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Where do you see most performance plateaus occur?

Aquila

Getting on the lift
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Lift the whole ski, not just the tail. Keep the ski parallel to the snow.
Lifting the tail only does not promote a carve. It tends to generate a "brushed" turn.
If you can lift the tail, then you can lift the entire ski.
Ah, well I am definitely still doing brushed turns, so that makes sense - I'll try advancing my one-ski technique to lift the entire ski up :)

Great! Realize this exercise is to begin to be able to modulate pressure at will. Describe what "learn to carve properly" means to you. What is the goal? What do you want the skis to do? What does the turn look like?
Great question. I may have a bit of a vague goal when you put it like that! I'd say I want to be able to do skiing which is visually recognisable as carving. I know I'm not, because sometimes when I'm skiing and I'm thinking WOW I THINK I AM CARVING??, I get a friend to take a video of me and discover that in fact, no - not even close!! I think the turns should be rounder, cleaner, less snow spray at the ends which would mean that I'm not skidding the skis halfway through the turn. The skis should tip on edge and the tails should be following the tips, and the skis should be following a curve to the outside of my body as I go through a turn (so there is a little bit of angulation and inclination).
 

geepers

Skiing the powder
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Ah, well I am definitely still doing brushed turns, so that makes sense - I'll try advancing my one-ski technique to lift the entire ski up :)


Great question. I may have a bit of a vague goal when you put it like that! I'd say I want to be able to do skiing which is visually recognisable as carving. I know I'm not, because sometimes when I'm skiing and I'm thinking WOW I THINK I AM CARVING??, I get a friend to take a video of me and discover that in fact, no - not even close!! I think the turns should be rounder, cleaner, less snow spray at the ends which would mean that I'm not skidding the skis halfway through the turn. The skis should tip on edge and the tails should be following the tips, and the skis should be following a curve to the outside of my body as I go through a turn (so there is a little bit of angulation and inclination).

The evidence should be written in the snow.
 

Wilhelmson

Making fresh tracks
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May 2, 2017
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4,348
Ah, well I am definitely still doing brushed turns, so that makes sense - I'll try advancing my one-ski technique to lift the entire ski up :)


Great question. I may have a bit of a vague goal when you put it like that! I'd say I want to be able to do skiing which is visually recognisable as carving. I know I'm not, because sometimes when I'm skiing and I'm thinking WOW I THINK I AM CARVING??, I get a friend to take a video of me and discover that in fact, no - not even close!! I think the turns should be rounder, cleaner, less snow spray at the ends which would mean that I'm not skidding the skis halfway through the turn. The skis should tip on edge and the tails should be following the tips, and the skis should be following a curve to the outside of my body as I go through a turn (so there is a little bit of angulation and inclination).
There are different level anyways. I bet you carve sometimes. Just look back at your tracks now and then. Ski width makes a difference too. Of course some experts can carve on wooden skis but that not us.

But yeah one ski up is a great exercise. Go both ways maybe even spin on one foot -carefull of the knees Especially on the boring early season days or with a slow group.
 

LiquidFeet

instructor
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Ah, well I am definitely still doing brushed turns, so that makes sense - I'll try advancing my one-ski technique to lift the entire ski up :)


Great question. I may have a bit of a vague goal when you put it like that! I'd say I want to be able to do skiing which is visually recognisable as carving. I know I'm not, because sometimes when I'm skiing and I'm thinking WOW I THINK I AM CARVING??, I get a friend to take a video of me and discover that in fact, no - not even close!! I think the turns should be rounder, cleaner, less snow spray at the ends which would mean that I'm not skidding the skis halfway through the turn. The skis should tip on edge and the tails should be following the tips, and the skis should be following a curve to the outside of my body as I go through a turn (so there is a little bit of angulation and inclination).
If you are on hard snow that skis can leave an imprint on, then you'll be able to see pencil-thin tracks if you are really carving. It leaves a different type of track. And carving is fast because friction is reduced to a bare minimum. If you get a carve going, you will definitely feel a quantum difference in the way the skis behave on the snow. Did I say you'll be going fast? Speed control options that won't erase the carve will be to shorten the turn radius and fully complete the turn. If you can manage this, you'll still be going very fast, but most of that fast travel will be heading across and around instead of down.

A brushed/skidded turn, on the other hand, if done in a way that uses the ski's self-turning capabilities, is a more reasonable turn for most instances because it does not get you going race-fast. This turn will feature the skis doing the turning without a pivot entry. It's the all-purpose groomer turn of choice. Such a turn will grip the snow well after the fall line, and it won't be as fast as a carved turn.
 
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mister moose

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Killington
I end up with that classic kind of issue of bringing the ski around a bit too quick while getting it up on edge a bit too quick (I think the two go together), resulting in a lack of continuous edge grip and skidding the ends of the turns. The turns all start okay and then sort of go wrong partway through.

I'm getting there, slowly, with lessons

Great question. I may have a bit of a vague goal when you put it like that! I'd say I want to be able to do skiing which is visually recognisable as carving. I know I'm not, because sometimes when I'm skiing and I'm thinking WOW I THINK I AM CARVING??, I get a friend to take a video of me and discover that in fact, no - not even close!! I think the turns should be rounder, cleaner, less snow spray at the ends which would mean that I'm not skidding the skis halfway through the turn. The skis should tip on edge and the tails should be following the tips, and the skis should be following a curve to the outside of my body as I go through a turn (so there is a little bit of angulation and inclination).

Worthy goals, good description, rounder, cleaner should be in your immediate sights. Forget about what you look like. Concentrate on what the skis do on the snow. The fact that you are skidding halfway in the turn indicates... what? Are you in a hurry to make the turn happen? Why?

I think it starts farther back. I think your turn initiation leads you away from carving and into skidding. Spend a lot of time on an uncrowded slope very easy for you. Round out the turns, feel the edges bite. Round out the beginning as well as the middle and the end. Be patient. Follow the edges, do not flatten and swish. At the end of the turn, do not "get the turn started, do not "bring the skis around." Leave that behind for now. As you finish the turn, come over your skis and roll evenly, smoothly, both skis rolling in unison onto the new edges. That's all. Feel the new edge bite the snow. Stay on that edge. Be an ice skate, not a toboggan. As the turn starts to happen, let the pressure build. Then slowly release, flatten the ski still riding the edge, and roll onto the other edges for the next turn. After a while, play with higher and lower edge angles to modify the turn radius. On a gentle slope, you might only make turns 20 degrees each way. It's important to find the edges such that you feel zero skid, zero slippage. Worry less about turn radius. If you need to, stop and start over. If you can't keep from going too fast, find a gentler slope.

As you go a little faster, as you pressure the skis more and bend them, as you tip the skis more, the radius decreases. Forces will build exponentially. So it gets harder in a hurry.

It's good that you're taking lessons. Ask your instructor to teach you "railroad tracks"
 
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mdf

entering the Big Couloir
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Team Gathermeister
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Okay, I couldn't help it. Steve Herrell update, from the website, not my limited memory from talk about town:

Lots more detail here --- https://www.gazettenet.com/Profile-of-Judy-Herrell-26938772

Here's the line at the original:
Judy-Herrell-hg-080219-ph24
 

Nancy Hummel

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Rotating the flat skis to point downhill, or to point in the new direction. It's a shame that we teach that to beginners. It gets deeply embedded. Its very hard to eliminate.

Purge the Pivot.
I disagree. Leg rotation is a necessary skill as is edging.
Using the right amount of each is the key.
 

Nancy Hummel

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This is true. Does edging take a more refined balance than piviot?

Both edging and leg rotation require functional fore/aft balance. Skiing in the back seat precludes effective edge release.

It is important that skiers learn to use the appropriate edge angle for the speed/terrain etc.

I see many intermediates who can tip and ride their skis but fall apart in bumps because they lack the ability to vary the edge angle to what is necessary for the speed they want to go.
 

LiquidFeet

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Both edging and leg rotation require functional fore/aft balance. Skiing in the back seat precludes effective edge release.

It is important that skiers learn to use the appropriate edge angle for the speed/terrain etc.

I see many intermediates who can tip and ride their skis but fall apart in bumps because they lack the ability to vary the edge angle to what is necessary for the speed they want to go.
Yes bump skiing requires pivoting the skis. I was addressing railroad tracks in that post.

It is a shame, and I'll stand by this, that we don't teach skiers to tip skis onto new edges before applying manual rotation to them. This does not mean I am promoting teaching beginners and novices to do railroad tracks. Far from it. Nor does it mean I think we should avoid teaching intermediates to do pivot slips. We should.

You folks disagree?
 

Nancy Hummel

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Yes bump skiing requires pivoting the skis. I was addressing railroad tracks in that post.

It is a shame, and I'll stand by this, that we don't teach skiers to tip skis onto new edges before applying manual rotation to them. This does not mean I am promoting teaching beginners and novices to do railroad tracks. Far from it. Nor does it mean I think we should avoid teaching intermediates to do pivot slips. We should.

You folks disagree?

I teach leg rotation and edging skills in beginner lessons. Teaching various ways to flatten the skis develops the ability to do the opposite.

Many intermediates have no idea how to turn their legs so I believe in developing that skill much earlier.

In my experience, relying on tipping the skis to initiate turning is a scary movement that sends people riding the edges across the hill at a rate of speed that they are not willing to do.
 

oldschoolskier

Making fresh tracks
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Ontario Canada
Yes bump skiing requires pivoting the skis. I was addressing railroad tracks in that post.

It is a shame, and I'll stand by this, that we don't teach skiers to tip skis onto new edges before applying manual rotation to them. This does not mean I am promoting teaching beginners and novices to do railroad tracks. Far from it. Nor does it mean I think we should avoid teaching intermediates to do pivot slips. We should.

You folks disagree?
LF, you are on the right track, modern equipment allows rapid progression with little skill (the equipment does most of it :ogbiggrin: making skiers look like heros). Down side is that they fail to learn the skill set required when skiing gets difficult (be it conditions, terrain, circumstances etc regardless the level). Teach the skills, they are all required at some point, question just becomes when.

The old days required you learn them to be able to progress and hopefully master them enough to ski like a hero ogwink
 
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LiquidFeet

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In my experience, relying on tipping the skis to initiate turning is a scary movement that sends people riding the edges across the hill at a rate of speed that they are not willing to do.
Agree. That's not what I'm talking about. Riding the edges down the hill is dangerous for beginners. I'm surprised you think that's what I'm promoting.
 
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