23/24 Ikon Pass?

[TheArchitect]

I think I've gotten to a point where, as an Ikon skier, I'm actually rooting for the cost of an Ikon pass to increase further and that cost gap to the Epic pass to continue to widen. All things being equal, I'd rather keep more of my money in my pocket, but if I'm faced with a choice of saving money on a pass and having crowding issues detract from my skiing experience, or paying several hundred dollars a year more and having a less crowded, better overall experience on better mountains, I 100% will choose spending the extra cash.

I have a theory but perhaps it's just wishful thinking. From what I've heard anecdotally last year Epic resorts were kind of a shitshow and pissed off a lot of people. I was thinking that perhaps some of the crowding this year at Ikon resorts was due to Epic passholders who had jumped ship hoping for a better experience on Ikon and that maybe they'll go back to cheaper Epic passes next year. Like I said, wishful thinking...

 

[raytseng]

Wait, so my 2 going on 3 year old would cost more if we went with a base+ over the full IKON pass by over double????

Most places have that really young kids ski free anyways. Really, Alterra wanted that extra $$$ from the 2 yo skier demographic this past year?

Where exactly are you planning to ski. Many resorts esp the alterra owned ones under iKon are free for 4 and under. This has always been priced even when the pass launched.
They just have to put the prices because it's a few partners that required it and they need to pay that cut. Most of those are exactly the base plus premium partners.

It may turn out to be a bit of misplaced outrage if your actual price you need to pay for your children is $0 for the exact destinations you are planning. (Or is it extreme outrage if you pay for ikon pass but you only go to a free resort).

It's a bit on the parent to do some research and make the best decision based on their plans. They can't read minds to know if you plan to go to a resort where kids are free or a premium resort where they charge.

I do think you are right, there probably is a problem with the baseplus pricing-the steps are too small; and for child and youth definitely a glitch as it is more expensive than the full pass. I would bet it will be clarified or corrected by sale date.

The full pass for 4 and under is only $149.

 

[Bozzenhagen]

I only have 13 days on my ikon pass this season out of 104 days. New low. I used to love Copper.

Ikon this year really sucks. Well, actually, just my experience with Copper.

 

[crosscountry]

I only have 13 days on my ikon pass this season out of 104 days. New low. I used to love Copper.

Ikon this year really sucks. Well, actually, just my experience with Copper.

What's the issue with Copper? Crowds?

 

[fatbob]

I have a theory but perhaps it's just wishful thinking. From what I've heard anecdotally last year Epic resorts were kind of a shitshow and pissed off a lot of people. I was thinking that perhaps some of the crowding this year at Ikon resorts was due to Epic passholders who had jumped ship hoping for a better experience on Ikon and that maybe they'll go back to cheaper Epic passes next year. Like I said, wishful thinking...

Don't forget in a lot of places Ikon and Epic don't directly substitute for each other. Ikon dominates in SLC, Epic in Eagle/Summit etc. No point having a season lease in SL Tahoe and only an Ikon pass really etc. You get what you get in a given year. I skied Heavenly way more than I intended because Kirkwood access was so variable.

 

[COSkier87]

#EarnYourTurns

 

[crosscountry]

Don't forget in a lot of places Ikon and Epic don't directly substitute for each other. Ikon dominates in SLC, Epic in Eagle/Summit etc. No point having a season lease in SL Tahoe and only an Ikon pass really etc. You get what you get in a given year. I skied Heavenly way more than I intended because Kirkwood access was so variable.

Epic used to "dominate" Summit county, but only when A-basin was part of Vail empire.

Now, not so much. It's Copper vs Breck+Keystone. And limited access to A-basin vs Vail+BC. Epic still have numeric advantage on paper. But in practicality, a lot of people are indifferent to the two. It's more of where they prefer to ski and what their friends have.

 

[raytseng]

I have a theory but perhaps it's just wishful thinking. From what I've heard anecdotally last year Epic resorts were kind of a shitshow and pissed off a lot of people. I was thinking that perhaps some of the crowding this year at Ikon resorts was due to Epic passholders who had jumped ship hoping for a better experience on Ikon and that maybe they'll go back to cheaper Epic passes next year. Like I said, wishful thinking...

I am also a subscriber to the even/odd thing and the pendulum effect. You would think it would reach a steady state, but as the herd keeps chasing a better experience they keep ending up on the wrong side of swing. Since it's a annual decision there isn't as many chances to adjust and settle down.
Then last season (21/22) the epicpasses were at rollback pricing, and this season pricing returned to regular. So this was a new impulse that started up the pendulum swing again.

On the point of choice, even if the majority of potential skiers are set, this is on the margins. But it is all about the margins. Getting just 5% of fencesitters to switch will have huge effects on the ski experience.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

On the point of choice, even if the majority of potential skiers are set, this is on the margins. But it is all about the margins. Getting just 5% of fencesitters to switch will have huge effects on the ski experience.

It also has a huge effect on where the 2 week year skiers go. I buy the Ikon because it works for me at the most California resorts: Big Bear until after the New Year, Tahoe until late spring, and then Mammoth. If we are traveling for a trip, we choose from the Ikon resorts on our pass. Bingo, Ikon gets our vacation $$ because we spend considerably more on vacations. So yes, getting just 5% to switch is huge because those are more likely to be vacation than local resort oriented.

 

[fatbob]

But surely the reason Palisades sux is the number of locals , new WFH locals and Bay Area types who can afford to weekend warrior every weekend+? The tourist Ikon numbers probably don't put much of a dent in that. By contrast Kirkwood, which has its fans, is just a bit tricksier to access plus an alternate local play on the pass so doesn't get as bad on the lifts (parking a bit more problematic but not ususally til after 9am due to access issue)

Maybe Alterra need to buy up Sugarbowl or Rose to spread the pain?

 

[Andy Mink]

or Rose

Nah, we're good.

 

[SBrown]

I have a theory but perhaps it's just wishful thinking. From what I've heard anecdotally last year Epic resorts were kind of a shitshow and pissed off a lot of people. I was thinking that perhaps some of the crowding this year at Ikon resorts was due to Epic passholders who had jumped ship hoping for a better experience on Ikon and that maybe they'll go back to cheaper Epic passes next year. Like I said, wishful thinking...

I agree ... I was really worried because of how bad Epic was last season, and anecdotally had heard that many were switching to Ikon. Sure enough, there has been an uptick at Copper.

That said, I am not blaming the multipasses, just the absolute ineptitude of VR last season. People would have switched from a plain ol' Vail pass to a Copper pass, all things being equal! Colorado has seen a lot of population growth, and it's mostly higher-income outdoorsy types. (In turn, lower-income types are leaving, due to the increase in cost of living.) Same thing is happening in Utah. But we can blame the multipasses!

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

I think we can also blame Covid. People re-discovered the great outdoors since cities were locked down. I know Big Bear became stupid busy during Covid and - frankly- it continued. WFH and flexible work schedules have made every weekend a 4 day weekend. Any ski resort, within reasonable distance of large urban areas, has a new normal.

 

[Andy Mink]

I think we can also blame Covid. People re-discovered the great outdoors since cities were locked down. I know Big Bear became stupid busy during Covid and - frankly- it continued. WFH and flexible work schedules have made every weekend a 4 day weekend. Any ski resort, within reasonable distance of large urban areas, has a new normal.

GET BACK TO WORK!

 

[Bozzenhagen]

What's the issue with Copper? Crowds?

Crowds and parking. I love Copper when it's good. I mean dam it's good when it's good.

It's pretty dense around USSA/USASA nationals and the Dew Tour and such.

Copper just sucks before January as the Ikon bro crowd is dense as it is the first to open between itself, Winter Park, and Eldora. Early season crowds and water injected snow for the racers before opening to the public == lol.

 

[New2]

I just skip the resorts on the mega passes since their lift ticket prices all seem to be the highest. I plan to go back to Grand Targhee which should be $100 or less per day, I'll just need to start selling blood or plasma to help cover the airfare in to Jackson.

You can save a bunch this spring flying to Spokane instead. Schweitzer's spring pass is a phenomenal $199. Or buy a 23/24 pass, ski this spring, then come back again next year: $489 at Silver or 49° North ($639 for both); $399 at Lookout; or $539 at Mt. Spokane (they still haven't said whether they'll operate 4/3 and 4/4, so buyer beware). Lots of ways to get way under $100/day.

I do think you are right, there probably is a problem with the baseplus pricing-the steps are too small; and for child and youth definitely a glitch as it is more expensive than the full pass. I would bet it will be clarified or corrected by sale date.

The full pass for 4 and under is only $149.

Kids' baseplus has been more expensive then kids Ikon ever since baseplus launched. Stuart over at Stormskiing Journal has been calling this out year after year, and still not fixed. https://www.stormskiing.com/

 

[SBrown]

Crowds and parking. I love Copper when it's good. I mean dam it's good when it's good.

It's pretty dense around USSA/USASA nationals and the Dew Tour and such.

Copper just sucks before January as the Ikon bro crowd is dense as it is the first to open between itself, Winter Park, and Eldora. Early season crowds and water injected snow for the racers before opening to the public == lol.

Yes, the parking (really only on Saturdays) has become a major major problem. As in, backing up a federal Interstate highway for miles, clogging up any open artery around the ski area ... Recently someone's wedding was delayed an hour because they couldn't get the food from center to east village due to the gridlock.

 

[Jerez]

Pretty sure kid pricing is on purpose to drive folks to the full pass.

Either way, the cost of a season pass at most single resorts used to be as much or a lot more than a multi-resort product is now, not even accounting for inflation. 'Course day tickets were much cheaper.

And then there was the risk. With a multi pass, if your home hill is skunked you can still travel.

We all hate the crowds, but it wasn't too long ago we had multiple threads bemoaning the death of skiing and how to bring skier numbers up.

 

[Bozzenhagen]

If they can guarantee a near empty wasteland of joy, I will pay 3K a pop for a pass. I think.

 

[Tom K.]

If they can guarantee a near empty wasteland of joy, I will pay 3K a pop for a pass. I think.

I'll second that.