmets degrades over time w/o impact or mistreatment, but there's little evidence that's true, other than lots of people saying it. And at least one study saying it's not true. I'd assume ski helmets are the same.

NY Times on this.

ASME study abstract.

 

[raytseng]

Does anyone make a helmet that can absorb multiple hits like a hockey or football helmet? You'd think there'd be an absorbant substance that could return to its original shape to use again.

There are some helmet companies that have used EPP, which is a foam that will rebound back to it's shape versus EPS.
However, a manufacturer is in a tough spot, because infinite hits is impossible; so it is liability quagmire to even promise you that it can even absorb 2 hits even though multi-hit is the entire purpose and difference for using EPP instead of EPS for the foam liner.

POC and PRET i believe used to have EPP helmets, but maybe due to market forces my quick google shows they are using EPS in a lot of the product line.

If you google for EPP helmets maybe you can still find a few models. But if safety is the concern, you're still in the same boat after a crash and it is at your own risk. As there is no method to ensure the helmet is still protective. Nobody can vouch for you the helmet is OK or how much it has degraded; there is no test for this.

The best you can do is the crash warranty program where they'll give you a discount for a replacement (but often just the same or not as good as spring sales).

 

[crgildart]

Just put a sticker over it and call it good!

 

[Csr_jr]

I took a pop (one too many) this season. Not a great story- getting off the lift!!
One of the teens in my race group cut right to avoid a person that bailed on the exit ramp and my skis came right down on top of his. Couldn't stop of get them to edge as mine were trapped by his shovel.

Tails of the skis loaded up and propelled me backwards into the icy ramp. Bruised spine, bruised shoulder, whiplash and a concussion. Through a spine protector and a good PoC slalom helmet with extra foam in the rear of the hat.

I took that helmet straight out of circulation. Concussion took me a few weeks to fully clear (had a few decades ago back when we didnt count. The remedy then was a tall glass of suckitup... i like todays approach).

PoC extended me a great discount of 40% + 20% discount on a new Obex BC MiPS.

If you have a question on the helmet, reach out to the OEM to see if they have crash replacement. And use the money you save on a full time spine protector. I'm still in physio 13 weeks later (but skiing. Hey - can't always be learning, yo) and that spine protector saved me a fractured facet probably...

I'm trying to figure out a way this year I can get a promo going and get every teen that goes into the terrain park into a spine protector....

 

[David]

There are some helmet companies that have used EPP, which is a foam that will rebound back to it's shape versus EPS.
However, a manufacturer is in a tough spot, because infinite hits is impossible; so it is liability quagmire to even promise you that it can even absorb 2 hits even though multi-hit is the entire purpose and difference for using EPP instead of EPS for the foam liner.

POC and PRET i believe used to have EPP helmets, but maybe due to market forces my quick google shows they are using EPS in a lot of the product line.

If you google for EPP helmets maybe you can still find a few models. But if safety is the concern, you're still in the same boat after a crash and it is at your own risk. As there is no method to ensure the helmet is still protective. Nobody can vouch for you the helmet is OK or how much it has degraded; there is no test for this.

The best you can do is the crash warranty program where they'll give you a discount for a replacement (but often just the same or not as good as spring sales).

That's what I figured. Why can't they make them with air padding like football helmets? We payed with padded leather straps and survived just fine...

 

[dan ross]

The light weight of the helmet is considered a passive safety element- the lower weight helps prevent neck injuries. The trade off is a less durable shell but a suspension system designed in part to offset that. It’s also marketing and consumer preference-people prefer light weight. In the one DH race I ran in the late 70’s we wore Snell approved 3/4 motorcycle helmets. Heavy but strong.
( no helmets then even for SL and GS )

 

[Novaloafah]

Just seeing this thread now and it's very interesting. Some really good advice that a lot of sport helmet users don't normally get or choose to ignore.
I do some work with aircrew helmets and while every type of helmet for a sport differs somewhat in the suspension system, protective liner/padding and the shell I would say there are a few things that are exactly the same.
Fit is critical for the protection to meet the standard, too large, slack chin strap, altering the interior liner, likely reduces protection (by likely I'm 95% confident it does)
Protective padding/liners all pack out over time, obvious but some folk will wear running shoes for years and wonder why their feet hurt. This means it likely isn't meeting the original protective level. The topic of an extra layer for warmth is interesting. My experience is that it wouldn't hurt as long as fit is still good. I wear a beanie with helmet for work (or used to) and it was fine. I don't think a ski helmet would be much different but the hood comment on warmth is the way to go IMO
Shells are designed to blunt impact and keep clumsy folk from hurting themselves on sharp/blunt objects. For weight, comfort, and cost they are mostly designed to meet a standard with as light a material as possible. If you take a hit that rings your bell, that shell likely doesn't meet the protective standard it was designed to. Unless you have a way to inspect it, take the pass and buy a new one. Over time, chucking it in the trunk, packing it in a bag, etc puts cumulative wear on it and at some point has the same effect as a single sharp/forceful impact.

So new helmet was a good call

 

[dovski]

So a couple things about helmets:

1. They all have an expiration date. In other words you need to swap out your helmet every couple of years as the foam and integrity degrade over time
2. Those GoPros every one mounts to their helmets actually create a pressure point on the helmet that do not perform well on impact. Some helmets now come with special breakaway mounts for cameras so mounting one will not ruin the helmets integrity.
3. A lot of brands (i.e. Smith and Sweet Protection) will give you a pretty big discount if you need to replace your helmet after a crash. like 35-40%

According to most manufacturers when it comes to crashes your helmet is one and done ... and they will give you big discounts to replace it with a new one, so you so not have to wait for those sales.

 

[Andy Mink]

Those GoPros every one mounts

On DOT helmets GoPros or other bits that stick up more than 5mm take the helmet out of DOT compliance.

 

[jt10000]

So a couple things about helmets:

1. They all have an expiration date. In other words you need to swap out your helmet every couple of years as the foam and integrity degrade over time

This is conventional wisdom about cycling helmets: the foam degrades over time so helmets should be replaced regularly. It makes sense intuitively, is stated or implied by brands, and is repeated all over the place.

But the best evidence - an actual study of possible degradation - says it's not true. And here's an article with more on that.

Ski helmets might be different; I don't know. But I'd take the CW with a huge grain of salt. In any case, I find it wild if they should be replaced "every couple of years." That's a remarkably short lifespan.

Protective padding/liners all pack out over time, obvious but some folk will wear running shoes for years and wonder why their feet hurt. This means it likely isn't meeting the original protective level. The

The hard foam that, together with the shell, provides protections in helmets does not pack out over time. No way.

It is totally different than the foam in running shoes which has to compress and rebound many times every minutes.

Most liners are only for fit, not protection by compression. Perhaps MIPs-style liners change over time, but "packing out" from just wearing a modern helmet is not a thing.

 

[dovski]

This is conventional wisdom about cycling helmets: the foam degrades over time so helmets should be replaced regularly. It makes sense intuitively, is stated or implied by brands, and is repeated all over the place.

But the best evidence - an actual study of possible degradation - says it's not true. And here's an article with more on that.

Ski helmets might be different; I don't know. But I'd take the CW with a huge grain of salt. In any case, I find it wild if they should be replaced "every couple of years." That's a remarkably short lifespan.

This was a good read and thank you for sharing. So my takeaway is that while the foam does degrade, other parts of the helmet due like the shell if exposed to UV rays. So for the active skier who gets a lot of days each season, they need to inspect their helmet to insure the shell and straps maintain their integrity ... oh and helmets are single use when it comes to crashes

 

[OldJeep]

My .02. if there is a dent in the shell or a dent/crack in the foam then it needs to be replaced.

 

[OldJeep]

... oh and helmets are single use when it comes to crashes

That would get really expensive if you raced

 

[jt10000]

This was a good read and thank you for sharing. So my takeaway is that while the foam does degrade, other parts of the helmet due like the shell if exposed to UV rays.

The articles I shared don't say those other parts necessarily degrade in a meaningful way. They say it's possible they will, particularly with difficult conditions and, as you say, inspection is needed.

Replacing every two years as policy though? No. No way.

 

[crgildart]

Say you dropped your helmet in the parking lot fumbling around with your gear... Maybe a thin crack or deep scratch? Replace it? Or does it only count if your head was in it to smash the styrofoam?

 

[Rudi Riet]

That would get really expensive if you raced

Ski racing helmets have far more beefy shells than freeride and recreational helmets. They don't use microshell technology that makes the helmet lighter. They seldom have any ventilation. The shell is meant to protect from severe impact - nothing more, nothing less.

And in reference to @Andy Mink's note about GoPro mounts taking DOT helmets out of compliance: the same applies to said mounts on FIS homologated racing helmets. Per section 3.6.4 of the FIS Specifications for Alpine Competition Equipment:

3.6.4 Alteration/modification/additional element
The helmets shall be used without alteration/modification, as certified by the manufacturer. Furthermore, no additional element/equipment shall be affixed on the surface of the helmet.

So any kind of mount - GoPro or otherwise - is verboten.

 

[Rudi Riet]

Say you dropped your helmet in the parking lot fumbling around with your gear... Maybe a thin crack or deep scratch? Replace it? Or does it only count if your head was in it to smash the styrofoam?

Replace, especially if cracked. That crack means the energy dissipation system is compromised.

 

[David]

My helmet has taken a few hard hits over the last couple of years but I can see no sign of damage to the shell or the styrofoam. I wonder if there is or can be a better way to inspect them?

 

[jt10000]

Say you dropped your helmet in the parking lot fumbling around with your gear... Maybe a thin crack or deep scratch? Replace it? Or does it only count if your head was in it to smash the styrofoam?

If dropping an unloaded helmet a couple times undermined its integrity, I don't see how it could be particularly protective of my head.