What to focus on next: carving or off-piste?

[slowrider]

Leave your ego at the lodge.

 

[BMC]

I think of the intent in the statement as more directed toward people who insist they're skilled skiers that feel they don't need 'lessons' because they're plenty good enough already, and bumps would indeed reveal their tecnical shortcomings.

For those with the humility to say, " I'm a pretty good skier, but i need to work on bumps", then yes, it would seem a pretty arrogant thing to say. I've taught steeps clinics with people who were only attending because they want their ed credits. They're awfully certain they don't need coaching. Classic case was with a guy who was uncoachable until about 1:45 in the afternoon. He was very physically fit, etc... and relied on that to ski. He finally wondered why he was the only one left huffing and puffing.

"I can help you with that. Give me two minutes."

He made the changes (finally) and hopefully in the process had a cognitive breakthrough that will allow him be more open to coaching in the future. Anyhow....

What’s an “Ed credit”? Just curious.

 

[LiquidFeet]

What’s an “Ed credit”? Just curious.

PSIA instructors are required to take one PSIA clinic (a professional development type course) every two years to maintain their membership (in addition to paying dues). That course gives them the required educational credit.

 

[LiquidFeet]

I think of the intent in the statement as more directed toward people who insist they're skilled skiers that feel they don't need 'lessons' because they're plenty good enough already, and bumps would indeed reveal their tecnical shortcomings.
....

When I first started skiing, I joined a ski club and skied with a group of the members every weekend. These people were committed skiers. They raced five times a season in the ski club league. They skied every weekend; they loved to ski fast and they loved going on the steepest groomers. A few of them liked to ski very fast through the crowds of slow novices on the beginner slopes while laughingly calling them "moving gates." They considered themselves experts.

And they never skied bumps.

When I recognized how dangerous their approach to skiing was, I quit the club ... and became an instructor. I quickly learned from training that they were on the terminal intermediate plateau along with most other recreational skiers. They were just more aggressive with speed.

These people fall into the category of deluded skiers thinking too highly of their skill level.
But proclaiming they can't ski and the bumps prove it would be inaccurate. They could ski. Just not at the expert level. It's fun to say and saying it gets a laugh, but the same goes for calling slow novices "moving gates."

Just my opinion.

 

[rustypouch]

I've never liked that statement. It's funny, but it reeks of arrogance and one-upmanship. Sounds just like Josh, who is often credited with its origin.

I doubt that those who quote it here on this forum actually hold those sentiments. But I think that's how the statement would come across to a person being told they can't ski and the bumps prove it.

You sound like you can't ski bumps.

But seriously, it might be arrogant, but it's not wrong. Bumps are about being able to apply the fundamentals in varied conditions. Without strong fundamentals, you will struggle in the bumps. So many people don't get this, and I often get pushback from guests who want to ski bumps, but lack fundamentals and aren't willing to work on them.

 

[Lvovsky /Pasha/Pavel]

.

I also have access to Alpental (part of the same resort) which has a lot of steep slopes. I can do half the trails on that but it's not pretty by any means. My dream is to go down those fluidly and smoothly one day. It'll make me happy!

Tell your instructor exactly that!

 

[markojp]

Trouble is out west, if you don't / can't ski bumps and off piste, youve eliminated about 70% of the skiable terrain.

 

[4ster]

As to the statement “It’s not that you can’t ski bumps, it’s that you can’t ski & bumps prove it”. l get that it sounds harsh & l would probably not say it to another skier directly unless we were very familiar but there is a lot of truth to it. If I had a dollar for every skier I’ve coached who said “I ski everything on the mountain pretty well but l struggle in the bumps”… well you know .
During my teaching years this skier demographic was my bread & butter & it seemed like my Director thought I was the “go to” guy for it. Fact is I don’t really consider myself a bump skier but I knew what skills & movements needed to be developed to gain proficiency there. I also needed to gain buy in from the student on the proper path to get there.
These sessions usually consisted of some correctional, then developmental phases on groomers with stints of tactical application in actual moguls progressively steeper & deeper.

I think the OP should be commended for having realistic expectations & the willingness to improve his skills in an appropriate & progressive manner.

 

[Crank]

I brought that "Joshism" up, and yes it can sound arrogant and I would never say it to someone unless I was joshing them. Pun intended.

But I brought it up because I have seen many terminal intermediates who go fast on groomers and think they can ski completely fall apart off the groom.

I am also of a mindset that thinks one must ski bumps in order to ski bumps.

 

[Pete in Idaho]

My 2 cents. Warm up on groomers and make short, med. and long radius turns. Pick an intermediate pitch and make med radius turns ( say 10-20) and make the last turn the same speed as the lst turns and middle turns. Not as easy as it sounds. Then go to an off piste run that will challenge you and ski it 2 or 3 times. The lst time you will be apprehensive and not too good, improvement on the 2nd time and even more on the 3rd time. Confidence is a big part of skiing steeper terrain. The best tips I have ever been given: a) no park and ride-when you finish a turn start the next one, b) be pole ready always-more important on steep terrain-pole down the hill not just in front of you.

 

[Chris V.]

Clearly solid short radius turns are the first requirement. The other day I was out with a friend who has had multiple days of lessons with a real short turn specialist. I said, let's do some short turns. He said, I can't do short turns. After all that, LOL. I expect many skiers have emotional barriers to making the quick and intense movements needed for short turns, apart from the need for a lot of mileage doing them. When on groomers, it's so much easier to get lazy and only do medium to long radius turns

 

[Blue Streak]

I can ski most groomed terrain (blue / black) comfortably but would love to improve my technique on groomers.

Most of us revert to movement patterns that are “comfortable,” which is the great impediment to developing new skills.
Getting out of one’s comfort zone is key to learning new movement patterns.
But refining skills must first take place on suitable (meaning unintimidating) terrain, and many clients don’t have the patience (or a secure enough ego) to do so.

 

[Jerez]

pole down the hill not just in front of you.

Amazing how when someone is told to plant their pole "down the hill," they put it out by the tips of their skis. They think they are putting it downhill but they aren't, just forward. (It's sort of like absorption in bumps. When you first start, you have to do it so that it feels extreme/stupid and even then, you're probably still only doing it halfway.) Plant that sucker WAAAY down the hill, down the fall-line.

I remember a wonderful teacher telling us about "Frog and Flashlight." I still use it when I am nervous or feel over my head in steeps. Hard to describe but I'll try.

The very top of the pole handle on the uphill pole is the flashlight. Shine that flashlight down the hill on the imaginary "frog" in the middle of your planned turn. Then stab that poor froggie with the tip of your downhill pole and turn around it. That does two things. Makes sure you reach Down the hill and also helps you counter by forcing your uphill arm and shoulder to face the fall-line.

 

[Pete in Idaho]

Yep Jerez. Down the hill really applies the steeper it is the more is applies. Taught to me by Wade Holiday, pro skier, friend and he applied it to me in the chutes under Lincoln chair at Sugarbowl and I still use almost every day I ski, "Pete, be pole ready".

A principle I use almost every day I ski. In the trees, don't look at the trees or tree you are to go around. Look at the Gaps that you are going to ski. I have mentioned this in ski conversation over the years and have had people laugh at me and say "duh". No it is not duh it is meant for fun and survival and part of any good tree skiers arsenal.

 

[Yepow]

Wade, my model for good skiing!

 

[Jerez]

Yep Jerez. Down the hill really applies the steeper it is the more is applies. Taught to me by Wade Holiday, pro skier, friend and he applied it to me in the chutes under Lincoln chair at Sugarbowl and I still use almost every day I ski, "Pete, be pole ready".

A principle I use almost every day I ski. In the trees, don't look at the trees or tree you are to go around. Look at the Gaps that you are going to ski. I have mentioned this in ski conversation over the years and have had people laugh at me and say "duh". No it is not duh it is meant for fun and survival and part of any good tree skiers arsenal.

Haha. I first learned Frog and Flashlight at Sugarbowl!

 

[Pete in Idaho]

Haha. I first learned Frog and Flashlight at Sugarbowl!

Yes, small world it is......

 

[razie]

The road to off piste involves good carving skills.

Example from a week-long advanced-expert level off piste course, first day schedule: carving and finding grip. Here bigger problem is finding groomers to work on that

 

[MarkG]

Think Plake gave us the if you can’t ski bumps quote.

gotta say much of the variable off piste stuff that I ski…carving simply would take too long for the skis to come around. I’m in the learn to release those edges and pivot, slide your way around. Fore/aft pressure is pretty important here too I think.

bumps are almost always there. At least I hope they are

take that for what it’s worth. I’m a total hack. Lol

 

[4ster]

Think Plake gave us the if you can’t ski bumps quote.

I think you’re right.

gotta say much of the variable off piste stuff that I ski…carving simply would take too long for the skis to come around. I’m in the learn to release those edges and pivot, slide your way around. Fore/aft pressure is pretty important here too I think.

I guess it depends on folk’s definition of carving. This video does a great job of defining how I have always thought about it.
You really only need to view the first couple of min to get the idea…