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World Cup & Ski Brand - Does it simply boil down to the manufacturers budget?

CO Freeskier

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Rossi, Head, Atomic are the points leaders so far this year and have been for quite a few years...is it simply a function of who has the biggest budget allocated for their WC race program? If all the top skiers are essentially skiing on a custom ski (that meets WC specs) it would seem that most manufacturers could make a ski that a Hirscher or Shiffrin could win on, right? So is it simply a matter of budget...Head allocates 50x the budget of smaller WC players so they can pay and support a Pinterault significantly more than say Volkl could, as well as, get their skis on more WC athletes in general versus a Nordica, Salomon, Dynastar, Stockli, Volkl, etc.

I would assume that Fischer perhaps has made the decision to cut funding at the World Cup level given that you don’t see many WC racers on them or on the podium? Seem like they were much more common in years past.

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pliny the elder

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Any of the major players are capable of building equipment that can perform at the highest level. Sometimes a brand will have an advantage (or disadvantage) in a particular discipline or product category for a bit but it is cyclical.
The best example in recent years would be Rossignol. Under Quicksilver, they basically got out of racing at the highest levels and focused on consumer products. They lost several high profile athletes and faded.
The launch of the Hero campaign and products was a public declaration that they intended to reassert themselves to the top of the racing world as it is a big part of the brand's backstory.
Head has made it quite clear that they will spend whatever it takes, although it doesn't seem to translate into market share, at least here in the US.

pliny the elder
 

NE1

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Although tied indirectly to budget, success is also dependent upon who you can get on your skis.
 

Muleski

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We've had a number of threads that include discussion on this topic in the past. The headline is that to play the game, you need to have the resources to put the best under contract. Or, perhaps you get lucky with an up and comer and are able to hold onto them for a few years. Contacts tend to run two or four years for the most part and typically end after the OWG's, or perhaps the FIS World Champs.

The business case for contracting the best, and devoting the money to research, develop, test, and support.....leading to trying to sell and distribute, varies by geography and company. I have not seen any market research in the last 7-8 years, but up until then it showed that in North America, WC race results had almost no impact on the sale of skis to the general public. In places like Europe, it is quite different. Hirscher, and Mikaela sell a lot of Atomic skis in Austria.

Of course, what kinds of skis do these WC skiers influence? Well, I can assure you that in the kids race ski market, there are an awful lot of little girls who just "must" have Atomic skis {Let alone LEKI poles, preferably pink ones} because of MS. In the big clubs, where the coaches know what they are doing and where they may actually have an equipment coach or two, a bit more goes into the process.

You have very odd factors, like the situation with Johan Eliasch, the CEO of Head, who is so driven to have the best stable of WC racers, and so driven to have the biggest and best "team." Reminds you of an F1 team. Eliasch is committed to the best products, the best contracts, the best techs.....the best and damn the cost. Look at the people on Head. Do you thing a single one of them passed up an offer of more money to be on something else? I would say: "No chance."

To get a presence on the WC, a real one, yes, you absolutely need the horses. Some companies can't begin to play with Head, in terms of attracting big numbers. Some have big budgets, and a nice stable. Others can afford very small numbers. Maybe a few good contracts. I won't go through every name, but Fischer makes GREAT products, but does not pay big money. Nordica is much the same. So they have very few big names, like Dom Paris. Volkl? They have an inexpensive up and comer in Alice Robinson. It's more about the product and the time being spent to get it right. Now Atomic? check out the Austrians, and others. Lots of them. Also the speed specialists. Rossi? They have a LOT of good skiers, and a lot of younger ones being provided with very good product, which critical as you're moving up. They also have a great boot.

An interesting one to have followed is Bode. When he broke onto the WC, he was on K2 with an orange Tecnica boot. As his career took off, he was one of the early guys in a Dobermann Boot, on Fischer skis, Marker bindings. He started to really show his jets on that set up. Boots dialed the right way made a huge difference. THEN... time for his first big contract. Rossi. Why? They paid him $2Mil a year! I hear he did not even test the skis or boots. "Fugured they can built what he needs. Or copy the old stuff."

Bode can probably make anything work. Rossi worked. Rossi contract was up, and he went straight to Atomic. He figured that they would be just fine, as he was migrating more to a GS/SG/DH guy. Not as much SL focus. BUT, guess what, Atomic outbid everybody else. I have heard that whatever testing took place was after he had a contract ready to execute on his agent's desk. It was not trying product first. And as the overall WC winner, they worked.

WE know that he ended with Head. Johan Eliasch slammed the market shut, essentially. Made it clear that he was making the best offer in the business, and that he would not be outbid. And he wasn't. Head built Bode whatever he needed and wanted. Very demanding athlete at that point.

Hirscher? Highest paid in the sport. The face of Atomic. Great business relationship. Now, I will not get into it, but at least one season the only piece of Atomic product that he used were SG skis. Not that he skied much SG. SL, GS, Bindings/Plates, Boots.......All nice red cosmetics. And all highly dialed in {he and his father were incredible at getting it right} to produce his very best skiing. And those photos, that video coverage, TV sold a LOT of Atomic product. Some of which he never once pushed out of a WC starting gate.

It's a very quirky business. Often has close to zero to do with the best product. And there is a serious pecking order in terms of who gets what, or who inherits who's skis. It can get ugly. Pintu left Dynastar/Lange and we know that his initial season or two was ugly on Head. He was under the impression that he would have access to the exact same GS setup as then "Mr. GS, Ted Ligety." And when TL found out, he was, shall we say, pretty worked up. However, Pintu was earning a fortune with his new deal. In time, it got worked out. The skis were largely the same. Nothing like you could buy. Ted probably had 4-5 different GS sidecuts, let alone layups...and his proprietary plates. I am told that a lot of this got into both TL and AP's heads. No pun intended. Now years later, Pintu is the man.

We won't get into absolute equipment nuts like HK and his father....

Stockli? Not a lot of money to pay people. Typically one or so a big guns a season. I think they learned their lesson and still have the scars for the Tina Maze years. Of course she and her team bled everybody in the sport for every buck they could.

Long answer, money talks. Loudly.
 
Last edited:

Rostapher

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This reads like a VH1 Behind the Music of Ski Racing (I would watch that!) This is incredible stuff @Muleski. Thank you for all your insights into the “backstage” machinations of the sport!

We've had a number of threads that include discussion on this topic in the past. The headline is that to play the game, you need to have the resources to put the best under contract. Or, perhaps you get lucky with an up and comer and are able to hold onto them for a few years. Contacts tend to run two or four years for the most part and typically end after the OWG's, or perhaps the FIS World Champs.

The business case for contracting the best, and devoting the money to research, develop, test, and support.....leading to trying to sell and distribute, varies by geography and company. I have not se any market research in the last 7-8 years, but up until then it showed that in North America, WC race results had almost no impact on the sale of skis to the general public. In places like Europe, it is quite different. Hirscher, and Mikaela sell a lot of Atomic skis in Austria.

Of course, what kinds of skis do these WC skiers influence? Well, I can assure you that in the kids race ski market, there are an awful lot of little girls who just "must" have Atomic skis {Let alone LEKI poles, preferably pink ones} because of MS. In the big clubs, where the coaches know what they are doing and where they may actually have an equipment coach or two, a bit more goes into the process.

You have very odd factors, like the situation with Johan Eliasch, the CEO of Head, who is so driven to have the best stable of WC racers, and so driven to have the biggest and best "team." Reminds you of an F1 team. Eliasch is committed to the best products, the best contracts, the best techs.....the best and damn the cost. Look at the people on Head. Do you thing a single one of them passed up an offer of more money to be on something else? I would say: "No chance."

To get a presence on the WC, a real one, yes, you absolutely need the horses. Some companies can't begin to play with Head, in terms of attracting big numbers. Some have big budgets, and a nice stable. Others can afford very small numbers. Maybe a few good contracts. I won't go through every name, but Fischer makes GREAT products, but does not pay big money. Nordica is much the same. So they have very few big names, like Dom Paris. Völkl? They have an inexpensive up and comer in Alice Robinson. It's more about the product and rh time being spent to get it right. Now Atomic? check out the Austrians, and others. The speed specialists. Rossi? They have a LOT of good skiers, and a lot of younger ones being provided with very good product. They also have a great boot.

An interesting one to have followed is Bode. When he broke onto the WC, he was on K2 with an orange Tecnica boot. As his career took off, he was one of the early guys in a Dobermann Boot, on Fischer skis, Marker bindings. He started to really show his jets on that set up. Boots dialed the right way Ade a huge difference. THEN... time for his first big contract. Rossi. Why? They paid him $2Mil a year! I hear he did not even test the skis or boots. "Fugured they can built what he needs. Or copy the old stuff."

Bode can probably make anything work. Rossi worked. Rossi contract was up, and he went straight to Atomic. He figured that they would be just fine, as he was migrating more to a GS/SG/DH guy. Not as much SL focus. BUT, guess what, Atomic outbid everybody else. I have heard that whatever testing took place was after he had a contract ready to execute on his agent's desk. It was not trying product first.

WE know that he ended with Head. Johan Eliasch slammed the market shut, essentially. Made it clear that he was making the best offer in the business, and that he would not be outbid. And he wasn't. Head built Bode whatever he needed and wanted. Very demanding at that point.

Hirscher? Highest paid in the sport. The face of Atomic. Great business relationship. Now, I will not get into it, but at least one season the only piece of Atomic product that he used where SG skis. Not that he skied much SG. SL, GS, Bindings/Plates, Boots.......All nice red cosmetics. And all highly dialed in {he and his father were incredible at getting it right} to produce his very best skiing. And those photos, that video coverage, TV sold a LOT of Atomic product. Some of which never once pushed out of a WC starting gate.

It's a very quirky business. Often has close to zero to do with the best product. And there is a serious pecking order in terms of who gets what, or who inherits who's skis. It can get ugly. Pintu left Dynastar/Lange and we know that his initial season or two was ugly on Head. He was under the impression that he would have access to the exact same GS setup as then "Mr. GS, Ted Ligety." And when TL found out, he was shall we say pretty worked up. However, Pintu was earning a fortune with his new deal. In time, it got worked out. The skis were largely the same. Nothing like you could buy. Ted probably had 4-5 different GS sidecuts, let alone layups...and his proprietary plates. I am told that a lot of this got into both TL and AP's heads. No pun intended.

We won't get into absolute equipment nuts like HK and his father....

Stöckli? Not a lot of money to pay people. Typically one or so a big guns a season. I think they learned their lesson and still have the scars for the Tina Maze years. Of course she and her team bled everybody in the sport for every buck they could.

Long answer, money talks. Loudly.
 

Ivan

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We've had a number of threads that include discussion on this topic in the past. The headline is that to play the game, you need to have the resources to put the best under contract. Or, perhaps you get lucky with an up and comer and are able to hold onto them for a few years. Contacts tend to run two or four years for the most part and typically end after the OWG's, or perhaps the FIS World Champs.

The business case for contracting the best, and devoting the money to research, develop, test, and support.....leading to trying to sell and distribute, varies by geography and company. I have not seen any market research in the last 7-8 years, but up until then it showed that in North America, WC race results had almost no impact on the sale of skis to the general public. In places like Europe, it is quite different. Hirscher, and Mikaela sell a lot of Atomic skis in Austria.

Of course, what kinds of skis do these WC skiers influence? Well, I can assure you that in the kids race ski market, there are an awful lot of little girls who just "must" have Atomic skis {Let alone LEKI poles, preferably pink ones} because of MS. In the big clubs, where the coaches know what they are doing and where they may actually have an equipment coach or two, a bit more goes into the process.

You have very odd factors, like the situation with Johan Eliasch, the CEO of Head, who is so driven to have the best stable of WC racers, and so driven to have the biggest and best "team." Reminds you of an F1 team. Eliasch is committed to the best products, the best contracts, the best techs.....the best and damn the cost. Look at the people on Head. Do you thing a single one of them passed up an offer of more money to be on something else? I would say: "No chance."

To get a presence on the WC, a real one, yes, you absolutely need the horses. Some companies can't begin to play with Head, in terms of attracting big numbers. Some have big budgets, and a nice stable. Others can afford very small numbers. Maybe a few good contracts. I won't go through every name, but Fischer makes GREAT products, but does not pay big money. Nordica is much the same. So they have very few big names, like Dom Paris. Völkl? They have an inexpensive up and comer in Alice Robinson. It's more about the product and the time being spent to get it right. Now Atomic? check out the Austrians, and others. Lots of them. Also the speed specialists. Rossi? They have a LOT of good skiers, and a lot of younger ones being provided with very good product, which critical as you're moving up. They also have a great boot.

An interesting one to have followed is Bode. When he broke onto the WC, he was on K2 with an orange Tecnica boot. As his career took off, he was one of the early guys in a Dobermann Boot, on Fischer skis, Marker bindings. He started to really show his jets on that set up. Boots dialed the right way made a huge difference. THEN... time for his first big contract. Rossi. Why? They paid him $2Mil a year! I hear he did not even test the skis or boots. "Fugured they can built what he needs. Or copy the old stuff."

Bode can probably make anything work. Rossi worked. Rossi contract was up, and he went straight to Atomic. He figured that they would be just fine, as he was migrating more to a GS/SG/DH guy. Not as much SL focus. BUT, guess what, Atomic outbid everybody else. I have heard that whatever testing took place was after he had a contract ready to execute on his agent's desk. It was not trying product first. And as the overall WC winner, they worked.

WE know that he ended with Head. Johan Eliasch slammed the market shut, essentially. Made it clear that he was making the best offer in the business, and that he would not be outbid. And he wasn't. Head built Bode whatever he needed and wanted. Very demanding athlete at that point.

Hirscher? Highest paid in the sport. The face of Atomic. Great business relationship. Now, I will not get into it, but at least one season the only piece of Atomic product that he used were SG skis. Not that he skied much SG. SL, GS, Bindings/Plates, Boots.......All nice red cosmetics. And all highly dialed in {he and his father were incredible at getting it right} to produce his very best skiing. And those photos, that video coverage, TV sold a LOT of Atomic product. Some of which he never once pushed out of a WC starting gate.

It's a very quirky business. Often has close to zero to do with the best product. And there is a serious pecking order in terms of who gets what, or who inherits who's skis. It can get ugly. Pintu left Dynastar/Lange and we know that his initial season or two was ugly on Head. He was under the impression that he would have access to the exact same GS setup as then "Mr. GS, Ted Ligety." And when TL found out, he was, shall we say, pretty worked up. However, Pintu was earning a fortune with his new deal. In time, it got worked out. The skis were largely the same. Nothing like you could buy. Ted probably had 4-5 different GS sidecuts, let alone layups...and his proprietary plates. I am told that a lot of this got into both TL and AP's heads. No pun intended. Now years later, Pintu is the man.

We won't get into absolute equipment nuts like HK and his father....

Stöckli? Not a lot of money to pay people. Typically one or so a big guns a season. I think they learned their lesson and still have the scars for the Tina Maze years. Of course she and her team bled everybody in the sport for every buck they could.

Long answer, money talks. Loudly.
Wholeheartedly agree with @Rostapher. Thank you for your insights @Muleski, they are always great to read!
 

ejj

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This is pretty spot-on. The athlete takes a nice paying contract with a decent program. The program is the individual support that they will receive. I.e. Who is the equipment tech? Are they shared with other athletes? What sort of equipment testing and prep are supported? All of this means budget.
 

bbbradley

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I remember when Head skis were rental shop fodder, nothing more, and there wasn't a serious skier that would be caught dead on them, other than for a "I can beat you on rental shops skis!" bet. Much like Nike in golf equipment, they hooked up with a solid athlete and invested money into the game to make the market.
 

Muleski

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I remember when Head skis were rental shop fodder, nothing more, and there wasn't a serious skier that would be caught dead on them, other than for a "I can beat you on rental shops skis!" bet. Much like Nike in golf equipment, they hooked up with a solid athlete and invested money into the game to make the market.

Well, it depends on how far back in history you want to go. I’ll skip the earliest days. My dad was the CEO of an adhesives company that made the material used in about 85% of the laminated core race skis of the 60’s, and then a big market share of the epoxy used.

The Head Vector Comp, later name changed to the Head Comp was actually a very good race ski. In GS, and DH. SL....not so much. Wood core, metal laminate. Remember the yellow bases?

Howard Head was slow to react to the industry, particularly race skis evolving to fiberglass. He was not alone. The best SL ski if the mid-sixties was a wooden SL made by Kastle. It had cool yellow bases...and still had screw in edges!

As skis like the Rossi Strato, Dynamic VR17, the Kneissel White Star all began to doninate, Head needed a fiberglass ski. This was around 1970.

Ever the engineer, he found his way to Durafiber, the company who had completely revolutionized pole vaulting. Totally changed that sport.

The Head XR-1 was born. They were a pretty revolutionary in design and at least in my experience were every bit the SL ski that the Strato and Dynamic of the day were. And I am talking about true race stock of the day. The XR-1’s were made in small numbers and cost dearly. I have a friend who was on the USST at the time, early 70’s and he was great enough to give me three pair. He was primarily a speed skier, on Dynamic.

I think that anybody who raced on the XR-1 would speed VERY highly of the ski. I won’t get into the design details. They looked fast and skied fast. Mine were all mounted with the very elusive red Look Nevada’s.

I gave them to my brother, as another buddy’s older brother took this new type of job as a “race rep” with Rossignol, and I got access to their skis.

As I recall, Howard Head had a falling out with Durafiber, and the XR-1’s then became made perhaps in Austria?

Howard Head, at that time had also invented the Prince tennis racket. I think his attention went there. He then ended up selling Head, I think to AMF? And AMF was aquired by a PE firm in a takeover.

The Head that we know today began to emerge after CEO Johan Eliasch aquired the brand, all of the assets, and began to pour money into it. Complete rebirth and transformation. Skis, boots, bindings.

While killing it in the tennis business!

And, yeah, Eliasch likes his athletes!
 

Muleski

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This is pretty spot-on. The athlete takes a nice paying contract with a decent program. The program is the individual support that they will receive. I.e. Who is the equipment tech? Are they shared with other athletes? What sort of equipment testing and prep are supported? All of this means budget.

A number of years ago a USST skier was nearing the end of his career. He had been on a very good setup for him, and truth be told the overall level of support was probably BETTER than he really should have had.

His contract was expiring and the company made some changes in what he’d need to do to earn the same money. Results driven. But not bad.

However, they took his own personal tech away, and were going to have him be part of their pool, or the USST pool. Can’t recall which. Key point, HIS personal tech was gone.

So his agent went looking for a deal. Found ONE company who would continue to provide him with a tech. His former tech. That was more important than ANYTHING else. There was no testing of product. None. The company had other guys, who skied similarly on the skis.

He got his tech, and never had another decent result. Skied that season, most of the next and retired.

Not sure if the skis were really a factor. Assume they may have been.

Money and the “support” seem to always drive the bus. Generally money!
 

migdriver

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Muleski- wow, that walk through Head history prompted a a flood of memories.
I raced in college on Head Comps... GS and Sl. The GS as I recall was also a great ski to freeski on also: ice, powder , whatever. I had the binding set up of the day Look Nevada toe and a Marker long thong turntable.
At the time (long before USSA) we raced under US Eastern Amateur Ski Assoc license and on on a good day with a tail wind I was a “B” class racer... so, mediocre in truth, but good enough to know those Head Comp GS were pretty sweet.
Though you don’t mention it , I also remember getting my hands on early Lange Comp boots at some point . Like the notion of metal skis; plastic race boots were a revolutionary concept after years of wearing cable tie leather hand made Molitor boots. In truth during that period it often felt like we were doing the beta testing of new products ( Henke buckle boots anyone? “ Are you still lacing while others are racing” i believe was the marketing tag line ) . The plastic on both pairs of Langes went soft after a few weeks / you could press the plastic in and out....fortunately, Lange replaced them . Lange improved them rapidly untill they became a gold standard boot. Gold standard in cold discomfort too I should add
Hot Brands come and go and then come back again. Blizzard wood skis , when I retired my first pr of no name ridged planks with screw in edges and a paint on base, followed by wood Kastle.( we ignorant southern New Englanders called them Castle) on then graduated to Head Comps, to Dynamic - my first “ glass” skis- Rossi ROC , Atomic red sleds... etc etc. And now it’s full circle: back on Head FIS Sl and GS for the increasingly rare masters race.
I know you were responding to the a sponsorship themed question but I couldn’t resist responding to the nostalgia it elicited in me.
 

Muleski

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“Bled everyone dry” may be a touch strong. BUT, in general she and her long time boyfriend, who was originally her coach, Andrea Massi created a team of one that cost a real fortune operate.

My understanding is that the Slovenian federation was never operating with a big budget. It’s a tiny country. So when she was identified as a potential star on the WC at 15, they ramped things up. Eventually it lead to Team aMaze, and as Tina began to win medals, WC’s, leading to her record overall WC year, being the dominant female skier in the sport....it seemed to many that the entire Slovenian budget was going to her team.

Keep in mind there is a nordic team as well.

Granted, she has sponsors like Milka and Fila. Who knows how much they paid. The had great material from Stockli and Lange but neither company has historically be among the truly big spenders. Maybe they did with her, and no longer do. I don’t know a thing about her deal.

i do know that Massi kept bringing on “the best” to staff her team. At big expense. I have heard that they just paid it.

And I know others who were part of the Slovenian team who were very clear that their budgets were deeply cut and non existent because “it all goes to Maze.” Trying to ski on the EC to get to the WC was evidently a

I have also heard that it took a few years to rebound from this after her retirement. There were years when skiers quit the team because they simply could not fund an adequate program. Even things like travel, lodging.

These one skier super teams are not cheap. In some cases the athlete, and his/her sponsors fund a great deal of if. In other cases, the athlete and his/her “handlers” just demand more and more from their national team. We have had it both ways on the USST.

@Primoz might have some better insight on this, as far as Maze is concerned.

Seems like they are in a very good place these days. That would be Slovenia...have no clue about Maze/Massi.
 

CascadeConcrete

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Hirscher? Highest paid in the sport. The face of Atomic. Great business relationship. Now, I will not get into it, but at least one season the only piece of Atomic product that he used were SG skis. Not that he skied much SG. SL, GS, Bindings/Plates, Boots.......All nice red cosmetics. And all highly dialed in {he and his father were incredible at getting it right} to produce his very best skiing.

If you don't mind, is there any chance you would get into it? Atomic claims lots of development work with Hirscher in their Redster marketing, and with his status, you'd think they'd bend over backwards to build anything he wanted. If anything, I'd expect other guys a few steps down the totem pole to be the ones who had to discretely ski off-brand stuff because Atomic was too busy trying to make Hirscher happy to worry about them.
 

Swede

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It is a badly kept secret that things aren’t always what they look like on the WC. Sometimes so bad, that they don’t even look like what they’re supposed to look like.
 

Rudi Riet

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It is a badly kept secret that things aren’t always what they look like on the WC. Sometimes so bad, that they don’t even look like what they’re supposed to look like.

The most glaringly obvious example for Hirscher "back in the day" was his Marker piston plates and bindings that were painted to look more like something Atomic would make. Atomic eventually made their own version of the binding (if not the plate) that's now used by most of their tech athletes (the speed folk still use the X/NEOX based binding).

And it still happens within brands. Anybody keeping an eagle eye on Monday's women's SG at Garmisch may have noticed Marta Bassino (who races on Salomon) competing on a "reskinned" Atomic Redster SG DoubleDeck ski. It's been re-branded to look like a Salomon ski - even down to having the Atomic logo cut out of the base at the tip of the ski and a Salomon logo grafted into its place - but it's the old Atomic race ski through and through. You'll see this in a lot of Salomon racing skis - and even some of the Atomic race skis using the older DoubleDeck material (USST recently posted a picture with Shiffrin standing next to GS skis that have the current Redster graphics but were clearly older DoubleDeck skis).
 

Muleski

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If you don't mind, is there any chance you would get into it? Atomic claims lots of development work with Hirscher in their Redster marketing, and with his status, you'd think they'd bend over backwards to build anything he wanted. If anything, I'd expect other guys a few steps down the totem pole to be the ones who had to discretely ski off-brand stuff because Atomic was too busy trying to make Hirscher happy to worry about them.

I CAN'T get into it. Not on an internet forum. Not a chance. For the most part, none of us know each other, and as I have posted before, I have family members in this sport, and I just can't betray their confidence or have anybody in the business doubting that they can be trusted because of what I'm posting. Nor do I ned to have people guessing who I am, blah-blah. So, sorry, there are some things that I can't post.

However, with respect to Marcel, I can share this.In the fall of 2013 or 2014 {can't recall which} I was able to watch him working to get his boot setup ready, in the early fall. Now, some people know that his brother is a boot tech for Atomic. He has never worked with Marcel, in terms of supporting him. Ferdinand, Marcel's father {and duly his real coach}, knows a ton about boots. And of course the sheer number of boots that are sitting on the shelf at home, with various tweeks {all recorded in detail} is absolutely legendary. Dozens up dozens. Well over 50.

This was about the time that the news had leaked out that Marcel was skiing on a blacked out Marker Piston Plate, and Marker 30.0 EPS bindings that they were doctoring up with model paint.

He was in was different boots, and each of them were being evaluated and were having A LOT of work done two them. Someone close to me, and to he and his support group got a close look at the boots...as in held them in his hand and looked them over. This guys "knows boots." Let's say that although red, at least that day, neither was an Atomic boot. What happened as the season unfolded, I don't know. Suffice it to say that he was not skiing in the first version of the Redster, and that any "lore" about Atomic designing the boot for him is pretty hard for anybody to believe. As I have posted before, that first boot just flatlined with the vast majority of Atomic WC skiers. Women, as well.

His skis....I am clearly not going there. Somebody else can chime in.

Marcel is a tremendous spokesman for Atomic. Every top Austrian {like the very best} is going to be "on Atomic" at least in the eyes of the public, as Atomic IS Austrian skiing. Now at the same time, the best men's technical skier in recent history, who is very dialed into equipment, was going to be on and in exactly what worked for him. No less. So, he continues to be a great spokesman, a great marketeer, and it's been a good relationship. He has been paid a fortune by Atomic, and they have been pleased. They continue to be. I presume that he now does ski on Atomic! Boots, too, I'd bet. So all good.

Remember last year when the fandom here was "shocked" that Alexis Pinturault's white boots were NOT built by Head, but rather by the other white boot company, whose sister blue boots produced great success for him. They had nice Head graphics, had a great deal of cosmetic work done, but when still photos were taken in the right light, pretty obvious what they are.

It's nothing new. Not at all. The number of male athletes who have been in boots poured in Lange or Dobermann molds, using material of other colors, has been pretty significant over the years.

Skis? Less now that a couple of decades ago, but nothing new. Years ago I was given a pair of "Dynastar" SL skis, and before long the paint job began to wear off and display a well sanded bright yellow color, with listing black graphics. Black bases had obviously be hand cut to fit in and epoxy the Dynastar logo, and remove a bigger one. I have no clue who they had belonged to.

IMO, the fast majority of the material on the WC IS what it's portrayed to be. Not always.

Can't add another thing.
 

Muleski

So much better than a pro
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The most glaringly obvious example for Hirscher "back in the day" was his Marker piston plates and bindings that were painted to look more like something Atomic would make. Atomic eventually made their own version of the binding (if not the plate) that's now used by most of their tech athletes (the speed folk still use the X/NEOX based binding).

And it still happens within brands. Anybody keeping an eagle eye on Monday's women's SG at Garmisch may have noticed Marta Bassino (who races on Salomon) competing on a "reskinned" Atomic Redster SG DoubleDeck ski. It's been re-branded to look like a Salomon ski - even down to having the Atomic logo cut out of the base at the tip of the ski and a Salomon logo grafted into its place - but it's the old Atomic race ski through and through. You'll see this in a lot of Salomon racing skis - and even some of the Atomic race skis using the older DoubleDeck material (USST recently posted a picture with Shiffrin standing next to GS skis that have the current Redster graphics but were clearly older DoubleDeck skis).


AND, years ago some WC skiers were racing on flat skis, with the double deck "look" painted on them, to give the illusion that they were racing on the double deck skis. My son had two friends who were pretty high up on the Atomic pecking order, got a lot of skis passed to them from the WC group and a lot had been "altered cosmetically."

Had not noticed that with Bassino. Good catch, Rudi!!
 

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