What will help the sport of skiing grow?

[crgildart]

Resorts need to offer better beginner programs like three days of lessons for the current price of one or free beginner lift tickets and rentals with purchase of lessons.

If your disposable income is not adequate to ski anything but the super good end of season learn to ski deals we don't get people coming back in the fall. The costs for skiing on a regular basis is what needs to come down if annual household income is not going up.

 

[Fishbowl]

Like it or not, ski schools are in direct competition with You Tube instruction and ski equipment that is increasingly user friendly. The “Just Do It” crowd don’t see organized lessons as a cool way to try the sport. The old model of ski schools is stagnent and resorts will need to embrace newer concepts if they expect to survive. Bottom line, Millennials care more about taking a cool selfie at the top of the hill than they do about getting down, at least as beginners. There is still profit to be made, but it no longer lies in the old methods.

 

[fatbob]

I just don't see millenial parents (assuming non skiers) being the ones to make a difference , indeed I know plenty of very keen skiers who've basically had a ski sabbatical for a number of years once kids arrived (bearing in mind all skiing is a flight or day's drive where I live). So yes ski clubs, youth groups, resort subsidised.

 

[Caterham]

In many ways this story is not much different from 20 years ago. The industry looked to Disneyland as a model for "entertaining" large crowds. My story then (I wrote two articles, The Religion of Skiing and The Chuches of Skiing) is same as now. People will not endure the challenges to participate in the activity if the activity doesn't provide a greater reward than the sum of all costs to participate; dollars, time, emotional stress, etc. Mere entertainment won't win. Not enough emotional reward to justify the logistical and financial cost factors. (Psychologist Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi's, famous for his investigations of "optimal experience " and Flow) also writes about how choice-based efforts are based in energy management and that efforts are invested into activities that are expected to result in desired energy rewards. Not enough energy reward for an energy expenditure drops it from future participation.)

Oddly, what I believe people will endure the challenges to participate if they get exactly what form this activity is typically categorized as, and seemingly not really paid attention to, is "recreation", or more clearly,Re-Creation." Many people know what I'm talking about. They feel a deeply fulfilling experience in their day of skiing. It's an important connection to self, nature, friends, family, a higher power, etc. Re-Connection. Replace "connection" with "legion" (Latin origin similar to a large "we") and we have Religion! Reconnect to the larger we! Ski/ride area/resorts can then be thought of as churches. The places we congregate to share and build our reconnectedness. What do these churches preach now vs what preaching/experiences could they provide that gives more re-creation? The analogy grows from there. I can send copies of articles if interested.

One thing I'd add is that free time AND discretionary income are both less available in many ways for more numbers in the younger generations than when older generations were in their same time-place. The more our society can escape from the capitalistic burden of "work-more, play-less", the better off the ski industry, and our society, will be. All the other fixes suggested, IMHO, are short-term band-aids at best.

 

[Philpug]

My son @Tyler Pugliese is a Millenial..even thought he doesn't like to be labled as one. He grew up skiing, even though we were in Pa, he rarely skied there, maybe a 2 dozen days in his life. Most of his skiing was in either New England or West. Gear? Let's just say being my son, he was never lacking on the gear front. Now, he is a big wig at a Bay Area tech company with access to our gear, (surprise) and a place to stay here in Tahoe and all he has to do is buy a lift ticket, there was even a year where we bought a him a pass that he barely used. So, even in the past years with him being close he rarely skis...just because of other options, life, getting out of the city to get here amongst the long list of things none of which include the lack of love for the sport. Will that change once his life evolves? Maybe. Like many others that come on to the site after a decade or two hiatus, while we need to hope the millenials come back, we need to acknowledge hope is not a plan and need to be proactive in getting them to come back.

 

[DanoT]

If you ask the question "Where is the ski industry most successful?", the answer is Europe.

I have never been to Europe so I am not all that knowledgeable but I do know:

Way more people live close to the ski resorts in Europe than North America.

Europeans get way more vacations than North Americans.

Skiing costs more in N.A.

The food is way better in the Alps.

Some of the above the ski resorts in N.A. can emulate, some not.

Automation is likely to cause more free time for people but that just means less work and less disposable cash for many.

 

[karlo]

First and foremost, more snow. Very hard for folks, especially those who have never skied, if folks rarely experience snow and begin thinking of possibilities. When I was young, there would be lots of snow, lingering for prolonged period of time. Not anymore.

Then, cost. Once the sport is considered, it needs to be affordable, especially to newcomers.

 

[Eleeski]

Europe also has great train service to the mountains. With so much discussion here about traffic and travel issues, I wonder if a bullet train from the population centers to the resorts might be the best way to grow the sport. Especially if it's a party train. Reliable access matters.

Eric

 

[SBrown]

It is pretty funny to see Resort That Charges $180 for Daily Lift Ticket asking the question Why Don't Younger People Come Here Anymore?

 

[fatbob]

Plus there is another important point here. That article has tipped me over the cranky reactionary old geezer line. Anyone who thinks paddleboard yoga is a thing doesn't deserve the magic of skiing

 

[LKLA]

I agree that cost is a big impediment - always tends to be. But, while the cost of a lift ticket or a season pass is not cheap, I don't think it's the cost of skiing itself that is the issue. Rather, I think it is the "all-in" cost that can become an issue for people, in particular for millennials who tend to have less discretionary income.

With season passes like the Epic Pass affording a break-even point after just 6-9 days of skiing (depends on resort, peak/low season, adult /child), skiing itself is not all that expensive. Even if you purchase day lift tickets for $80-$100, that is still not a terribly expensive proposition, considering how much a four hour round of golf at a decent course often costs (around $100 where I live in the NYC area) or how much it costs to rent a tennis court for just a couple of hours (around $100 where I live in the NYC area).

What I think happens is that all the other costs begin to add-up.The majority of skiers are not driving 1-2 hours to a mountain (most people will drive under an hour to play golf and 5-15 minutes to play tennis). For a lot people, skiing requires spending a fair amount of time driving and that means money on gas, tolls, parking...and in some cases may require an overnight stay. Lodging at ski resorts is not cheap, at least not near the mountain, and it can equate to as much, if not more, than the cost of skiing itself. And, while many skiers bring their lunch, it is not always the case since carrying your lunch around as you ski is not that easy or attractive for many people. Food at ski resorts is not cheap either (nothing is), so you can easily spend a fair amount on food.

Then you have equipment costs. All you need for tennis is a $100 racket, some tennis balls and sneakers. For golf a $500 set of clubs will often do the trick. Skiing equipment can get very expensive once you add up the cost of skis, bindings, poles, pants, boots, helmet, gloves..., And, skis need to be waxed/maintained and a lot of ski equipment tends to have a fairly short life span (3-5-10 years max).

But studies show that cost is not as much of a factor as weather / conditions. And we all know what has happened - increased weather volatility. While the average person may be open to spend gin money to go skiing, if they have a bad experience, they will likely not go back, at least not for some time. When it comes to skiing, weather matters more than just about in any other sport (no one likes to play golf or ride a bike in the rain but people do - you can play golf or ride a bike in a huge temp/weather variance). And while snow making can often mitigate the impact of lack of snow, it can not offset temperatures above freezing.

Millennials happen to be a demo group that also has more options today than folks there age had in the past as it relates to how to fill their free time. Travel is cheaper and more efficient, technology has made entertainment such as video games and movies more engrossing and accessible, as well as changed the way millennials socialize (chat on Facebook vs getting together in person). Even as it relates to sports, millennials have gravitated to other sports like triathlon, mountain biking, adventure racing, mixed martial arts, yoga, cross fit,...all of which were not very popular 30, 20 or even 10 years ago.

Below is graph that shows annual skier visits across the four major US ski areas over the past 20 years. On average, the results are flat at best (some growth in the Rockies, flat in the Midwest and down in the East and the Pacific).

 

[BS Slarver]

Here are your answers

First, the USA vs. Europe thing is two fold.
Switzerland, Italy and Austria all subsidizes their ski industries, to them it like football to most Americans. Combine that with a lack of trial lawyers and lawsuits helps keep the cost in check.
Additionally all of these countries, been to all three, work with farmers and towns with the lift infrastructure that operate year round, the also accommodate hikers, mountain bikers and climbers in the summer.
Typically those who partake in the alpine environment in Europe are more physically fit then their American counterparts IMHO.

*** side note rant .... why on a domestic flight do you get charged for crap food on plastic plates with sh*t service ? The minute your even outbound to Europe out come the beers, wines and real food on real plates with real utensils. Not traveling abroad and already there ? I've had food and beverage service one a 1hr flight from Vienna !

Alright..... back on topic, The states side story.

1 Trial lawyers. The last stat I heard was +/- 51% of your ticket is insurance.
2. No subsidies from the states that I'm aware of.
3. The obesity rate that's climbing in this country keeps most people away before they even give it a chance.
Competing with places like Disney World and water parks not to mention cruise lines where you're graising on or you can eat all day compete for that vacation dollar.

You want me to go out in the cold and embarrass myself and possibly get injured is something that goes through most never ever skiers minds before they even get started. Look at our return skier rates, it is dismal.
Add the rising cost of snowmaking, the need to compete with new higher speed lifts and guest services to satisfy even the non skier and spa companion and there ya go !

 

[Goose]

I can think of a hundred reasons why skiing never was nor ever will be a dominant form of recreation for most people among the genral masses. And honestly, many of those same reasons will counteract most anything one might do to try to grow it.

Skiing is not....
..practical,
..easily accessible,
..cheap,
..easily done,
..warm weathered,
..lacking of required time,
..lacking of required income,
..lacking of required efforts and all else mentioned especially for a family.

How can it be grown? Imo all one can do is market it as much as possible and even then if it falls on deaf ears it isn't going to matter much. Imo you market it (but who will pay for that) and hope you gain an interest from a percentage who now don't ski but will have the desire and opportunities to overcome all the things mentioned in order to do so. Honestly the return on the marketing expense may not be worthwhile and may increase the expense of the recreation in which it was trying to grow in the first place therefore making it even less accessible than it is now.

basically I don't think there is a real answer that would do any miracles. Perhaps do as much as possible to get as many kids involved as you can. I suppose that would be the best route.

 

[allgash]

Europe also has great train service to the mountains. With so much discussion here about traffic and travel issues, I wonder if a bullet train from the population centers to the resorts might be the best way to grow the sport. Especially if it's a party train. Reliable access matters.

Eric

Transportation is definitely an issue for younger people, and one that is often overlooked. Younger people are increasingly moving to cities, or staying in cities when their parents would have moved out to the suburbs. With services like Uber and Lyft becoming so ubiquitous, more young people in or around cities are forgoing cars for public transportation. Having reliable transit options to the mountains would help get a lot of young people onto the slopes. As great as trains would be, they generally don't make sense (maybe into LCC/BCC in SLC, or to the Front Range from Denver/Boulder?) - buses are usually more than adequate.

I'm in the Boston area, and the commuter rail now runs to Wachusett (a local feeder hill) on the weekends, but the problem is that the mountain opens at 8am, and if you take the train you can't get onto the slopes until about 10:30am, just when the mountain is starting to get crowded. Even though I live relatively close to a train stop, I would rather drive.

It is pretty funny to see Resort That Charges $180 for Daily Lift Ticket asking the question Why Don't Younger People Come Here Anymore?

This is probably the biggest reason. Underemployment, wages that aren't rising to meet increased housing prices, and increasing student loans mean less disposable income for many younger people. I am fortunate to have a job that allows me to afford to go skiing (albeit on a budget), but many of my friends honestly couldn't afford to ski. Even if they could buy season passes or buy skis or do other things to lower the cost per day, if you're a beginner how do you even get into the sport?

Plus there is another important point here. That article has tipped me over the cranky reactionary old geezer line. Anyone who thinks paddleboard yoga is a thing doesn't deserve the magic of skiing

I know you are joking, but the two are not mutually exclusive my SO likes paddleboard yoga AND skiing! I love paddleboarding (though I'm not a huge yoga fan) and I love skiing. If I had to guess, I would actually imagine that paddleboard yoga and skiing are weakly positively correlated, just because both are outdoor activities that require some level of physical fitness.

 

[Snowfan]

Parents taking their kids skiing and making it fun. We have a generation of sedentary, obese and forgotten kids whose parents don't work towards doing outdoor activities as a family unit. Rather, they allow them to waste their lives staring at screens. And that's our future. YUK.

Posted while staring at screen. Dangit.

 

[Guy in Shorts]

We bought a large 4 bedroom house in ski country that sleep 17 just so family and friends would have place to come stay and play. Sharing our passion for skiing with all that come to the mountains. Doing everything to pass on our joy of the winter season will help be part of the solution.

 

[Blue Streak]

Get rid of snowboards, the word "dude," marijuana, baggy pants, and $175 lift tickets.
In other words, go back to 1973
But seriously, I think we live in the golden age of skiing in many ways.
The sad part is that we have lost so many of the small local hills and the joy of skiing for skiing's sake.

 

[BlueSquare]

I don't have many ideas to make skiing more affordable or convenient for the younger generations but have some ideas as to make it more fun and interactive for them.

Resorts could create on-mountain social media zones in safe, scenic spots with the resort's iconic logo placed somewhere in the background. Maybe have a fixed camera there for an automated selfie that kids can scan their phones to download their photo from, so they can then insta or snap it to all their friends. Another idea, have some brag zones placed in difficult (but not extreme) spots they'd have to ski down to in order to get their awesome selfie.

Just imagine if resorts had state-of-the-art apps and stocked an extensive inventory, where kids can customize their rental gear just like they can customize their avatar in a video game, before they even get there and have it all ready for pick up. They could choose the style and color of their helmets, jackets, pants, skis, boards. And the more times they came as tracked by the app, the more customizable options they got. And if they got to Platinum level, they can finally rent the "Legendary" skis, duds, etc. Whooah!!! Lots of things are customizable for modern kids now, like NIKEiD shoes and Oakley sunglasses, so why not let kids customize their ski experience and offer rewards for repeated business?

Many will hate this idea, but resorts may consider expanding their terrain parks. Have beginner zones with cushioned landing pads. And for the half pipe and terrain course, let the kids scan in with their favorite Spotify tune, which will then blast from on-slope speakers while they skied the course/pipe. Would be noise pollution for us older skiers but could be fun for the young crowd. Better yet, if resorts installed an overhead view cam that trailed you as you went down the course, how cool would it be for the kid to be able to download his result and compare it to say his online avatar on Steep or the resort's own iPhone game? The vid would provide details on time as well as jump heights, and your online friends could score your run. Sort of like measuring your real world results against virtual reality.

Or how about if resorts just had an app that offered up a virtual trail map that could somewhat accurately track your runs on marked trails. If the person finished all the resort's green runs, they got a voucher for one free intermediate group lesson. If the individual had finished all the resort's blue runs, they'd get a voucher for one free advanced group lesson. And son on, or any type of reward. Not only would it give a skier some measure of pride to check off all the resort's runs (possible for them) off their list, one could also visually see how much of the mountain(s) they've skied or haven't yet. It may incentivize someone to keep returning until they've colored in all the runs on the virtual trail map.

Anyways, just thought I'd throw some young customer experience ideas out there.

 

[Eleeski]

@BlueSquare Awesome and creative ideas!

 

[CrystalRose]

@BlueSquare love the username and avatar! I like your ideas too. Vail already has something similar with EpicMix. You can log in and see what lifts you've ridden and they give "trophies" for thing like "Ridden same chair 5 times in a row", "Rode every chair at X resort", etc. It's a sort of fun way to track yourself at the resort. You can add a picture and friends to compete against/track. I can't see why it couldn't be expanded to be more interactive and include more social media.